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    (Original post by CombineHarvester)
    No they have a fair point. You can hardly judge whether someone's an apostate or not (a very serious accusation) based on one article or whatever. They could speculate/slander but you can't call someone an apostate simply for not wearing hijab or even entering a beauty pageant.
    Didn't you come to the conclusion that the women in the article isn't Muslim because of what she is doing?
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    (Original post by B-Man.)
    So no-one has claimed she doesn't have the RIGHT to dress as she pleases. For the love of God answer the questions you are presented with and stop inventing your own, perhaps this is why you THINK you are debunking other posters when you are not at all.
    You don't understand do you?

    She has said that she is a muslim and she wants to dress this way. A number of Muslims on this thread have said that she shouldn't be allowed to. As a result of this in their opinion either she should stop dressing that way or she's not a Muslim. This is EXACTLY the same as saying if you want to be seen as a Muslim (as she does) then you don't have the right to dress as you please. Thus a good deal of people on this thread have said she doesn't have the right to dress as she pleases, ignoring the fact they have no right to state whether someone is a Muslim or not and that is it a personal choice.

    Ergo if she wishes to remain a Muslim she must stop her pretentions to being able to dress as she pleases. Which is a ridiculous notion, similar to me suggesting that I won't recognise you as English if you wear a T shirt with one of those horrible deep V necks.
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    Firstly, as long as she says she is a Muslim, she is. What she is doing is not taking her outside the fold of Islam. She is only sinning, not committing shirk.

    However the only reason why Muslims are getting annoyed is because she keeps mentioning she's a Muslim and bringing her religion into it. Had she kept her mouth shut and entered the competition as an Asian, then she would have been treated like previous Asian models and there wouldn't be any media news on here.

    She's deliberately using the name of Islam and saying she's a Muslim in order to stir a media controversy and stand out from the crowd. Think about it, she's already managed to get tons of media headlines about herself. Have we even heard about any of the other contestants?
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    (Original post by B-Man.)
    Didn't you come to the conclusion that the women in the article isn't Muslim because of what she is doing?
    He said 'if'.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    You don't understand do you?

    She has said that she is a muslim and she wants to dress this way. A number of Muslims on this thread have said that she shouldn't be allowed to. As a result of this in their opinion either she should stop dressing that way or she's not a Muslim. This is EXACTLY the same as saying if you want to be seen as a Muslim (as she does) then you don't have the right to dress as you please. Thus a good deal of people on this thread have said she doesn't have the right to dress as she pleases, ignoring the fact they have no right to state whether someone is a Muslim or not and that is it a personal choice.

    Ergo if she wishes to remain a Muslim she must stop her pretentions to being able to dress as she pleases. Which is a ridiculous notion, similar to me suggesting that I won't recognise you as English if you wear a T shirt with one of those horrible deep V necks.
    Stop the strawman's its pathetic. I don't know why people are even taking you seriously considering you just flat out lied in your initial sentence to further your own anti-Muslim agenda.
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    HOW DARE PEOPLE SEND HER HATE MAIL!!!!! She has made her choice so let her continue with it. Don't bully her into changing her mind . IT IS HER LIFE!!!! Whether right or wrong, it is not up to other people to decide for her

    I understand that she is an insulting idea for some Muslims BUT do not define her as a Muslim, instead define her as a person.
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    I would say she's not a true Muslim. Islam promotes modesty, and it's very clear to me that this is a very immodest contest. She will hopefully be punished.
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    (Original post by B-Man.)
    Stop the strawman's its pathetic.
    What strawmans? There are none there. Nice way out of an argument you lost.

    what are you talking about Muslim women do have rights in islam you are clearly ignorant as you no nothing about islam for example Muslim women where given the right to vote ,own property ,the right to inheritance ,right to divorce 1400yrs ago way before women in britian did ect
    I highly doubt the Qur'an included the right to vote for women, considering at the time it was written the concept of democracy was just a failed experiment in one Greek city that was an oligarchic democracy anyways and not a popular one. Whereas most the countries that still implement a restrictive franchise are Muslim countries, for example:

    Lebanon (majority Muslim now): women need to have gone to school to vote, men don't.
    Saudi Arabia: women don't have the vote.
    UAE: Only limited sufferage.
    Afghanistan: Women's voting age higher than mens.
    Kuwait: Only adopted women's suffrage in 2000.

    Etc etc.

    Also women have long held the right to own property and inheritance in the UK, how else do you think we had Queens and wealthy spinsters? There was just a preference on the male line.
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    She is fit. I am definitely mirin.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    What strawmans? There are none there. Nice way out of an argument you lost.
    Are you wrighting this off as someone else you have debunked? :rofl:
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    (Original post by Reml)
    Well it is a contest for whores, and it is quite explicit that Islam demands modesty - i show no sympathy whatsoever.
    I hate to say I agree, but I agree.

    This is exactly the kind of shallow pointless thing Islam is against.

    However, she can do whatever the hell she likes, it's none of my business.

    And I agree as a liberal Muslim, that Islam needs to go through a reformation where we stop all this silly finger pointing. What part of Allah (swt) judges, not you, don't people understand?

    Inshallah, God willing, it'll happen.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    I would say she's not a true Muslim. Islam promotes modesty, and it's very clear to me that this is a very immodest contest. She will hopefully be punished.
    You're not a Muslim just so the OP is aware.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    No I clearly dislike and find sexist numerous elements of Islam, which belong in the Medieval period when the Qur'an was written and not modern day.
    Thanks for reinforcing my statement again.
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    (Original post by CombineHarvester)
    You're not a Muslim just so the OP is aware.
    Correct. (although of course, I could have converted since the post was made)
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    Erm, she isn't a Muslim though.

    Has Allah prohibited her from wearing such clothes? Yes
    Does she believe Allah has allowed her to wear such clothes? Yes

    Ergo, she's just committed Kufrul-Istihaal.

    http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/aqeedah/0038.htm


    Erm. Read the article again. She isn't rallying to make beauty pageants an Islamic practise. Neither has she said that it is halal and considered acceptable within Islam. She has explicitly said that it is a Western thing and that it is against her religion so how can she believe that Allah ordained it? At best that is kufrul-i'raadh and that is almost impossible to avoid as a human being with alleged 'free will'. It's essentially a disbelief borne out of sin and something every Muslim in the world is guilty of given our fallibility. Nevertheless. Is there a distinction between a kaafir like Dawkins who believes in 0% of Islam and a 'kaafir' like her who presumably believes in the existence of a single God, His Prophet, His books, His angels and the afterlife? And how do we know that she hasn't expiated her sins via illness or simply thanking Allah before supper since her pageant which in itself wipes away all her past and future sins? Going by Al-Fath, Al-Imran or certain hadith, I assume it might be just easy to fall into Allah's favour as it is to fall out. Case in point: the prostitute by the wellside who watered the stray or the idol-worshipper who accidentally invoked Allah, As-Samad instead of his idol "Sanam". Both guilty of several types of kufr and absolved of their sins without even repenting. And yet it's not plausible that she is still a Muslim? That Allah's mercy doesn't and won't extend to her?
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    (Original post by B-Man.)
    Are you wrighting this off as someone else you have debunked? :rofl:
    No I'm quite content that you've run out of arguments and you're just dodging the subject. It's ok, we're all wrong sometimes

    Also it's writing.

    For the record I'm not anti-Muslim. I respect the religion, I just think it needs to adapt more fully to the modern world. Some Muslims in this country seem to struggle to deal with the modern world more so than people from other religions, perhaps it's because of the more restrained cultures British Muslims have emmigrated from.
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    What you need to understand is, she's free to do as she likes. She has a right to claim to follow any religion but that doesn't give self-appointed patriarchs any right over her. It doesn't limit her freedoms in any way. Not in THIS country. If people don't like it, they can always head back to Pakistan.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    ...and not from racist idiots like the BNP or EDF.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/12860407

    This kind of nonsense is why Islam really needs to undergo a reformation like Christianity did and strip itself of the conservative sexist elements that seem to be attracted to it. I mean really sending abuse to someone because they want to enter a beauty pageant, what nonsense.
    Well, speaking as a muslim, I know how narrow-minded some muslims can be. Whilst I'm not saying that what she's doing is accepted in Islam (it isn't), no one has a right to tell her she's 'not a muslim' or send her death threats, blah blah, because of it.

    Islam isn't the problem. The current climate in muslim countries is. They need to stop being so backward and look at Islam in perspective of today's world. Immigrants from these countries have backward values, which obviously clash with the incredibly forward (not always in a good way!) values of the 'West'.

    I'm not condoning her behaviour nor condemning it, to each their own I suppose.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    No I'm quite content that you've run out of arguments and you're just dodging the subject. It's ok, we're all wrong sometimes

    Also it's writing.

    For the record I'm not anti-Muslim. I respect the religion, I just think it needs to adapt more fully to the modern world. Some Muslims in this country seem to struggle to deal with the modern world more so than people from other religions, perhaps it's because of the more restrained cultures British Muslims have emmigrated from.
    Beauty pageants and wearing little clothing is hardly 'modern'. Belly dancers in the Middle East used to wear very little clothing and perform for primarily men ~5000 years ago.
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    (Original post by qasman)
    Well, speaking as a muslim, I know how narrow-minded some muslims can be. Whilst I'm not saying that what she's doing is accepted in Islam (it isn't), no one has a right to tell her she's 'not a muslim' or send her death threats, blah blah, because of it.
    This statement is contradictory. If something is against Islam, then you cannot call yourself a Muslim when you knowingly are going against Islam. Therefore, Muslims have every right to tell her she's not a Muslim.


    Person A: Hi, I'm a Muslim. I eat pork, gamble, drink lots of alcohol, take drugs, don't want children, and never go to mosque.
    Person B: You're not a Muslim.
    Person A: WTF YOU HAVE NO RIGHT 2 SAY DAT LOL

    -.-
 
 
 
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