Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

Muslim Model Recieves Abuse For Entering Miss UK watch

Announcements
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Selkarn)
    This statement is contradictory. If something is against Islam, then you cannot call yourself a Muslim when you knowingly are going against Islam. Therefore, Muslims have every right to tell her she's not a Muslim.
    You are not a Muslim and are not knowledgeable on the religion so go away you troll.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by qasman)
    Well, speaking as a muslim, I know how narrow-minded some muslims can be. Whilst I'm not saying that what she's doing is accepted in Islam (it isn't), no one has a right to tell her she's 'not a muslim' or send her death threats, blah blah, because of it.

    Islam isn't the problem. The current climate in muslim countries is. They need to stop being so backward and look at Islam in perspective of today's world. Immigrants from these countries have backward values, which obviously clash with the incredibly forward (not always in a good way!) values of the 'West'.

    I'm not condoning her behaviour nor condemning it, to each their own I suppose.
    Exactly the point I've been trying to make. There is a current of very conservative Islam in this country which struggles to coexist with our liberal values. Which is why I suggested that Islam could have done with a reformation like Christianity, where it purged itself of a lot of it's more conservative elements.

    The example of Muslims telling this women what she should wear to be a Muslim is just one example. The concept that anyone can tell someone in Britain what they should be wearing is absurd regardless of what religion they claim to follow. It may have had some relevance when it was written in the Qur'an but it doesn't now and the Muslim community needs to emphasis this rather than propagating such views.

    I know the vast majority of Muslims wouldn't suggest such a thing but it's worrying that there are still some that do. Hell we've had a few post on here suggesting these very views based upon nothing more than a slavish reading of an ancient text instead of adapting it to the modern day.

    (Original post by CombineHarvester)
    Beauty pageants and wearing little clothing is hardly 'modern'. Belly dancers in the Middle East used to wear very little clothing and perform for primarily men ~5000 years ago.
    The concept of liberal freedom is what I'm arguing, not the right to participate in beauty pageants. You're missing the point entirely. The freedom to do whatever you want so long as you're not harming others is the important point, the right to wear whatever you want and participate in a beauty pageant is just one specific empirical example of this theory not the whole case.

    Christianity has by and large adapted to liberal freedom and accepted it (with some exceptions like fundies in America and elements of the Catholic Church). It's time Islam in this country did aswell and those that reject such notions are discreditted.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by clara78)
    Muslim women where given the right to vote ,own property ,the right to inheritance ,right to divorce 1400yrs ago
    they had elections in Arabia 1400 years ago ?

    who won ?
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    I'm glad her family are supporting her, at least.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    She's ugly anyway, there are far more prettier Asians out there, at least Indians wouldn't get that much abuse.

    I wish the title would read "Pakistani" model as opposed to "Muslim"
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by B-Man.)
    You are not a Muslim and are not knowledgeable on the religion so go away you troll.
    How do you know?
    Answer: You don't, fool
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Daaaayum, she fine.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    All Brits are entitled to their rights and protections under the law. The Muslim-this Muslim-that stuff just doesn't wash. This is a warning. If someone has to be made an example of and go to prison, the whole country will be rejoicing at seeing justice done. There is no power that you people hold over here and you're losing sympathy all the time by doing things like threatening girls. Don't terrorise our citizens or you will pay the price.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Superstar6318)
    She's ugly anyway, there are far more prettier Asians out there, at least Indians wouldn't get that much abuse.

    I wish the title would read "Pakistani" model as opposed to "Muslim"
    Blame the BBC, I just paraphrased their article title.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Selkarn)
    This statement is contradictory. If something is against Islam, then you cannot call yourself a Muslim when you knowingly are going against Islam. Therefore, Muslims have every right to tell her she's not a Muslim.


    Person A: Hi, I'm a Muslim. I eat pork, gamble, drink lots of alcohol, take drugs, don't want children, and never go to mosque.
    Person B: You're not a Muslim.
    Person A: WTF YOU HAVE NO RIGHT 2 SAY DAT LOL

    -.-
    In Islam, no person can claim another human being is NOT a muslim, if said person claims that they ARE. Every muslim telling her she's not a muslim are going against the very religion they supposedly follow. Bringing me back to the point I made before, that a lot of muslims have some pretty skewed views on Islam, which, when examined properly, are not Islamic at all.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ajp100688)
    The concept of liberal freedom is what I'm arguing, not the right to participate in beauty pageants. You're missing the point entirely. The freedom to do whatever you want so long as you're not harming others is the important point, the right to wear whatever you want and participate in a beauty pageant is just one specific empirical example of this theory not the whole case.

    Christianity has by and large adapted to liberal freedom and accepted it (with some exceptions like fundies in America and elements of the Catholic Church). It's time Islam in this country did aswell and those that reject such notions are discreditted.
    No-one has stopped her from entering the pageant so that's a non-argument. The right to criticise comes hand in hand with freedom of speech. You're essentially arguing no-one should tell her she's not a Muslim or that she's not a good Muslim because it hurts her feelings. Political correctness gone mad.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ajp100688)
    Exactly the point I've been trying to make. There is a current of very conservative Islam in this country which struggles to coexist with our liberal values. Which is why I suggested that Islam could have done with a reformation like Christianity, where it purged itself of a lot of it's more conservative elements.

    The example of Muslims telling this women what she should wear to be a Muslim is just one example. The concept that anyone can tell someone in Britain what they should be wearing is absurd regardless of what religion they claim to follow. It may have had some relevance when it was written in the Qur'an but it doesn't now and the Muslim community needs to emphasis this rather than propagating such views.

    I know the vast majority of Muslims wouldn't suggest such a thing but it's worrying that there are still some that do. Hell we've had a few post on here suggesting these very views based upon nothing more than a slavish reading of an ancient text instead of adapting it to the modern day.



    The concept of liberal freedom is what I'm arguing, not the right to participate in beauty pageants. You're missing the point entirely. The freedom to do whatever you want so long as you're not harming others is the important point, the right to wear whatever you want and participate in a beauty pageant is just one specific empirical example of this theory not the whole case.

    Christianity has by and large adapted to liberal freedom and accepted it (with some exceptions like fundies in America and elements of the Catholic Church). It's time Islam in this country did aswell and those that reject such notions are discreditted.
    You preach liberal freedom yet moan about the freedom of people to complain about what the woman is doing. Just because "beauty pageants" have entered mainstream society in an acceptable way doesn't mean they are "right".
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Picaa)
    All Brits are entitled to their rights and protections under the law. The Muslim-this Muslim-that stuff just doesn't wash. This is a warning. If someone has to be made an example of and go to prison, the whole country will be rejoicing at seeing justice done. There is no power that you people hold over here and you're losing sympathy all the time by doing things like threatening girls. Don't terrorise our citizens or you will pay the price.
    Who are you talking to? :dontknow:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by qasman)
    In Islam, no person can claim another human being is NOT a muslim, if said person claims that they ARE. Every muslim telling her she's not a muslim are going against the very religion they supposedly follow. Bringing me back to the point I made before, that a lot of muslims have some pretty skewed views on Islam, which, when examined properly, are not Islamic at all.
    Proof for the first emboldened statement?

    Would you be fine if people said she was a "bad" Muslim?
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    She is hot. I hope she wins.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ajp100688)
    Blame the BBC, I just paraphrased their article title.
    Yeah, sorry I was referring to the BBC, not you. BBC journalists these days
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CombineHarvester)
    No-one has stopped her from entering the pageant so that's a non-argument. The right to criticise comes hand in hand with freedom of speech. You're essentially arguing no-one should tell her she's not a Muslim or that she's not a good Muslim because it hurts her feelings. Political correctness gone mad.

    (Original post by Selkarn)
    You preach liberal freedom yet moan about the freedom of people to complain about what the woman is doing. Just because "beauty pageants" have entered mainstream society in an acceptable way doesn't mean they are "right".
    Both of you are arguing a similar thing so I'll just make one reply. My point is not that people don't have a right to criticise her, indeed freedom of speech alongside freedom of action is very important. My point is that freedom of action is one of the core liberal theories and is incredibly important to Western and especially British concepts of human rights. Conservative Muslims have the right to criticise her decisions but for me it's a criticism based upon outdated conservative ideals and a refusal to adapt to the liberal nature of British society. Thus while they have the right to criticse, it's based upon inherently un-British views and runs contra to British society which is what I take offence at. If you live in Britain you should subscribe to such ideas as freedom of action (mainly on a Mill line) and not upon outdated historio-religious views. Islam needs to find a way of merging the two in Britain if it wants to avoid these constantly reoccuring news stories.

    It's exactly the same thing as the BNP suggesting all immigrants should be deported. I have no problem whatsoever with them airing that view but at the same time I'd reject that view and suggest that it runs contrary to the tolerance British society is based upon and they have no right to do such a thing.

    Freedom of speech doesn't equate to freedom of action. You can say anything you want but that doesn't mean that it's right and should be followed, nor does it mean that view can't be challenged because you have the freedom to express it.

    I have exactly the same problem with other religions such as the Catholic church, which thinks it somehow has a right to tell Christians that it's a sin to be gay. What right do to they have to tell someone who believes in god and follows the church's teachings that they're not a good christian because of one line in a part of the bible they ignore swathes of anyways (last time I checked Christians didn't follow Kosher laws).
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ajp100688)

    Freedom of speech doesn't equate to freedom of action. You can say anything you want but that doesn't mean that it's right and should be followed, nor does it mean that view can't be challenged because you have the freedom to express it.
    No-one has claimed that /thread.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ajp100688)
    If you live in Britain you should subscribe to such ideas as freedom of action (mainly on a Mill line) and not upon outdated historio-religious views.
    That's your opinion, and I disagree with it anyway. Who says anyone "should" subscribe to any ideas? The whole point in freedom of speech is that you are rewarded with radical, but not necessarily negative ways of thinking.


    (Original post by ajp100688)
    Islam needs to find a way of merging the two in Britain if it wants to avoid these constantly reoccuring news stories.
    I doubt Muslims care about Islam appearing in the news.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by B-Man.)
    No-one has claimed that /thread.
    Well yes they have. A number of people on this thread have claimed that because they believe she's not a Muslim (based entirely on their view of the Qur'an and religion) she's not a Muslim. Rather than stating in 'my opinion that would be breaking a fundamental concept of Islam' and thus I don't think she's a good Muslim but it's not my right to say whether she is/isn't a Muslim.

    Furthermore if you believe people don't have the right to interpret the Qur'an and their own religiousity in their own way then how you do cope with living in a society where freedom of action is one of the most important tenants. To me they're fundamentally opposite concepts.

    You either make your own decisions or you slavishly follow the writings of an ancient book and reject many of the things that makes Britain what it is. If you do the latter than you're rejecting the very notions the British state is built upon. If this woman chooses to associate herself with the Islamic faith and chooses to enter beauty pageants that's her choice, not others to make. If she is indeed breaking Islamic rules then she'll find out when she dies

    The Protestant Church seems to have understood this and embraced it, other religions could learn from it. Especially considering most religious tenants mesh very well with the concept of J.S Mill's harm principle, to quote the Bible 'do unto others as you would have done to yourself.
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the proposed ban on plastic straws and cotton buds?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.