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    (Original post by Mujeriego)
    She isn't rallying to make beauty pageants an Islamic practise.
    I know and I haven't claimed that.

    Neither has she said that it is halal and considered acceptable within Islam. She has explicitly said that it is a Western thing and that it is against her religion so how can she believe that Allah ordained it?
    Erm, where did she acknowledge that it's against her religion? She states:

    "[I get] comments like, 'You're not a Muslim because you're doing this' and it's like, this competition does not make me a bad Muslim at all."

    From this we can deduce that she doesn't see her actions has haram. Otherwise, she wouldn't state "[It] doesn't make me a bad Muslim at all". And she states:

    "She believes Muslims in the UK should be allowed to have a western lifestyle."

    Hence, believing it's permissible to lead such a lifestyle. Western lifestyle includes sex, alcohol, immodest clothing and plenty more haram stuff. Is she referring to sex, alcohol etc? Probably not, those are very, very basic beliefs that most if not all Muslims are aware of it's status, Islamically. Does she include immodest clothing? Yup.

    And yet it's not plausible that she is still a Muslim? That Allah's mercy doesn't and won't extend to her?
    It is perfectly plausible. Whether it's probable is a different matter and I would say no, it isn't probable. It's plausible for Ibn al-Rawandi (a bit of a stretch but meh) to be a Muslim. She's still entering the contest hence I doubt she's dramatically had a change of heart.
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    No, it isn't. It's pretty clear. There are plenty of Muslims who don't wear headscarf. We are all humans and thus liable to make mistakes. However, she hasn't even admitted she made a mistake and goes so far to change the deen to suit her needs. Allah didn't even let Mohamed do this so why would he let her?

    "She believes [B]Muslims in the UK[B} should be allowed to have a western lifestyle."

    "[I get] comments like, 'You're not a Muslim because you're doing this' and it's like, this competition does not make me a bad Muslim at all."

    That's a clear statement. You're clutching at straws.
    Correct, its a clear statement. But it doesn't say what you are reading it as, it seems.

    I read that as Muslims in the UK, not Muslims worldwide - she is not making an Islamic ruling.

    I see it as more a long the lines of 'Muslims who live in a secular western democracy should be free to do as they please and free from judgement from an Islamic prespective'. Where-as you chose to read it as 'The Qu'ran doesn't outlaw what I'm doing'.

    The former interpretation of her words wouldn't be such a grave sin as you claim and would only be a minor sin, no?

    As for the second quote, 'bad Muslim' is open to a very wide intepretation. It could be relatively speaking, like I was saying before - Islamic opinion on what is good/bad maybe quite close to traditional western thinking however what is better/worse is completely different in my experience.

    Again I cite the example of 'back-biting', it is a whole industry in the West (and probably in their countries too in current times) - it is seen as completely normal and part of everyday life. But in Islamic jurisprudence it is one of the worst sins one can commit.

    As you can see what she has said is infact quite vague in relation to whether she is a non-muslim. It is very difficult to state whether she is or isn't, even according to the criteria in the site you linked because its unclear what she means by what she says.

    I actually think it is you who is stretching what she is saying and passing it off as something which it wasn't intended as, where as I am giving it the simple every day meaning.
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    (Original post by clara78)
    what are you talking about Muslim women do have rights in islam you are clearly ignorant as you no nothing about islam for example Muslim women where given the right to vote ,own property ,the right to inheritance ,right to divorce 1400yrs ago way before women in britian did ect
    Oh right, I'll go get my whip, my daughter showed her ankle to a non-believer.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    Furthermore if you believe people don't have the right to interpret the Qur'an and their own religiousity in their own way then how you do cope with living in a society where freedom of action is one of the most important tenants. To me they're fundamentally opposite concepts.
    People have the right to interpret the Q'uran any way they like. In fact I encourage it.

    (Original post by ajp100688)
    You either make your own decisions or you slavishly follow the writings of an ancient book and reject many of the things that makes Britain what it is. If you do the latter than you're rejecting the very notions the British state is built upon. If this woman chooses to associate herself with the Islamic faith and chooses to enter beauty pageants that's her choice, not others to make. If she is indeed breaking Islamic rules then she'll find out when she dies
    Beauty pageants do not make Britain what it is and it is a sexist practice in which women are encouraged to 'doll themselves up' for the sexual gratification of men. It is an archaic-patriarchal practice that we, as a society, must move away from.

    (Original post by ajp100688)
    The Protestant Church seems to have understood this and embraced it, other religions could learn from it. Especially considering most religious tenants mesh very well with the concept of J.S Mill's harm principle, to quote the Bible 'do unto others as you would have done to yourself.
    To quote Islam:

    "None of you believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself"

    “That which you want for yourself, seek for mankind."

    "The most righteous of men is the one who is glad that men should have what is pleasing to himself, and who dislikes for them what is for him disagreeable."

    Are you Christian btw?
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    Would anyone disagree that on the evidence given, she is not a 'good' Muslim?

    She obviously had a choice between entering the competition and not entering. She knowingly chose to ignore one if the principles of Islam and it would therefore be hypocritical of her to claim she holds Islamic values dear to her heart if she so blatently ignores them?

    I'm not saying she's not a Muslim. I'm saying she is not a good Muslim. I think that is where some Muslims have the issue. She should not declare herself a bastion of the faith if asked during the competition about her beliefs. She did declare herself to not be representing Islam so I guess those Muslims were obviously overreacting. It's hardly the Danish cartoon scandal is it? Tbh I think she has recieved far more publicity than she deserves.
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    Actually, I also found another interesting statement:

    "Muslim girls don't enter competitions like this because Islam does not permit it but there is so much more to it than looking pretty"

    If she acknowledges that it isn't permitted then she's committed Kufrul-Juhood.

    (Original post by Steph90)
    I see it as more a long the lines of 'Muslims who live in a secular western democracy should be free to do as they please and free from judgement from an Islamic prespective'.
    Wtf? That doesn't even make sense and I haven't EVER heard of a Muslim say that. This again constitutes as Kufrul-Istihaal because you in Islam, you aren't EVER free from the Islam whether you live in a theocracy or a democracy, you're still expected to be under the control of Allah.

    As for the second quote, 'bad Muslim' is open to a very wide intepretation. It could be relatively speaking, like I was saying before - Islamic opinion on what is good/bad maybe quite close to traditional western thinking however what is better/worse is completely different in my experience.
    It's not the bad Muslim part I care about, it's the at all which implies there's no wrongdoing when there is.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    ...and not from racist idiots like the BNP or EDF.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/12860407

    This kind of nonsense is why Islam really needs to undergo a reformation like Christianity did and strip itself of the conservative sexist elements that seem to be attracted to it. I mean really sending abuse to someone because they want to enter a beauty pageant, what nonsense.
    I think the issue is she is claiming to be Muslim yet taking part in a very non-Muslim event. She is in essence contradicting herself by saying she is Muslim and taking part in a beauty pageant, when her requirement as a Muslim is to dress modestly. There's nothing sexist about it, if a Muslim man entered a male beauty contest he would be just as much as a hypocrite.

    She doesn't deserve abuse but I can understand why the community don't want the world to think she represents Islam.

    Personally, as a young western non-Muslim I find the whole idea of beauty pageants degrading. The idea of parading your body for the whole world to see isn't my idea of a strong, respectable woman, so your idea that religion must be to blame for people disliking these competitions doesn't have a leg to stand on.
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    (Original post by ussumane)
    peak times for her. Imagine a black or hispanic american trying to compete for Miss USA. Same thing would happen(if not worse)

    Good Luck anyway
    Fail.
    Miss USA is muslim, Rima Fakih, google her.
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    Argh. Take your annoyingly pointless theological debate into the Religion Section already, the important question here is this:




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    I have a question to those who have a problem with this.

    Is it any of your business?

    If it's not, then let her be. She's an educated, mature adult who has not been coerced into anything. She's harming no-one so she can choose to do what she likes.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    Freedom of speech doesn't equate to freedom of action. You can say anything you want but that doesn't mean that it's right and should be followed, nor does it mean that view can't be challenged because you have the freedom to express it.
    No, you can't say anything you want, and this under each and every legal system on Earth

    Freedom of speech is not absolute anywhere

    You are free to criticize, but you are not free to insult, threaten or slander (libel) people

    Nor are you free to incite people to commit crimes

    Better said : you can do it, but there will be legal consequences
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    (Original post by clara78)
    Muslim women where given the right to vote ,own property ,the right to inheritance ,right to divorce 1400yrs ago
    (Original post by giordano)
    they had elections in Arabia 1400 years ago ?

    who won ?
    (Original post by clara78)
    a khalifah
    so,you seriously think that the first caliphs, 1400 years ago, were designated by an electoral process in which women were allowed to take part ?

    you should read up a bit on Islamic history
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    How is she going against her religion. She believes what she wants and If she believes that this ok then it is ok. Religion is subjective to interpretation is it not?! Not all Muslims follow the same rules and beliefs just like not all Christians do.
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    She is hot.
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    (Original post by Teveth)
    I'm not exactly a fan of beauty pageants, but for you to use such language demonstrates your complete contempt for women.

    Islam can demand what it likes. British and Western values demand the same freedoms for women as for men, and these values allow for women to participate in these kinds of contests without feeling threatened by sexist pigs.
    oh, so we should all prance around the streets in a bikini now shud we in the name of 'freedom'?? you my friend are confused. beauty contests have no place in islam and its simple as that, if ms bukhari wishes to participate then it is her decision - and i agree with others that it is ultimatley between her and God. nonetheless, in doing so she is fueling the abuse against islam and the media have once again capitalised on this. wake up!
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    She's been warned, once to many times, by society preaching the words of God. I say, let her do what the hell she wants now. Its every man for himself after you've done your part.

    In Islam justice will be served to those who strived, and those who didnt. Thank God for that!!
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    (Original post by Peace0fM1nd)
    oh, so we should all prance around the streets in a bikini now shud we in the name of 'freedom'?? you my friend are confused. beauty contests have no place in islam and its simple as that, if ms bukhari wishes to participate then it is her decision - and i agree with others that it is ultimatley between her and God. nonetheless, in doing so she is fueling the abuse against islam and the media have once again capitalised on this. wake up!
    If someone wants to prance around the streets in a bikini, then that is his or her choice. As long as they aren't causing a public nuisance, then it shouldn't be a problem.

    If beauty contests have no place in Islam (although I'm not sure that's up to you), then what of it? It doesn't give anyone the right to harass or threaten her.
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    (Original post by YouthInRevolt)
    She's been warned, once to many times, by society preaching the words of God. I say, let her do what the hell she wants now. Its every man for himself after you've done your part.

    In Islam justice will be served to those who strived, and those who didnt. Thank God for that!!
    Those who have warned her are not preaching the words of God. They are preaching the words of a silly book written in the dark ages by a bunch of men.
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    (Original post by Smophy)
    How is she going against her religion. She believes what she wants and If she believes that this ok then it is ok. Religion is subjective to interpretation is it not?! Not all Muslims follow the same rules and beliefs just like not all Christians do.
    She clearly is going against her religion. :rolleyes: Islam requires a woman to dress modestly. Going out in a swimwear in front of thousands of people is hardly modest?

    Yeah, religion is open to interpretation, but dressing modestly is fundamental in Islam, as it is clearly stated in Quran, and Muslims believe that Quran is a “literal” word of Allah, and you can’t just interpret it for your own advantage.
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    (Original post by thewiseone)
    Fail.
    Miss USA is muslim, Rima Fakih, google her.
    Read page 2.
 
 
 
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