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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    The government have been saying it all along?
    That £9k would be the exception and not the rule, and that the universities would have to justify the high fees?. All BS of course. But the government still said it.
    But they never set a "selected amount" - there was never a set number nor an indication. All that was said was that Universities would have to justify charging over £6000.

    And the Universities do have to justify charging more than £6000. In fact, I think over £400 in every £9000 of fees will have to be spent on outreach programmes to promote applications from within state schools and people from poorer backgrounds.

    There are also subsidies for poorer families. Oxford Uni, for example, will charge less for students from families in the bottom quartile (more details paragraph 2 of http://www.economist.com/blogs/bligh...s_tuition_fees, with info about other Unis is paragraph 3). Programmes such as the Sutton Trust Summer School and Oxford UNIQ Course are likely to continue regardless.

    Also, it is too early to say that "most Universities will be charging £9000" when only the elite Unis have shown their plans. And we expect elite Unis to charge the highest possible fees.

    Don't get me wrong, though, I support outreach programmes as I will be affected as I start Uni - hopefully! - in 2012 (so will be affected) and I am in the "bottom quartile" of incomes. But from what I have seen, efforts are being made in this area.
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    (Original post by tripleeagle)
    And the Universities do have to justify charging more than £6000. In fact, I think over £400 in every £9000 of fees will have to be spent on outreach programmes to promote applications from within state schools and people from poorer backgrounds.
    Its between 15 and 30% of the amount over £9000. So a maxiumum of £900. Not really that much. And certainly would not stop any uni charging £9k. It was bloody naive of the government to think most unis wouldn't try to charge £9k, and now they are trying to make up for that without looking stupid.

    And yes, I know about the sutton trust stuff - I went on one.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    Its between 15 and 30% of the amount over £9000. So a maxiumum of £900. Not really that much.
    Could you give me the details of the plans for outreach programmes and where you got this information from?


    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    And certainly would not stop any uni charging £9k.

    It was bloody naive of the government to think most unis wouldn't try to charge £9k, and now they are trying to make up for that without looking stupid.
    Firstly, why do you keep saying that most Universities are going to be charging £9k? I want some proof.

    Secondly, I do not think that the point of the 'outreach programmes contributions' is to prevent Unis from charging top fees. The reason there is and fund for outreach programmes is simply to make sure that people from poorer backgrounds are encouraged to apply to top Universities - which is absolutely right.


    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    And yes, I know about the sutton trust stuff - I went on one.
    I never said that you didn't know about Sutton Trust I just said that it is likely to continue...
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    1 - We have had to pay for higher education for 12 years. So its not really "now we actually have to"

    2 - Having an educated population benefits the country. People who do certain health and medicne related courses get their fees paid for by the NHS - do you think that is wrong too?



    Right. And how do you decide if a degree is a mickey mouse one or not?

    And you may be interested to know that The University Of Abertay Dundee has a very good computer games course that is well respected and accredited by the industry. The problem in that area is other countries like Canada are giving huge tax breaks to games companies, so we are in danger of losing an entire industry that we are good at, and that brings in a lot of money.
    True, but I think you will find it benefits the student more than it does anyone else because at the end of it (ideally) they get jobs that pay more.

    As for mickey mouse courses I'd have thought common sense would decide which are and which aren't.
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    (Original post by tripleeagle)
    Could you give me the details of the plans for outreach programmes and where you got this information from?
    The government and OFFA have been quite vague on this so far. In reality this should have been detailed very early on. But in terms of what I said: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12665503

    (Original post by tripleeagle)
    Firstly, why do you keep saying that most Universities are going to be charging £9k? I want some proof.

    Secondly, I do not think that the point of the 'outreach programmes contributions' is to prevent Unis from charging top fees. The reason there is and fund for outreach programmes is simply to make sure that people from poorer backgrounds are encouraged to apply to top Universities - which is absolutely right.
    Because out of the universities that have announced what they are going to do, the vast majority have said it will be the full £9k. Even institutions that are not seen as "elite" or in the top bunch. Many places have also said that in order to keep the current level of funding for courses they will need to charge somewhere near the maximum allowed.

    And it has to be. The government have budgeted for the average fee to be £7.5k. Anything much more than that, and the new system will cost the taxpayer more than the current system.
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    (Original post by limetang)
    True, but I think you will find it benefits the student more than it does anyone else because at the end of it (ideally) they get jobs that pay more.

    As for mickey mouse courses I'd have thought common sense would decide which are and which aren't.
    1 - Depends what the course is. I'd say medicine benefits society more than the student.
    2 - Most of the time yep. But not always.
 
 
 
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