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    Rubber dinghy rapids bro
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    (Original post by c0nfus3d)
    Can completely relate :emo: :cry2:
    same :P
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    (Original post by the cake lady)

    And if anyone is thinking of telling me I shouldn't be questioning what is written in the Quran, go away right now. It is through questioning that understanding is born, and it is through understanding that belief is born.

    I'm muslim and i agree with you. The Qu'ran instructs us to question it, to test it, in order to prove its authenticity. Of which, I have, and continue to do so, and my faith continues to increase.
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    (Original post by the cake lady)
    To everyone who has promoted the rules of Islam in this thread, I would like even one of you, to explain to me in detail why any one of the aforementioned forbidden things are actually forbidden.

    It is not enough to have a do's and don'ts list.

    And if anyone is thinking of telling me I shouldn't be questioning what is written in the Quran, go away right now. It is through questioning that understanding is born, and it is through understanding that belief is born.
    Such as? You've got to be a bit more specific
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    (Original post by Cesar Lecat)
    Such as? You've got to be a bit more specific
    Ok here's one. Why is it forbidden to drink alcohol?

    I'm asking because it is very easy to tell someone off for doing something wrong, but not so easy to explain why it's wrong. And to blindly follow a rule without seeking to learn the reasoning and knowledge behind it is almost as ignorant as not following the rule. And we both know what Islam says about ignorance.

    Essentially, I will have a lot more respect for someone that is well-learned in their faith. And also think the OP will benefit from it.

    It's like if I tell you not to eat chocolate. Yeah sure, if you trust my judgement you may try not to. But then if your doctor tells you you are allergic to chocolate and explains the harmful effects of it to you, then you are going to be a lot more astute in refraining from it. In fact, probably not even going to be tempted.

    In the same way, it is not enough for people just to say to the OP that he must not drink etc. This is what I was referring to when I said it is not enough to have a list of do's and don'ts.
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    (Original post by the cake lady)
    Ok here's one. Why is it forbidden to drink alcohol?

    I'm asking because it is very easy to tell someone off for doing something wrong, but not so easy to explain why it's wrong. And to blindly follow a rule without seeking to learn the reasoning and knowledge behind it is almost as ignorant as not following the rule. And we both know what Islam says about ignorance.

    Essentially, I will have a lot more respect for someone that is well-learned in their faith. And also think the OP will benefit from it.

    It's like if I tell you not to eat chocolate. Yeah sure, if you trust my judgement you may try not to. But then if your doctor tells you you are allergic to chocolate and explains the harmful effects of it to you, then you are going to be a lot more astute in refraining from it. In fact, probably not even going to be tempted.

    In the same way, it is not enough for people just to say to the OP that he must not drink etc. This is what I was referring to when I said it is not enough to have a list of do's and don'ts.
    You're right, in Islam you're encouraged to question the religion and seek knowledge. The worst thing you can do is follow for example a shiekh or an imam blindly.

    The short answer is quite simple, although the Quran admits that there is some health benefits to drinking some alcohol, such as one glass of wine a day. The negative far far out weighs the positive when it comes to alcohol.

    Just read what Professor Nutt said about alcohol overall - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210

    Alcohol comes top as the worst drug. The fact is, the reason why it's not banned is because it's far too popular now and it's been part of society for so long. If alcohol was invented last year, no doubt the government would have banned it.

    I mean, look at how the government reacted to two people dying after taking the Meow 'meow drug. Weeks later, they made it illegal. Yet they won't do that with alcohol, when you can quite clearly see the effects it has on society as a whole.

    Long Answer, here it is...

    Spoiler:
    Show


    Is drinking in Islam haram (Forbidden)? Is it because drinking leads to transgressions? What if one consumes little alcohol? Is it okay to drink then? Does the same holds true for drugs? What if we take very little or if we were just curious to try?

    Why would a person want to take something harmful into his body? Why would a rational human being want to dull his senses and cloud his judgment? In a world given to drowning its sorrows in alcohol and drugs, helping people to forget the harsh realities of life and allowing them to enjoy a brief moment of happiness brought about by drink, Islam has a total prohibition on alcohol and all intoxicants. They are forbidden to Muslims. For many people, the problems of this world are too much to bear. Having no faith, or not enough faith to sustain them and give them hope, they turn to drinking.

    For the devout Muslim, it is sufficient reason to shun alcohol that Almighty Allah forbids it. This, alone, is enough for him to avoid alcohol and all intoxicants. However, Muslims know that Allah cares for us with an infinite care and has given every advice for us to avoid harm and to do good things that will benefit us.


    We need to step back just for a moment into the world of pre-Islamic Arabia to see where this prohibition comes from and how the early Muslims were led, little by little, to give up drinking alcohol altogether.


    Allah never asks of us more than we can do, so His injunction against alcohol was delivered in stages. Life in the Arabian Peninsula before Islam was very harsh and people had to be very tough in order to survive. Not only the inhospitable nature of the land, but fierce feuding between tribes, the despicable practice of burying unwanted female babies alive, slavery, and immorality were common.


    The people turned to worshipping idols as their way out, beseeching statues of wood and stone to save them. The drinking of alcohol and its associated drunkenness and bad behavior were symptoms of the solace they sought from life's troubles. Alcohol was readily available and shops selling it were open at all times to quench the people's thirst for respite from their woes.


    When the message of Islam was first delivered, then, alcohol was readily available and frequently consumed. At first, the Muslims were told in the Qur'an that they should not turn up drunk for the Prayers in the mosque:


    *{O you who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until you can understand all that you say}* (An-Nisaa' 4:43)


    How could they concentrate on praising Allah if their minds were clouded by strong drink? It still remained possible, though, for them to continue consuming wine and other beverages. At a later stage, another revelation was received which told them that there was some good to be found in alcohol, as people would tell us today, but that this was outweighed by the bad:


    *{They ask you concerning alcohol and gambling. Say: ‘In them is a great sin, and some benefits for men, but the sin is far greater than the benefits.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:219)


    Muslims began to question, after the revelation of this verse, whether perhaps drinking alcohol was the best thing for them to do, even though it was not yet forbidden, and many stopped drinking from this time onward. Drunkenness began to be seen as something shameful and not befitting the high moral standards of which Muslims were called to be the best examples. Muslims would help each other in giving up alcohol, supporting and encouraging those who found it difficult.


    Finally, a verse was revealed to the Muslims in Madinah which totally forbade alcohol:


    *{You who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination of Satan's handiwork. Eschew such abomination, that you may prosper. Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer; will you not then abstain?}* (Al-Ma'idah 5:90-91)


    From that day forward, alcohol became forbidden. The word used in the Qur'an, by the way, is Al-khamr, which comes from a word meaning "to ferment," so it is usually translated as wine or alcohol. However, as more modern mind-altering drugs have become available, these, too, have been understood to fall within the prohibition.



    So, we can see how Almighty Allah weaned the Muslims away from what was harmful to them. At first, Allah hinted that it might not be good since it would affect their Prayers. Then He said that it did have some good but was mostly bad. Finally, Allah declared it to be the work of Satan.



    The early Muslims could not have known what recent medical and scientific studies have shown about alcohol. They could not have known, for example, that it acts as a depressant to the nervous system and that it can cause shrinking of the brain and even senility. They could not have known that alcohol can affect the digestive system, cause high blood pressure, even in small amounts increase the risk of brain hemorrhage and strokes, or that it can affect sleep patterns. Subhan Allah that these things were prevented for Muslims 1400 years ago!



    So, the answer to why alcohol is forbidden is clear: It is harmful to us. It is harmful to us, physically, and it also harms us as people. Why would we, as Muslims, need to take solace in drink? One of the saddest features of life in the Western world, for example, is how workers look forward all week long to the end of the week when they can go out together to the pub. This often leads to drunkenness and a lowering of one's guard, which in turn leads to other bad behaviors. How sad that many people, because of loneliness and depression, turn to drink and to drugs to fill in that desperate need for affection or fulfillment in life. What a tragedy that alcohol has torn apart families and broken many lives and careers.



    In a world where they feel loved and respected, people would not need these artificial stimulants to make them feel good. One of the amazing features of the Muslim world is that Muslims can go out together for fun and can be genuinely happy, without even thinking of the need for alcohol.



    It is a pity that many non-Muslims consider the consumption of alcohol a social necessity, whereas it is not a necessity at all. A glass of wine or a glass of whisky is just not necessary to have fun, so why increase the risk of illness as a result? Why allow your mind to become less than lucid because of alcohol and other intoxicants? Why make a fool of yourself in front of others or say things which you might regret later, when you can socialize with friends and family just as easily over fruit juices or soft drinks?



    The fact is that people crave happiness and they will find it in whatever form they know. The pursuit of material things, the relentless urge to improve one's position at the expense of others and the desperate need to be wanted are all symptoms of a society without faith. For Muslims, there is no need for drugs or strong drink. Happiness comes from strong family values and for the respect which we give to each other as true brothers and sisters. The real happiness in life, though, comes from Almighty Allah, the source of all goodness. We can show the rest of the world what life is really about by the way we live as good Muslims.


    When Islam prohibited alcohol and drugs, it prohibited them whether they are taken in much or little amounts. If a person is allowed to take the little, the much will be taken later. This prohibition is based on the Shari`ah objective of maintaining and keeping safe one's mind. `Abdullah ibn `Umar reported that: I heard `Umar (ibn Al-Khattab) while he was on the pulpit of the Prophet saying, "Now then O people! The revelation about the prohibition of alcoholic drinks was revealed, and alcoholic drinks are extracted from five things: grapes, dates, honey, wheat, and barley. And the alcoholic drink is that which confuses and stupefies the mind." (Al-Bukhari)
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    (Original post by the cake lady)
    To everyone who has promoted the rules of Islam in this thread, I would like even one of you, to explain to me in detail why any one of the aforementioned forbidden things are actually forbidden.

    It is not enough to have a do's and don'ts list.

    And if anyone is thinking of telling me I shouldn't be questioning what is written in the Quran, go away right now. It is through questioning that understanding is born, and it is through understanding that belief is born.
    Here's why we are forbidden to drink alcohol ... Alcohol is classified as a drug that leads a human being to not be consciously aware of what he/she is doing after consumption. This may lead self-harm/ unprotected sex/ violence/ rape ... All of which I hope don't need explained to you as to why they are wrong .. And beforer you say not everyone does that ... There are problems on a smaller scale also.. Affairs, cheating ETC

    This justified enough ?!
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    Just admit it, muslums cant have fun because they are restricted by thier opressive religion. You envy a catholic lifestyle. A fun day for muslims would be hanging about in a car park with other muslims comparing engine sizes of thier honda civics
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    (Original post by neo112)
    Just admit it, muslums cant have fun because they are restricted by thier opressive religion. You envy a catholic lifestyle. A fun day for muslims would be hanging about in a car park with other muslims comparing engine sizes of thier honda civics
    LOL ... You do realise that much of what we believe is what catholics believe also ... I.e. it is in the catholic religion not to drink .. i'm very sure this is true ... And I dont compare engine sizes in a car park ... I don't feel opressed I actually feel I got good morals, beliefs and a high self-esteem and confidence .. i just dont get wasted every weekend and shag everything with a hole
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    I assume that the typical muslim, has strict parents, along with high expectations of thier son. Do a degree for honour.......to prevent honour killing. My parents will support me in any thing i do, and no i have no need to impress no one. I have no burden unlike the muslim, also when u finished ur degree its typical next stage will be arrianged wedding.
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    (Original post by neo112)
    I assume that the typical muslim, has strict parents, along with high expectations of thier son. Do a degree for honour.......to prevent honour killing. My parents will support me in any thing i do, and no i have no need to impress no one. I have no burden unlike the muslim, also when u finished ur degree its typical next stage will be arrianged wedding.
    Nah my parents aren't strict and don't have high expectations ... They are rather just supportive and would like to see me being successful in life with a career in my hand .. As what any parent would want for a child ... I dont have an arranged marriage set rather my parents said to me that if u find someone yourself who u have fallen in love with then they shall respect that ..... All they ask of me is to respect them and the religious values they have taught me .. Which as mentioned is not to drink have casual sex and to disrespect people!! ... Anything wrong with that .. i don't think there is ..
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    (Original post by the cake lady)
    Ok here's one. Why is it forbidden to drink alcohol?

    I'm asking because it is very easy to tell someone off for doing something wrong, but not so easy to explain why it's wrong. And to blindly follow a rule without seeking to learn the reasoning and knowledge behind it is almost as ignorant as not following the rule. And we both know what Islam says about ignorance.

    Essentially, I will have a lot more respect for someone that is well-learned in their faith. And also think the OP will benefit from it.

    It's like if I tell you not to eat chocolate. Yeah sure, if you trust my judgement you may try not to. But then if your doctor tells you you are allergic to chocolate and explains the harmful effects of it to you, then you are going to be a lot more astute in refraining from it. In fact, probably not even going to be tempted.

    In the same way, it is not enough for people just to say to the OP that he must not drink etc. This is what I was referring to when I said it is not enough to have a list of do's and don'ts.
    Islam teaches us that God has given us the gift of life and health and therefore we should respect our health and body.

    1. => Alcohol can lead to numerous health problems

    Such as cardiovascular disease, malabsorption, chronic pancreatitis, cirrosis of the liver , cancer and lots more. Now whilst these are more associated with 'heavy' alcohol consumption the Qu'ran also knows alcohol has health benefits but says

    "They ask you regarding wine and gambling. Say, in both of them is major sin, and there is some benefit for men, but the sin of them is far greater than benefit". [2:219]


    2. Alcohol is a waste of money and is a depressant.

    "Spend your wealth in the Way of Allah and do not cast yourselves into ruin with your own hands" (2:195)

    This is further justifying that alcohol is bad as it is saying you should be wise with your money and spend it in good ways (in the Way of Allah) i.e. charitable causes and helping out those who really need help. As opposed to getting drunk for your own personal desire - which being a depressant can also 'cast you into ruin'.

    It being a waste of money is further backed up by the economics of alcohol. Its a demerit good which costs the nhs £3bn per year. £3bn!!!!!!!!. Of course this only the monetary cost of alcohol, ignoring all the wrecked families and lives. Think how many hungry children or families that £3bn could feed.


    3. It can lead to worse sins like premaritial sex

    The famous 'beer goggles' term applies here => alcohol turns you into a horny dog and increases your sex drive and makes you want to have sex with anyone. Of course premaritial sex (zina) is one of the worst sins (I can also give you the reasoning for this) but im sure you allready know why.



    4. Muslims are required to pray 5 times a day and you can't pray and be under the influence


    The effects of alcohol last quite a long time and since prayer times are only a few hours apart, you can't drink and pray. Why not? Would you really want to be a messy drunk in front of the creator of the universe? You don't have a clear mind when your drunk either so how can you be genuine in your worship?


    Would you like more? Or do you have any questions?

    *EDIT*

    I very much agree with Cesar Lecat. Islam encourages questioning. Question your heart out, and go seek answers I did that once, and now i'm a muslim
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    (Original post by Insomnia)
    I respect all aspects of my religion and think that there aren't any flaws with it ... I also respect everyone on my uni course who obviously do things that islam doesn't accept e.g consuming alcohol, casual sex etc ... These people are even my friends along with my muslim friends as I believe when living in such a diverse society there is definitely a need to integrate ... Problem is that I respect my values and don't drink, which is much of what uni culture is about ... believe it or not my muslim friends are all out there also which leaves me standing in such an awkward position .. I mean is clubbing, boozing, casual sex etc the only thing people have in common to talk about 80% of the time... What do you do in such a situation? You obv do get an urge to go out clubbing etc but my conscious wont let me because i kow its wrong.... This thread is by no means to hate on Islam (it doesn't promote killings and terror) etc .. Its simply here to show that there are muslims who are modern and banterful just not out there drinking like the rest .. This is what I believe seperates cultural differences .... Any advice would be great ... And btw I amn't a very religous person .. i just respect the values that i have learned from islam ...

    Ok, so I've read through a fair number of comments so far before deciding to answer myself. There are two main ways to look at your situation.

    1) Avoid the temptation as you're doing completely. If you have any qualms about going clubbing then don't go. To be honest it seems like you're thinking about going more because you don't want to be left out than anything else. If you think there's a serious chance you could sin then avoid it. As for your friends, you don't have to be attached to the hip for you to remain friends. Go out to restaurants, the cinema or whatever other activities your city offers. But when they go clubbing just stay in, meet up with your friends who don't go clubbing or whatever else you feel like doing. When they're talking about something and you feel left out you can either join in by asking them about certain events or just change the subject to something you've done or whatever's in the news (I don't know what your interests are:P).

    2) Go clubbing and see what the fuss is all about so that you don't feel left out. If you absolutely feel terrible about it, why not ask some Muslim friends to come along with you and you can support each other? There are a lot of things about western society that don't really correlate with Islam- however integrating does not mean that you are sinning. in saying that, grinding against a drunken girl isn't the solution either. It's all about moderation. Don't cut yourself off from western culture but remember there are things within the culture that you can participate in without harming your deen. The flaw with this option is that chances are you will probably still feel left out, because the clubbing experience for a drunk person is far greater than that of a sober one.

    I am a Muslim girl but I've been clubbing. I only really went because people pressured me into it just because they wanted me to be around so they had good intentions. Anyway, I was dressed modestly and I didn't really dance at all, just sort of bobbed around like a weirdo. I avoided the larger crowds and basically just made conversation with a couple of people I'd never met before. Of course didn't drink. It was a thrilling experience because it was my first time, but I soon lost interest. My friends are still my friends, they haven't left me out because I don't go clubbing with them at all. My parents wanted me to try clubbing so that I could understand for myself why it was wrong in Islam. I'm glad I had the experience but then again I've never been even slightly tempted by alcohol. I don't like the smell or it's effect. If ever I felt tempted I just looked at the closest girl with her privates on show and dignity at home and those temptations quickly fizzled.

    I hope I've sort of made myself clear. You know the Islamic rules, you know your limits, it's completely your decision.
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    (Original post by Insomnia)
    I respect all aspects of my religion and think that there aren't any flaws with it ... I also respect everyone on my uni course who obviously do things that islam doesn't accept e.g consuming alcohol, casual sex etc ... These people are even my friends along with my muslim friends as I believe when living in such a diverse society there is definitely a need to integrate ... Problem is that I respect my values and don't drink, which is much of what uni culture is about ... believe it or not my muslim friends are all out there also which leaves me standing in such an awkward position .. I mean is clubbing, boozing, casual sex etc the only thing people have in common to talk about 80% of the time... What do you do in such a situation? You obv do get an urge to go out clubbing etc but my conscious wont let me because i kow its wrong.... This thread is by no means to hate on Islam (it doesn't promote killings and terror) etc .. Its simply here to show that there are muslims who are modern and banterful just not out there drinking like the rest .. This is what I believe seperates cultural differences .... Any advice would be great ... And btw I amn't a very religous person .. i just respect the values that i have learned from islam ...

    I was with a half Asian half Persian girl. She is Muslim and she was there letting me such her **ts and all sorts. She goes clubbing and drinks a lot. Live your life mate, even the Saudi princes sleep with escorts, and have drug fuelled parties.
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    (Original post by Deema)
    Ok, so I've read through a fair number of comments so far before deciding to answer myself. There are two main ways to look at your situation.

    1) Avoid the temptation as you're doing completely. If you have any qualms about going clubbing then don't go. To be honest it seems like you're thinking about going more because you don't want to be left out than anything else. If you think there's a serious chance you could sin then avoid it. As for your friends, you don't have to be attached to the hip for you to remain friends. Go out to restaurants, the cinema or whatever other activities your city offers. But when they go clubbing just stay in, meet up with your friends who don't go clubbing or whatever else you feel like doing. When they're talking about something and you feel left out you can either join in by asking them about certain events or just change the subject to something you've done or whatever's in the news (I don't know what your interests are:P).

    2) Go clubbing and see what the fuss is all about so that you don't feel left out. If you absolutely feel terrible about it, why not ask some Muslim friends to come along with you and you can support each other? There are a lot of things about western society that don't really correlate with Islam- however integrating does not mean that you are sinning. in saying that, grinding against a drunken girl isn't the solution either. It's all about moderation. Don't cut yourself off from western culture but remember there are things within the culture that you can participate in without harming your deen. The flaw with this option is that chances are you will probably still feel left out, because the clubbing experience for a drunk person is far greater than that of a sober one.

    I am a Muslim girl but I've been clubbing. I only really went because people pressured me into it just because they wanted me to be around so they had good intentions. Anyway, I was dressed modestly and I didn't really dance at all, just sort of bobbed around like a weirdo. I avoided the larger crowds and basically just made conversation with a couple of people I'd never met before. Of course didn't drink. It was a thrilling experience because it was my first time, but I soon lost interest. My friends are still my friends, they haven't left me out because I don't go clubbing with them at all. My parents wanted me to try clubbing so that I could understand for myself why it was wrong in Islam. I'm glad I had the experience but then again I've never been even slightly tempted by alcohol. I don't like the smell or it's effect. If ever I felt tempted I just looked at the closest girl with her privates on show and dignity at home and those temptations quickly fizzled.

    I hope I've sort of made myself clear. You know the Islamic rules, you know your limits, it's completely your decision.
    Good reply ... Think you and I are on the same wavelength .. What you have said to me tbh is what I basically already know though .. I know how to deal with it also .. I was just putting it out there ...
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    (Original post by Millz)
    I was with a half Asian half Persian girl. She is Muslim and she was there letting me such her **ts and all sorts. She goes clubbing and drinks a lot. Live your life mate, even the Saudi princes sleep with escorts, and have drug fuelled parties.
    Kl story .. Sort your life out ... If the saudi princess truned lesbian would that mean u start taking it up the ass?
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    (Original post by puscifer)
    Islam teaches us that God has given us the gift of life and health and therefore we should respect our health and body.

    1. => Alcohol can lead to numerous health problems

    Such as cardiovascular disease, malabsorption, chronic pancreatitis, cirrosis of the liver , cancer and lots more. Now whilst these are more associated with 'heavy' alcohol consumption the Qu'ran also knows alcohol has health benefits but says

    "They ask you regarding wine and gambling. Say, in both of them is major sin, and there is some benefit for men, but the sin of them is far greater than benefit". [2:219]


    2. Alcohol is a waste of money and is a depressant.

    "Spend your wealth in the Way of Allah and do not cast yourselves into ruin with your own hands" (2:195)

    This is further justifying that alcohol is bad as it is saying you should be wise with your money and spend it in good ways (in the Way of Allah) i.e. charitable causes and helping out those who really need help. As opposed to getting drunk for your own personal desire - which being a depressant can also 'cast you into ruin'.

    It being a waste of money is further backed up by the economics of alcohol. Its a demerit good which costs the nhs £3bn per year. £3bn!!!!!!!!. Of course this only the monetary cost of alcohol, ignoring all the wrecked families and lives. Think how many hungry children or families that £3bn could feed.


    3. It can lead to worse sins like premaritial sex

    The famous 'beer goggles' term applies here => alcohol turns you into a horny dog and increases your sex drive and makes you want to have sex with anyone. Of course premaritial sex (zina) is one of the worst sins (I can also give you the reasoning for this) but im sure you allready know why.



    4. Muslims are required to pray 5 times a day and you can't pray and be under the influence


    The effects of alcohol last quite a long time and since prayer times are only a few hours apart, you can't drink and pray. Why not? Would you really want to be a messy drunk in front of the creator of the universe? You don't have a clear mind when your drunk either so how can you be genuine in your worship?


    Would you like more? Or do you have any questions?
    Just wanted to add to the list one of the most important ones you missed out...

    Alcohol affects the clarity of the mind. Our minds are our greatest gifts from God. Our intelligence and clarity is what separates us from animals and helps us make decisions that benefit us such as educating ourselves, teaching others, being good family members, friends and work-people. Being sober also allows us control of our dignity, thoughts and urges. Allowing ourselves to become drunk means robbing ourselves of all of those gifts. Furthermore, it causes us to avoid addressing our own problems rationally, which could potentially lead us to becoming very mentally unstable/ unhealthy.

    True, not all people who drink necessarily get drunk or even drink regularly, however if drinking is allowed then where do we draw the line? At one drink for shorter, skinnier people and three for taller, larger people? How do you stop the ball rolling? So to avoid temptation of becoming drunk, it is completely prohibited.
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    (Original post by Insomnia)
    Kl story .. Sort your life out ... If the saudi princess truned lesbian would that mean u start taking it up the ass?
    Lol, do not follow them. I follow my own life mate, to be honest; I find those who proclaim faith to be some of the biggest hypocrites. Life is a funny thing.
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    (Original post by Millz)
    Lol, do not follow them. I follow my own life mate, to be honest; I find those who proclaim faith to be some of the biggest hypocrites. Life is a funny thing.
    Yeh they are, but you could not have chosen worse examples to make the point than Persians and Saudi princes..
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    (Original post by Insomnia)
    Good reply ... Think you and I are on the same wavelength .. What you have said to me tbh is what I basically already know though .. I know how to deal with it also .. I was just putting it out there ...
    Oh ok, it just sounded like you also wanted advice from your original post. It would be nice to know what you eventually decide on doing
 
 
 
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