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Defending Balaclavas & Violent Protests watch

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    (Original post by meowmeowmutiny)
    Then hopefully the police will quickly find their innocence and they'll be freed. What the **** do you think?
    I think it's appalling and a large group of people were kettled, arrested and kept overnight in cells without charge.
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    (Original post by meowmeowmutiny)
    Ok, your comprehension skills are too low, I won't bother.



    hahaha
    You're the one who can't seem to comprehend that the idea the protesters would murder people is ridiculous.

    Why is that funny?

    You make ludicrous claims without evidence and because I dispute your allegations, you tell me I have low comprehension?

    Are you sure we're talking about the same protests?
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    (Original post by No Future)
    You're the one who can't seem to comprehend that the idea the protesters would murder people is ridiculous.

    Why is that funny?

    You make ludicrous claims without evidence and because I dispute your allegations, you tell me I have low comprehension?

    Are you sure we're talking about the same protests?
    Perhaps you should consider trying to understand what I was saying.
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    (Original post by meowmeowmutiny)
    Perhaps you should consider trying to understand what I was saying.
    Maybe you could illustrate your point more clearly?
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Advocating fiscal responsibility = Xenophobia?

    And you're the one arguing intellectual superiority and clarity of thought? :rolleyes:
    I'm talking about the fact that regardless of who we blame, we are all angry at the same thing - society sucks. Some will blame the foreigners, which is completely illogical but the idea that they are a plague that needs to be purged from our land is a very simple solution and one that re-inforces their nationalism. On the other hand, others who understand that it is the capitalist system that is to blame, will blame the people who are actually at the heart of that system.
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    (Original post by channy)
    Plenty of youtube videos out there, get searching.

    psst, Iam Tomlinson (and me, but I didn't get killed).
    Because that was totally unprovoked right? :rolleyes: Watch the videos yourself, you'll see him deliberatley antagonise police in an already volatile situation.

    (Original post by channy)

    Do you understand the nature of a protest? Do you understand what it means to protest? Let's just say you aren't there to celebrate the heart-lifting actions of the government.
    [\QUOTE]

    Of course I understand. But in order to be considered legitimate 'peaceful' protest you have to make an effort to weed out violent protesters. Otherwise you're as bad as them. When people complain about their treatment by the Police, you have to ask yourself why they are treated like that. Because you're all as bad as each other.
    (Original post by channy)
    Kettle, not much space to move around, see. Besides the pigs don't listen to you, instead you get a baton to the head and get incessantly shouted out to MOVE BACK. Maybe their head gear is getting in the way, I am neither The Hulk or Moses, I can't get hundreds of people behind me to move back.
    They are explicitly trained not to go for the head, yet that's where the big black rod always strikes. Magnetic.

    Next time I won't hold up my hands in what is recognised as the universal sign of "look no weapon, don't attack me". Or "V", depends which way though.
    Ok. Why call the Police pigs? They think the same of you I'm sure. Why not keep it civil? And you forget that it's a stressful situation for everyone involved, both the protesters and the Police. The Police are always outnumbered, and always the targets of violence. You only have to see footage of violent attacks on police during riots to see what they fear. You only get kettled when your protesters have a history of violence. The first student protest they was very little kettling, after the abuse of that freedom, there was kettling. Just look at the Unision protests, much kettling there? You can't defend violent actions from the protesters and then condemn the reasonable response of the Police. Either be peaceful or don't bloomin' complain.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    I'm talking about the fact that regardless of who we blame, we are all angry at the same thing - society sucks. Some will blame the foreigners, which is completely illogical but the idea that they are a plague that needs to be purged from our land is a very simple solution and one that re-inforces their nationalism. On the other hand, others who understand that it is the capitalist system that is to blame, will blame the people who are actually at the heart of that system.
    :rolleyes: You understand the Capitalist system is to blame? :rolleyes:

    Oh my, the system is no more to blame than immigrants. And your assumption that people who advocate Fiscal Responsibility are Xenophobes is frankly, pathetic.
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    I had always thought that protesting was about "making your voice heard" "standing up and being counted". As soon as you cover your face, you turn from a protester into a disgusting coward.

    Protest if you want. Go and smash up some windows, if you honestly think it will be beneficial to your cause. But surely the point of protesting is to be so passionate about the cause that you are willing to get arrested/go to prison/go to any lengths for it. That is part of the problem - people "care" enough to smash things up and throw fire extinguishers, but they don't "care" enough to take the rap for it. Civil disobedience is when people no longer care about the consequences of their lawbreaking. Wearing a face mask and smashing stuff up is not civil disobedience, it's just illegal damage to property.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    :rolleyes: You understand the Capitalist system is to blame? :rolleyes:

    Oh my, the system is no more to blame than immigrants. And your assumption that people who advocate Fiscal Responsibility are Xenophobes is frankly, pathetic.
    I'm talking about working class EDL types.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Because that was totally unprovoked right? :rolleyes: Watch the videos yourself, you'll see him deliberatley antagonise police in an already volatile situation.





    Ok. Why call the Police pigs? They think the same of you I'm sure. Why not keep it civil? And you forget that it's a stressful situation for everyone involved, both the protesters and the Police. The Police are always outnumbered, and always the targets of violence. You only have to see footage of violent attacks on police during riots to see what they fear. You only get kettled when your protesters have a history of violence. The first student protest they was very little kettling, after the abuse of that freedom, there was kettling. Just look at the Unision protests, much kettling there? You can't defend violent actions from the protesters and then condemn the reasonable response of the Police. Either be peaceful or don't bloomin' complain.
    Because that was totally unprovoked right? :rolleyes: Watch the videos yourself, you'll see him deliberatley antagonise police in an already volatile situation.
    Sigh, they just resolved this in the trial.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...sh?INTCMP=SRCH

    There's the link...gosh.

    Why not keep it civil?
    I have written several times that I am a peaceful protestor;

    Next time I won't hold up my hands in what is recognised as the universal sign of "look no weapon, don't attack me". Or "V", depends which way though.
    Of course I understand. But in order to be considered legitimate 'peaceful' protest you have to make an effort to weed out violent protesters. Otherwise you're as bad as them. When people complain about their treatment by the Police, you have to ask yourself why they are treated like that. Because you're all as bad as each other.
    Also, you may or may not realise I cannot control other people's actions. I'm not Xavier.

    You only have to see footage of violent attacks on police during riots to see what they fear.
    Tell me how many police-men were hospitalised with cracked skulls.

    You can't defend violent actions from the protesters and then condemn the reasonable response of the Police.
    Clarify where I defended violent protesters.

    It's nice to see policing tactics have progressed from early 19th century (Peterloo Massacre), eh?

    Naive as ****.
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    (Original post by channy)
    Sigh, they just resolved this in the trial.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...sh?INTCMP=SRCH

    There's the link...gosh.
    There's a difference between being a threat and deliberatley antagonising. Gosh :rolleyes:

    (Original post by channy)
    I have written several times that I am a peaceful protestor;
    And yet you refer to the Police as 'pigs'. That's what I meant when I said can't we keep it civil. The Police do good work in this country, and for you to dissparrage them so is, quite frankly abhorrent.


    (Original post by channy)
    Also, you may or may not realise I cannot control other people's actions. I'm not Xavier.
    :rolleyes: That's not what I'm saying. But as a peaceful protester ( :rolleyes: ) surely you must agree that violent protesters should not be hidden behind your ranks? Lest you all be tarred with the same brush, a little self policing could make the whole thing a lot more pleasant.

    (Original post by channy)
    Tell me how many police-men were hospitalised with cracked skulls.
    None at that protest. But that'd be the protective gear and whatnot. Tell me how many protesters had bricks, bottles and fenceposts thrown at them?

    (Original post by channy)
    Clarify where I defended violent protesters.

    It's nice to see policing tactics have progressed from early 19th century (Peterloo Massacre), eh?

    Naive as ****.
    You attack the Police methods, whilst defending the dimwits that provoke them. The Police do what they have to, to ensure the law is followed. No violence = No aggressive policing. Simple.

    And please, our Police are some of the most lenient in the world. What would you have them do? Let the Anarchists and 'peaceful' protesters run amok wherever they please?

    Naive as **** my dear, naive as ****.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    I'm talking about working class EDL types.
    And how did that in any way relate to my comment?
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    There's a difference between being a threat and deliberatley antagonising. Gosh :rolleyes:




    And yet you refer to the Police as 'pigs'. That's what I meant when I said can't we keep it civil. The Police do good work in this country, and for you to dissparrage them so is, quite frankly abhorrent.




    :rolleyes: That's not what I'm saying. But as a peaceful protester ( :rolleyes: ) surely you must agree that violent protesters should not be hidden behind your ranks? Lest you all be tarred with the same brush, a little self policing could make the whole thing a lot more pleasant.



    None at that protest. But that'd be the protective gear and whatnot. Tell me how many protesters had bricks, bottles and fenceposts thrown at them?



    You attack the Police methods, whilst defending the dimwits that provoke them. The Police do what they have to, to ensure the law is followed. No violence = No aggressive policing. Simple.

    And please, our Police are some of the most lenient in the world. What would you have them do? Let the Anarchists and 'peaceful' protesters run amok wherever they please?

    Naive as **** my dear, naive as ****.
    There's a difference between being a threat and deliberatley antagonising. Gosh :rolleyes:
    Right, hands in pockets, back to the police, walking away...is that what you class as threatening?

    The rest of what you say is just as *******s.

    And yet you refer to the Police as 'pigs'. That's what I meant when I said can't we keep it civil. The Police do good work in this country, and for you to dissparrage them so is, quite frankly abhorrent.
    99.99% of protesters are entirely civil. If you count good work as hiding badge numbers and hospitalising people...

    :rolleyes: That's not what I'm saying. But as a peaceful protester ( :rolleyes: ) surely you must agree that violent protesters should not be hidden behind your ranks? Lest you all be tarred with the same brush, a little self policing could make the whole thing a lot more pleasant.
    If you had any idea about what happens at protests, you'd know what you just said is utter *******s.

    No one "hides" violent protesters behind the ranks. For example in the last protest, they split off from the main march.

    A little self policing, Christ what are you on. I'm not an undercover police officer inciting violence you know.

    None at that protest. But that'd be the protective gear and whatnot. Tell me how many protesters had bricks, bottles and fenceposts thrown at them?
    I actually got stuck between the police line and people pushing fences, it was a close call, but I managed to get out.

    Oh yeah, head gear. I should wear some next time, as that's where police officers go for, when they have been trained explicitly not to.

    You attack the Police methods, whilst defending the dimwits that provoke them. The Police do what they have to, to ensure the law is followed. No violence = No aggressive policing. Simple.
    Please find a sentence where I defend violent protesters. I'm merely showing my distaste at police officers who attack innocent protesters. It's not hard to distinguish between them. Well, maybe for you.


    And please, our Police are some of the most lenient in the world. What would you have them do? Let the Anarchists and 'peaceful' protesters run amok wherever they please?
    And the so called "anarchists" are nowhere as violent as others.
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    (Original post by channy)
    Right, hands in pockets, back to the police, walking away...is that what you class as threatening?

    The rest of what you say is just as *******s.
    Let's try this one more time. But this time, read my words, don't put your own in my post :rolleyes:

    He was not being threatening, he was being diliberatley antagonistic. Get that?

    (Original post by channy)
    99.99% of protesters are entirely civil. If you count good work as hiding badge numbers and hospitalising people...
    Do you try to misinterpret me? Or are you just thick. I'm talking about your referencing of the Police. 'Pig' is not a civil term.


    (Original post by channy)
    If you had any idea about what happens at protests, you'd know what you just said is utter *******s.

    No one "hides" violent protesters behind the ranks. For example in the last protest, they split off from the main march.

    A little self policing, Christ what are you on. I'm not an undercover police officer inciting violence you know.
    Yes, I do have an idea of what goes on at protests. You bring the trouble makers along in your ranks, and then they go on their merry way. Often times the less comoitted trouble makers stay within main ranks, just as seen with the Student protests. If you can't seperate yourselves from them, then expect to be treated like them.


    (Original post by channy)
    I actually got stuck between the police line and people pushing fences, it was a close call, but I managed to get out.

    Oh yeah, head gear. I should wear some next time, as that's where police officers go for, when they have been trained explicitly not to.
    So you dismiss my perfectly valid point? The only reason Police are not seriously injured is due to their training and gear. And yet you think that's acceptable? I couldn't blame them for trying to hurt you (not that they do) considering some of the crap 'protesters' try to pull.

    And in a melee like that created at the protests of recent months, it's understandable that a few people take blows to the head. That doesn't mean the Police are targetting them. Equally, even if some Police were, it is only 1 or 2 of the thousands required to Police such 'protests'.


    (Original post by channy)
    Please find a sentence where I defend violent protesters. I'm merely showing my distaste at police officers who attack innocent protesters. It's not hard to distinguish between them. Well, maybe for you.
    :rolleyes: They don't attack innocent protesters. They contain them. They don't attack violent protesters. They contain and detain them. You say attack as if they go out of their way to cause physical harm. Believe me, if the Police wanted to 'attack' you, you'd go home nursing more than a sore head or bruised arm :rolleyes:



    (Original post by channy)
    And the so called "anarchists" are nowhere as violent as others.
    And to whom are you reffering here?
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    He was not being threatening, he was being diliberatley antagonistic. Get that?
    (Original post by Steevee)
    You bring the trouble makers along in your ranks, and then they go on their merry way.

    They don't attack innocent protesters. They contain them. They don't attack violent protesters. They contain and detain them. You say attack as if they go out of their way to cause physical harm. Believe me, if the Police wanted to 'attack' you, you'd go home nursing more than a sore head or bruised arm :rolleyes
    That's all I have to read to see that you are a complete tool.





    And don't lie, you haven't been to a protest.
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    (Original post by channy)
    That's all I have to read to see that you are a complete tool.





    And don't lie, you haven't been to a protest.
    Ahh, good argument there.

    And I never claimed I've been to a protest, I mearly said I know what goes on at them.

    Also, the girl in that video, insanely annoying.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Because that was totally unprovoked right? :rolleyes: Watch the videos yourself, you'll see him deliberatley antagonise police in an already volatile situation.
    Well, whatever happened, the IPCC recommended action against the officer who shoved Tomlinson over.

    However, this doesn't suit the agenda of some people on this board who try and make out that this incident is representative of police behaviour as a whole.

    It was the CPS who decided (because of conflicting post mortem findings) not to prosecute.

    So any criticism of the police in general, or the IPCC in relation to this incident is unwarranted.
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    (Original post by marcusfox)
    If you're going to be deliberately obtuse... Kate's family may be upper class, but they are not the 'entitlement by birth' royalty you despise so much. It is the dream of almost every girl to marry a prince.

    Just like any girl getting married, she deserves an absolutely amazing day, everything she ever dreamed, and she has that chance.

    I used the word 'poor' to mean unfortunate. Unfortunate that people like you whom she has never met or said a bad thing against would despise her so much so that they would want to ruin her day for political capital and to gain media air time.

    I don't usually say this lightly, but people like that absoultely disgust me.
    I forgot that amazing wedding days involve costing the economy £3 billion. :rofl:

    And she doesn't care if we 'despise' her or not. She's hardly going to be crying herself to sleep at night thinking about what a couple of people struggling to make a day in this country thinks. For the record, we do not 'despise' her as a person, but for what she represents.

    (Original post by marcusfox)
    Who cares. Were these same millionaires working behind the counter? Do they lose a day's pay because the shop was closed for damage repair?
    I'm starting to wonder whether you've done a days work before in your life. Those people did not lose a day's worth of pay.

    (Original post by marcusfox)
    I dunno. What was the point of the protest then? The fact that people don't like their services being cut? And this is news to who exactly?
    Could we please not go into the deatils about what the March protest was about? There are already numerous threads on this and the purpose of this thread is to act as a defence on the legitimacy of 'violent' protests when campaigning for something as a whole.
    (I'll edit this into my OP as well).
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    (Original post by hollywoodbudgie)
    I forgot that amazing wedding days involve costing the economy £3 billion. :rofl:
    Depends how amazing you want it. Besides, I think you'll find that the vast majority of people will be pleased that they get the extra day off work and being paid for it. I know I am.

    Perhaps these extra wages having to be paid out by companies for no productive input will make up for all that tax evasion you people like to keep going on about.

    Funny how you go on about the bourgeoisie and privileged rich getting away with it on one hand and then with the other you moan about those poor companies losing money due to the wedding.

    (Original post by hollywoodbudgie)
    And she doesn't care if we 'despise' her or not. She's hardly going to be crying herself to sleep at night thinking about what a couple of people struggling to make a day in this country thinks. For the record, we do not 'despise' her as a person, but for what she represents.
    I'm sure she doesn't. But she would if a bunch of people turn up and start shouting abuse at her wedding. As would you, if it were your wedding. Such behaviour can't in the slightest be justified.

    Nevertheless, I have a feeling that unlike you, the majority of protesters 'against da Tory cuts' have some sort of morality, and will leave the wedding alone. That should leave the extremely large numbers of police and other security services more than a match for you and the few other amoral idiots who want to engage in that sort of behaviour.

    (Original post by hollywoodbudgie)
    I'm starting to wonder whether you've done a days work before in your life. Those people did not lose a day's worth of pay.
    If you are employed on an hourly rate as most retail staff are, then your employer will almost certainly not pay you for time not worked. The nicer ones will probably allow you to take the day as part of your paid holiday allowance, but usually it's a case of no work, no pay.

    Whatever the reason, if staff can't work the day, its lost time and wages for the staff if they couldn't work because the building they were working in gets trashed.

    Besides, you seem so concerned about losses to the economy due to a royal wedding, but not losses to the economy when your bunch of thugs goes about smashing up London. Just a little bit of hypocrisy there maybe?

    (Original post by hollywoodbudgie)
    Could we please not go into the deatils about what the March protest was about? There are already numerous threads on this and the purpose of this thread is to act as a defence on the legitimacy of 'violent' protests when campaigning for something as a whole.
    (I'll edit this into my OP as well).
    Perhaps you can also explain why if violent protest is justified, a police response that involves any element of force is unjustified? That should be good for a few laughs.

    Yes, indeed, nothing recruits the 'don't knows' to your cause like destroying property and terrorising innocent people.

    The only lessons the government are learning from the violence we saw in London is that it needs considering whether to invite the Army to perform security duties along with bean bag rounds, rubber bullets, water cannon and tear gas.

    Let the police steward the legitimate protesters and leave the Army to deal with the morons. I guarantee you that the likes of Tarquin Cholmondley-Smythe won't turn up to the next protest if he's had a bean bag in the family jewels and a lungful of CS.

    Violence begets violence. Is that what you want?
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    There's a difference between being a threat and deliberatley antagonising. Gosh :rolleyes:

    Did you read the evidence on the case? Tomlinson didn't appear to be involved in the protests and was trying to get home. He approach the police with his hands in his pockets and no witness has concluded that he behaved in a manner antagonistic towards the police. Nor does the video suggest such behaviour.

    And yet you refer to the Police as 'pigs'. That's what I meant when I said can't we keep it civil. The Police do good work in this country, and for you to dissparrage them so is, quite frankly abhorrent.

    It's called freedom of speech. She can call police whatever she likes. Just as you can call her whatever you like. Calling police 'pigs' isn't the same as being violent.




    :rolleyes: That's not what I'm saying. But as a peaceful protester ( :rolleyes: ) surely you must agree that violent protesters should not be hidden behind your ranks? Lest you all be tarred with the same brush, a little self policing could make the whole thing a lot more pleasant.

    I'd agree with self policing tbh, would be a lot less injuries

    None at that protest. But that'd be the protective gear and whatnot. Tell me how many protesters had bricks, bottles and fenceposts thrown at them?

    Having something thrown at you is not the same has having you skull cracked open.


    Naive as **** my dear, naive as ****.

    Go to a protest and observe how the police behave (towards unarmed, non violent people especially under 18s and females) and then tell me who's naive.

    Before I went to a protest and saw the way the police behaved towards non violent people, I simply didn't believe it would ever happen in the UK. I thought the police were there to protect the public and the 'good guys' to defend law and order. I just watched the news as assumed anybody who got hurt or was arrested must have done something wrong. I didn't believe the police would actually harm somebody, but after attending a protest, my eyes have been opened.
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