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    For those people actually interested in studies and proof of what causes sexual harassment, assault and coercion rather than just proving that clearly, you're right, no matter what you might do worse than to use your university's journal search to find "Sexual coercion and the misperception of sexual intent" (If you need more search details, Author: Farris, Coreen; Viken, Richard J; McFall, Richard M; Treat, Teresa A Clinical psychology review Vol: 28 Issue: 1 ISSN: 0272-7358 Date: 2008 Pages: 48 - 66 ) It's not an easy read (I just lost a good deal of my afternoon reading it) but it DOES quote several studies (along with notes on which ones might have less good data analysis and how each one was conducted, and the samples used) and goes into a good amount of detail. It's peer-reviewed also.

    I am not even going to ATTEMPT to summarise it because I would garble it (way too much detailed analysis there), but if you can't get it and want a read PM me and I can email you a copy? (that's allowed, right?)
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    (Original post by foreveranon)
    The problem is that your "common knowledge" is based on assumption and what would make you most likely to view someone as a target.

    Yes, okay, some guys might go for someone with more flesh on view figuring that they're asking for it.

    BUT

    Some guys might go for the timid-looking more fully dressed woman in a corner, figuring that the other woman? Dressed like that she's more likely to make a scene. They want the one who's likely to run or be quiet than the other woman. They get off on her being scared.

    Some guys might go for the assertive woman, no matter how she's dressed. She's too assertive after all. Needs taking down a peg or two. They get off on humiliating someone they see as being too big for her boots.

    Some guys might go for the one who clearly has no interest in men. How dare she not flirt with them? How dare she not be interested in them? Their pride is hurt and they want revenge.

    Some guys might go for the one who is flirting with everyone on the floor. After all, she's clearly up for it, the slut. If she doesn't like what she gets for acting like that, she's got only herself to blame.

    Some guys might go for the one who is clearly too young to be there. After all, complaining would mean admitting she wasn't where she was meant to be.

    The list goes on (and on and on). Common sense isn't, because once you're talking about someone who thinks of another person as someone they have a right to touch without permission you are not talking about you. You are talking about a predator, and predators all have different motives and different people that they choose to prey on. And yes, this applies to the people who yell (maybe some of them don't think they upset people, maybe some of them think it is a joke, sure, yes, but some of them laugh at not with their victims and some WANT victims who are dressing to avoid them, people who look scared) and the people who grope and the people who rape. Which is why I keep telling you to check your statistics.
    Then we'll just agree to disagree. Everyone is different. So OBVIOUSLY, the "predators" will have different types of women they like to "attack". I was just making one of many suggestions that can help the typical girl out there in the world evade the eyes of the "predators". It's obviously random and unfortunate when they are sexually assaulted. But that's what the law and the police are there for. To help put the real sexual offenders behind bars.

    But the anti-harassment group ain't going to remove the problem, as I told you earlier, because it's already socially unacceptable to harass women and people have better things to do with their time than to ***** and moan on a website. Not every one cares whether someone is being harassed or not. Not everyone will have the courage/sense to do something about it. The only way to remove the problem is to add some legislation. Make some laws to tackle the problem. But that can't happen in our free society, can it? So what can you do then? Like I've said a dozen times, DEAL with it. Ignore those men/"predators" and move on with your life. End of the story.

    EDIT: But if it'll make you and other women feel better, then feel free to support that group.
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    (Original post by edd360)
    So not long before it will be illegal to go up to a girl and politely ask for her number

    "OH MY GOD STOP HARASSING ME"

    Can't they see it's all relative? All this will do is condition people into thinking that standard wolf whistling and arse grabbing is as bad as rape, as *****es keep getting *****ier and *****ier until we are no longer allowed to have sex with them, dooming all of mankind.
    What are you talking about?

    There's nothing wrong with asking a polite question. Asking someone to 'show us your tits' is not acceptable.

    And no, wolf whistling and groping isn't as bad as rape, but why the hell should it be tolerated:confused:

    What's *****y about not wanting to get groped or talked to in a lewd way:confused:
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    (Original post by edd360)
    So not long before it will be illegal to go up to a girl and politely ask for her number

    "OH MY GOD STOP HARASSING ME"

    Can't they see it's all relative? All this will do is condition people into thinking that standard wolf whistling and arse grabbing is as bad as rape, as *****es keep getting *****ier and *****ier until we are no longer allowed to have sex with them, dooming all of mankind.
    Obviously that is extreme. But this is how far some feminists will be willing to go lol. "Oh women are the world's greatest victims. Oh woe is them!"

    Well I got news for ya: men also have some problems as well. But do we cry about it and throw our toys out of the pram because a group of women shouted "Hi handsome!" No. We get on with our lives and not moan about it on some website/forum.
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    This is a very complex problem.

    Women have to realise that if you dress provocatively you will of course get a reaction, hence why you dress like that. If you don't want the reaction then think about the reasons for wearing those clothes in the first place.

    However I do think some men do need to learn some respect and do harass women even when they wear more then acceptable clothing.

    But the reasons behind this is that some men have very little respect for women which is terrible but sadly expected in this culture were women are not expected to achieve much and many female role models are nothing short of an utter ****ing joke. This is not helped by many women have a lower general knowledge then men and lacking hobbies with their closest thing to an interest is trawling through facebook or texting their friends.


    ...in short, British culture needs a complete revamp.
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    (Original post by rlw31)
    What are you talking about?

    There's nothing wrong with asking a polite question. Asking someone to 'show us your tits' is not acceptable.

    And no, wolf whistling and groping isn't as bad as rape, but why the hell should it be tolerated:confused:

    What's *****y about not wanting to get groped or talked to in a lewd way:confused:
    You are so naive, the entirety of your post proves my point so well I genuinely think it was deliberate. That or I don't think you even understood my post and the point I was trying to make.
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    (Original post by edd360)
    You are so naive, the entirety of your post proves my point so well I genuinely think it was deliberate. That or I don't think you even understood my post and the point I was trying to make.
    Let me guess, you think a campaign that aims to make public harassment more socially unacceptable is going to somehow make people think that wolf whistling and groping as bad as sex, or that it will somehow make it wrong to ask a woman a normal, non-lewd question in public.
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    Guys I do not blame this feminists for how they think its not really there fault you see from a young age we males are brought up to get over it , to get over being bullied , to stop crying , to stop moaning why because we are told its not masculine we are brought up and conditioned to get on with it.

    Why? because society needed it at some point in human history and kind of still does society brings man up to be the sex to get over it to be the one who puts there life at risk in war to do the dangerous occupations usually done by males.

    Where as woman are brought up to think a knight in shining armour will save them brought up to play with dolls in order that they be good mothers. But you see here is there problem now things have changed and woman when they reach lets say there adolescent years are now taught that they can be anything just like the males are told.

    This is'nt wrong advice we can all be anything and we should all be brought up to aim for whatever we want to be however this must conflict with all the years of being brought up to play with a doll instead of get on with it which we males get.

    Could it simply be that its not in a woman's nature to get on with it?
    I think not a woman can get on with it as many single mothers and woman in bad situations such as abusive relationships do. However unless they change the way a woman is raised from a young age getting on with it is not something she will understand why? cause shes not brought up to get on with it.

    I really mean no offence to woman with this view this is just what i think after what I have read and experienced.
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    (Original post by Cable)
    Then we'll just agree to disagree. Everyone is different. So OBVIOUSLY, the "predators" will have different types of women they like to "attack". I was just making one of many suggestions that can help the typical girl out there in the world evade the eyes of the "predators". It's obviously random and unfortunate when they are sexually assaulted. But that's what the law and the police are there for. To help put the real sexual offenders behind bars.
    Yeah, that's the problem. It's a suggestion... but it doesn't always actually work. What it can do though is make women who are targeted feel responsible.

    For example, despite this whole discussion I very rarely dress anything CLOSE to provocative. I'm a jeans and t-shirt or jumper girl at home and a trouser-suit girl at work. The most provocatively dressed you'll see me is maybe a knee-length dress.

    BUT I have big boobs. Not my fault, I didn't ask for big boobs but there they are stuck to my chest. And formal dress for work requires shirts. And if you have big boobs there are VERY FEW shirts which don't either look slightly transparent or low-cut and those which there are are not cheap (I have an interview next week, clothes shopping has reminded me that manufacturers hate me). This means that finding work clothes which don't shout "I HAVE BOOBS" is really hard.

    And some guys WILL take that as a come on. Oh god, will they. So, you do try and cover up because hey, must be my fault. I have boobs after all.

    It hit the point where I was wearing a white t-shirt under every blouse. It looked odd, I cooked in summer and... I still got the attention. Because the boobs were STILL THERE under the clothes and the guys hadn't changed. They were still UTTERLY FINE with what they were doing. All that had changed was that I was spending 30 minutes every morning scrutinising my wardrobe, trying to find the least sexy blouse possible.

    Do you understand what I mean? I understand your advice is well-intentioned, I do, and it IS based on an incredibly common myth but in reality what can result is women getting horribly insecure about they wear so they can at least say whatever happens is NOT THEIR FAULT and the behaviour carrying on regardless.
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    (Original post by Mancini)
    I think not a woman can get on with it as many single mothers and woman in bad situations such as abusive relationships do. However unless they change the way a woman is raised from a young age getting on with it is not something she will understand why? cause shes not brought up to get on with it.

    I really mean no offence to woman with this view this is just what i think after what I have read and experienced.
    ....

    I really hope that you didn't just argue that a woman continuing with an abusive relationship and ignoring it was a good model that other women should aim for.

    Please re-interpret what you just said in a way which doesn't read that way because right now I'm staring at you in some horror.
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    (Original post by edd360)
    So not long before it will be illegal to go up to a girl and politely ask for her number

    "OH MY GOD STOP HARASSING ME"

    Can't they see it's all relative? All this will do is condition people into thinking that standard wolf whistling and arse grabbing is as bad as rape, as *****es keep getting *****ier and *****ier until we are no longer allowed to have sex with them, dooming all of mankind.
    No.. just, no.
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    (Original post by foreveranon)
    ....

    I really hope that you didn't just argue that a woman continuing with an abusive relationship and ignoring it was a good model that other women should aim for.

    Please re-interpret what you just said in a way which doesn't read that way because right now I'm staring at you in some horror.
    Forever anon of course I don't mean a woman should stick to an abusive relationship but gettting on with it in this situation does'nt mean sticking with a man that treats you like that it means getting out of this abusive relationship and making a better life for yourself. I cant believe you can think so cynically of me as if I have wrote anything that would make you think thats how I am.You pick a quote and paint it how you want to paint it.
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    (Original post by rlw31)
    Let me guess, you think a campaign that aims to make public harassment more socially unacceptable is going to somehow make people think that wolf whistling and groping as bad as sex, or that it will somehow make it wrong to ask a woman a normal, non-lewd question in public.
    Well I'll try to address your first point, although I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say. Do you mean "whistling and groping are as bad as sex" ? If so, I still don't really know what you mean, because sex isn't bad, and I never said it was, and if you are trying to argue that it is well you are just silly.

    And to answer your second point, yes I do think that. Do you think back when women couldn't vote and had hardly any rights they would think twice about being whistled at? Nope. Do they now? Yes.They would probably take is as a compliment back then. If the worst thing for them to worry about now is being whistled at, then they would have no reason to be concerned about someone casually asking for their number. Once they have nothing to complain about and got what they want, they will then need to draw attention some other way. That's when they will start to act the same when you ask for their number, or say they have nice eyes.

    Because when you think about it, saying to someone that they have nice boobs is no different to saying they have nice eyes. Yet at the minute they are perceived completely differently, and I'm talking opposite ends of the spectrum.
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    (Original post by Tommyjw)
    No.. just, no.
    People stopped saying that years ago. Hell I was saying it on msn in year 7 8 years ago. What do you even mean by it? If you just left your message as "no", that would have been just no, I would have been able to tell you were not offering any further comment from your lack of it. Just people stopped saying that years ago. Hell I was saying it on msn in year 7 8 years ago. What do you even mean by it? If you just left your message as "no", that would have been just no, I would have been able to tell you were not offering any further comment from your lack of it.
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    (Original post by edd360)
    Well I'll try to address your first point, although I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say. Do you mean "whistling and groping are as bad as sex" ? If so, I still don't really know what you mean, because sex isn't bad, and I never said it was, and if you are trying to argue that it is well you are just silly.
    Sorry, I meant to say rape, as you had said in your first post.

    And to answer your second point, yes I do think that. Do you think back when women couldn't vote and had hardly any rights they would think twice about being whistled at? Nope. Do they now? Yes.They would probably take is as a compliment back then. If the worst thing for them to worry about now is being whistled at, then they would have no reason to be concerned about someone casually asking for their number. Once they have nothing to complain about and got what they want, they will then need to draw attention some other way. That's when they will start to act the same when you ask for their number, or say they have nice eyes.
    So because once upon a time women weren't allowed to vote, it means that we can't complain about anything now?

    Because when you think about it, saying to someone that they have nice boobs is no different to saying they have nice eyes. Yet at the minute they are perceived completely differently, and I'm talking opposite ends of the spectrum.
    Well, yes they are quite different, but simply saying that isn't harassment, do you know what harassment means?
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    (Original post by edd360)
    People stopped saying that years ago. Hell I was saying it on msn in year 7 8 years ago. What do you even mean by it? If you just left your message as "no", that would have been just no, I would have been able to tell you were not offering any further comment from your lack of it. Just people stopped saying that years ago. Hell I was saying it on msn in year 7 8 years ago. What do you even mean by it? If you just left your message as "no", that would have been just no, I would have been able to tell you were not offering any further comment from your lack of it.
    Well, no, i've seen it said many times over the past few years. Thousands of times.

    So, infact, it did not 'stop.

    The term 'stopped saying that' shows that it would have literally been stopped, no1 would have ever said it again.

    But they have, lots of times.

    Have i bursted your bubble?
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    (Original post by rlw31)
    So because once upon a time women weren't allowed to vote, it means that we can't complain about anything now?
    I never said you couldn't complain. More that...you're always complaining. You are taking advantage of political correctness by being expected to be treated better. You will take all that you can get to feel superior amongst males, and never be happy with it. Like the cartoon in the OP's post, wolf whistling used to be perfectly acceptable. And now it seems as though it isn't. How far are you going to take it? Will there be a time when we can no longer compliment you at all? EVEN THOUGH you CLEARLY like the attention and the compliments.


    (Original post by rlw31)
    Well, yes they are quite different, but simply saying that isn't harassment, do you know what harassment means?
    Go on then, do explain to me why they are different. From where I'm sitting, I am picking a specific genotype of the girls phenotype, and saying it looks nice.

    In fact, I will go even further. If I were to objectively asses this example, this is how it looks to me "you have nice boobs" - I am complementing what you use to feed your offspring. I am essentially saying you will be able to feed your offspring well and their chances of survival will increase. You would make a good mother. I am sexually attracted to breasts because I know that a mate with good breasts is a good one, better genes, survival of the fittest.

    If anything, this should be more of a compliment then saying "you have nice eyes". What could I be saying there? "your ability to interpret light more clearly from greater distances turns me on". Whatever, it's not really the point.

    The point is, why is complementing a girls tits different to complementing their eyes, or ears, or strains of hair?

    And by looking at it I don't think you know what harassment means. Many employers would probably be sued for sexual harassment if they said anything like "you have nice boobs" to an employee.
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    (Original post by Tommyjw)
    Well, no, i've seen it said many times over the past few years. Thousands of times.

    So, infact, it did not 'stop.

    The term 'stopped saying that' shows that it would have literally been stopped, no1 would have ever said it again.

    But they have, lots of times.

    Have i bursted your bubble?
    I don't even really know what your talking about or why you are telling me the things you are? What relevance is it to anything?
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    (Original post by edd360)
    I don't even really know what your talking about or why you are telling me the things you are? What relevance is it to anything?
    Because your whole post to me was about thefact i said 'No, just no' to one of your comments, so i thought i'd give you a whole reply back about it, cuz you seem to like to talk about it, else why would you put a whole paragrpah about it?
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    (Original post by Tommyjw)
    Because your whole post to me was about thefact i said 'No, just no' to one of your comments, so i thought i'd give you a whole reply back about it, cuz you seem to like to talk about it, else why would you put a whole paragrpah about it?
    >one line, copied and pasted to form 2 lines

    >"whole paragraph"

    >laughing_girls.jpg
 
 
 
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