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    (Original post by limetang)
    I was refering to common sense. A gun makes you a bigger threat to someone elses life therefore they are more likely to kill you if they feel that your being alive is a significant threat to their life.
    Well, they're rather more likely to run away. Then they don't die, and don't risk getting banged-up for murder.
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    (Original post by Hardballer)
    Japan has one of the highest if not the highest suicide rate and the second most restrictive gun laws in the world after north korea and perhaps china
    Hey I thought it had been decided that you werent allowed to use country statistics unless you compared every country in the world... otherwise you're just cherrypicking surely?
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    (Original post by MarcusTheEskimo)
    I would argue that gun crime rates by themselves mean nothing. Country A could have high murder rates and low gun crime rates. Country B could have low murder rates and high gun crime rates. Although gun crimes aren't strictly murders, it's pretty obvious to anyone that the latter, country B, is preferable.
    I don't see any reason why an increase in gun crime rates should cause an overall decrease in murder rates though.

    Suppose guns are illegal in Country A. It has a murder rate of X, and a gun crime rate of Y.
    Now suppose guns are made legal in country A. You'd naturally expect the gun crime rate to go up. The murder rate might go up slightly - but you certainly wouldn't expect it to go down.


    So I think the comparison you're making between country A and country B isn't really relevant here. Country B hasn't really got much to do with it. In deciding whether or not guns should be legal, we should be comparing Country A pre-legalisation of guns against country A post-legalisation of guns.

    Pre-legalisation: Murder rate X, Gun crime rate Y
    Post-legalisation: Murder rate higher than X, Gun crime rate higher than Y

    In this case, Country A is preferable pre-legalisation.


    The murder rates are what they are. They're not going to be made any better by legalising guns, nor will they be made any worse by illegalising guns. However, the legality of guns does affect the gun crime rate (including non-murderous gun crime). To keep this at a minimum, guns need to be illegal.
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    Look at America.
    They have a very high murder rate, high gun crimes in general, and too many deaths caused by ACCIDENT because guns are so common.
    Guns are extremely rare in this country... Of course there are the illegal ones.
    If you are attacked in the street (mugging, rape, whatever), it will be with a knife (or something similar).. You have MUCH more chance of escaping/fighitng off someone with a knife than someone with a gun.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Look at America.
    They have a very high murder rate, high gun crimes in general, and too many deaths caused by ACCIDENT because guns are so common.
    Guns are extremely rare in this country... Of course there are the illegal ones.
    If you are attacked in the street (mugging, rape, whatever), it will be with a knife (or something similar).. You have MUCH more chance of escaping/fighitng off someone with a knife than someone with a gun.
    Haven you been to America? because I have and I can tell you I felt even safer where I was than here and you could buy a sub machine gun in a pawn shop. The avalaiblity of guns does not make a society more dangerous, only people themselves can, just look at south africa, strict gun laws and 50 murders and 350 rapes a day
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    (Original post by Hardballer)
    I'm sure he could if I was UNARMED
    And what if you're armed? Think you have what it takes to look a man in the eyes as you shoot him between them? Because if you don't then you, or your family are going to be shot a lot quicker, because I guarantee that the person robbing you is going to care a lot less about killing than you would be.
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    (Original post by Hardballer)
    Haven you been to America? because I have and I can tell you I felt even safer where I was than here and you could buy a sub machine gun in a pawn shop. The avalaiblity of guns does not make a society more dangerous, only people themselves can, just look at south africa, strict gun laws and 50 murders and 350 rapes a day
    And what about the many people who carry knives in England? Are you telling me you'd rather they carry guns? Yea that would be safe, but hey, atleast you, the hero with the gun would be there to save the day haha, I can tell you think your the only person who would buy a gun, make yourself feel all powerful?
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    (Original post by Hardballer)
    The avalaiblity of guns does not make a society more dangerous,
    Of course it does. Any home that contains a gun is an accident waiting to happen, even if the gun is used only for sporting purposes and not used against people deliberately. There are no accidental gunshot wounds in a society that doesn't have guns; there are huge numbers of such injuries and deaths in the USA.
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    For the sake of humanity and the wellbeing of everyone not just here but all over Europe and the world, please keep Britain tidy.

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    (Original post by Hardballer)
    Haven you been to America? because I have and I can tell you I felt even safer where I was than here and you could buy a sub machine gun in a pawn shop. The avalaiblity of guns does not make a society more dangerous, only people themselves can, just look at south africa, strict gun laws and 50 murders and 350 rapes a day
    I lived in America for a while.
    South Africa is hardly the same kind of place. It's partly the people yes... But you can't deny that if the USA had the same gun laws as us there would be less shootings... Quite a lot less. But it's a lot to do with the general attitude over there.
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    (Original post by Bosch)
    And what if you're armed? Think you have what it takes to look a man in the eyes as you shoot him between them? Because if you don't then you, or your family are going to be shot a lot quicker, because I guarantee that the person robbing you is going to care a lot less about killing than you would be.
    you make it sound like a showdown in a movie, if I feel my life is threatened I would unload the clip into the threat until the threat was stopped, yes I would be prepared to take a life to save my own, and its perfectly legal to do so in self defence as long as the threat presented is substantial. you telling me you wouldn't do the same? your attacker is only human like you
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    I lived in America for a while.
    South Africa is hardly the same kind of place.
    oh really????? America you can defend yourself and south africa you're gonna have to hope that your attacker doesn't want to rape and kill you after he's mugged you, which going by previous evidence is quite unlikely
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    (Original post by rockrunride)
    For the sake of humanity and the wellbeing of everyone not just here but all over Europe and the world, please keep Britain tidy.
    keep Britain tidy and the ****ty labour politicians out of parliament
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    (Original post by Hardballer)
    you make it sound like a showdown in a movie, if I feel my life is threatened I would unload the clip into the threat until the threat was stopped, yes I would be prepared to take a life to save my own, and its perfectly legal to do so in self defence as long as the threat presented is substantial. you telling me you wouldn't do the same? your attacker is only human like you
    I've never taken a human life, so I wouldn't know how I'd react when it came to that, nobody could know until they are faced with that decision. Even if it turned out that I could kill a man, who knows how good my aim would be, I have a wife and kids, what if it hit them? I wouldn't want a burglar firing shots off in my house, incase it hit one of my family, my guess is your just a kid who wants to feel like a big man with a gun, nobody else could possibly be immature enough to think that gun legalisation would be a good thing
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    (Original post by fwed1)
    Also the cost. Not just the increase in stress on the NHS with all the shootings but we would then have to arm and train all police because of the dangers.
    Not that I disagree with what you say, but I'm not sure that would be an issue, a serious one anyway. The police over here have had guns for a long, long time now, and with the recent activity, probley won't change anytime soon.
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    (Original post by Bosch)
    I've never taken a human life, so I wouldn't know how I'd react when it came to that, nobody could know until they are faced with that decision. Even if it turned out that I could kill a man, who knows how good my aim would be, I have a wife and kids, what if it hit them? I wouldn't want a burglar firing shots off in my house, incase it hit one of my family, my guess is your just a kid who wants to feel like a big man with a gun, nobody else could possibly be immature enough to think that gun legalisation would be a good thing
    theres only one logical conclusion to this. The 80 million gun owners in America are all kids
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    (Original post by Hardballer)
    theres only one logical conclusion to this. The 80 million gun owners in America are all kids
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vio..._United_States America is a stupid example

    And of course there is no answer to my other points, your arguements are filled with holes, good night
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    (Original post by Hardballer)
    I would do whats nessecary to protect my life and if that means putting a .45 in his head then so be it, not much of a survivalist are you?
    So either way, one of you dies?

    Well done, you've just doubled the likelihood of a fatality in any armed confrontation...
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    I don't think so. In America there are tons of shootings every day and that is probably because it is so easy for us to get guns. If everyone got a gun it would just turn into this big shootout that would cause even more damage.
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    (Original post by Almonds are good)
    I don't think so. In America there are tons of shootings every day and that is probably because it is so easy for us to get guns. If everyone got a gun it would just turn into this big shootout that would cause even more damage.
    So so so wrong. Everyone in Switzerland owns a gun, last time I checked it's one of the most peaceful countries on Earth, not a "big shootout" :rolleyes:
 
 
 
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