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    (Original post by teadrinker)
    Haven't bothered to read the whole tedious thread, so this point may have already been made, but:

    Almost every household owns a gun in Switzerland, yet gun crime there is almost non-existent.

    Things are not always as simple as they seem.

    Saying that, the OP is obviously a ****wit.
    you douchebag! I only read the first two sentences before repping you! :mad:
    backstabbed me on the last line :mad:
    and yeh I'm obviously a @{*wit
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Here are some gun accidents where the shooter seems to follow your foolproof safety rules:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okzKO8x6XGY

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr3zlll0prA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7GyYrJMd4s

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzqJ78sGIPk

    http://www.draftsmen.com/videos-gun-...l-m4i4M%5D.cfm

    Even you must agree that some these were dangerous situations that only avoided injury by sheer good luck. If nothing else, these videos illustrate how ownership of weapons does not guarantee either intelligent use of them or even commonsense around them.
    the first video is an excerpt from a video of people testing a very high calibre rifle, what happened wasn't an accident as they knew beforehand the recoil may knock them off balance, and it was a bolt action weapon so only one shot would be forced before it gets cocked manually. Sure people have to careful with full autos but cars are dangerous as well and people use them irresponsibly, lets ban them? fourth video down is hilarious
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    Please stop using Switzerland as an example in favour of anti-gun control opinions. It does not work, especially when comparing the situation in the country to large nations with different societies like the US & UK. There are also many gun laws in Switzerland people know little of.

    Saying Switzerland is awash with guns is true, but the vast majority of the weapons are military-issues rifles. To obtain them you have to participate in compulsory military service – a very long tradition in Swiss Cantons with no history US or the UK. Indeed, this is what I believe the second amendment alluded to – not the almost unregulated sale of weapons to the general public. Discipline with weapons is drilled into you during service if you haven’t already got it from your parents.

    Leading on, there is gun control in Switzerland. You need to carry a licence (and all the background checks and registration that entails) to own a non-military firearm like a hunting rifle or a pistol. Indeed, handgun ownership in Switzerland is tightly regulated and ownership rates are very low – it is rifle ownership which is high. It is semi-automatic and easily concealable pistols which cause most of the gun-related deaths in western countries.

    I should also add that in the last few years, the military no longer gives soldiers ammunition for their military rifles (popular referendum backed this move). You can only buy it and then use it up on the same day at the shooting range. Indeed, you can’t go into the woods and shoot a few rounds with either your rifle or pistol – it has to be at supervised designated ranges which are open at specific times during the week. Hunts with hunting rifles are also highly regulated affairs with specific quotas, dates and standards set annually by cantonal authorities.

    Any Swiss you ask will not correlate high gun ownership with low crime rates. One very seldom carries firearms in public (only to the shooting range if at all) and they are not considered deterrents against criminals. The answers you’d receive are socio-economic. It helps having a small, very wealthy and highly educated population with an efficient and effective government & policing. Moreover, I would say there is a culture of respect for firearms and firearm safety in Switzerland ingrained into the national culture which is non-existent in the US.
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    (Original post by Vanbrugh)
    I should also add that in the last few years, the military no longer gives soldiers ammunition for their military rifles (popular referendum backed this move). You can only buy it and then use it up on the same day at the shooting range.
    I don't buy this, even here you can keep your shotgun and rifle ammo at home
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    (Original post by Hardballer)
    guns haven't killed anybody, only people are capable of that
    Yeah, you're right. **** it, let's give everyone access to nukes.
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    (Original post by Hardballer)
    I don't buy this, even here you can keep your shotgun and rifle ammo at home
    It sounds perfectly reasonable however i have no idea if this is true or not- it seems a little irrelevant. Having said this why would you assume it is unreasonable based on what WE can and cannot do? I believe the OP you quote has gone to considerable effort to show that you cannot infact make a valid comparison!
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    compare our gun crime per capita to the americans.

    its far lower

    im getting sick of all of there threads saying we need to protect ourselfs, we need guns bull****

    how would you prevent a shooting like that

    you are saying "I saw someone shout, i best shoot him before he shoots me"
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    (Original post by Planto)
    Yeah, you're right. **** it, let's give everyone access to nukes.
    are you retarded? we're talking about weapons you can defend yourself with personally? you gonna nuke a mugger asking for your cash?
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    (Original post by Hardballer)
    I don't buy this, even here you can keep your shotgun and rifle ammo at home
    It is against the rules on TSR to write in a foreign language without a translation so, to help you out, I will supply one for this:

    Hm, your facts seem not to help my case, which has used the Swiss as an example of a high gun ownership society with little gun crime.
    It appears the Swiss don't allow their gun owners to keep ammunition. How inconvenient for those that thought they have a low gun accident rate, and how inconvenient for those that want to justify ownership on the grounds of seld defence.

    Perhaps we should change our gun laws, and eliminate all ammunition in the home.
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    (Original post by Dan3va)
    compare our gun crime per capita to the americans.

    its far lower

    im getting sick of all of there threads saying we need to protect ourselfs, we need guns bull****

    how would you prevent a shooting like that

    you are saying "I saw someone shout, i best shoot him before he shoots me"
    oh so I can't mention switzerland but you guys can mention America every other ****ing post, yes free men shouldn't have to ask to bear arms, else they are slaves, thats the point im trying to make
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    It is against the rules on TSR to write in a foreign language without a translation so, to help you out, I will supply one for this:



    It appears the Swiss don't allow their gun owners to keep ammunition. How inconvenient for those that thought they have a low gun accident rate, and how inconvenient for those that want to justify ownership on the grounds of seld defence.

    Perhaps we should change our gun laws, and eliminate all ammunition in the home.
    I keep my shotgun ammo at home and I haven't had any accidents, you're just assuming everyones a moron who can't even cross the road without accidently jumping into a bus windscreen. Every firearm owner in this country keeps their ammo at home, is that plain enough english for you good sir? you need help interpreting that? theres 800,000 firearms owners in this country all with their ammo at home. How many accidents you hear of?
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    (Original post by Hardballer)
    free men shouldn't have to ask to bear arms, else they are slaves, thats the point im trying to make
    Yet Europe is peopled with those who consider themselves free, and few of them have the right to carry loaded weapons in the streets of Europe, not even the Swiss. I think you are the one with the problem.
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    (Original post by Hardballer)
    I don't buy this, even here you can keep your shotgun and rifle ammo at home
    Tranditionally the Swiss army gave you tins of ammunition for your rifle when you left military service. This is no longer done.

    *Edit* Found an article: http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Specials...tml?cid=970614

    You can keep ammunition for other non-military weapons at home. However, as said, these weapons are in a minority.

    I am swiss and keep my service rifle at home without any ammo.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Yet Europe is peopled with those who consider themselves free, and few of them have the right to carry loaded weapons in the streets of Europe, not even the Swiss. I think you are the one with the problem.
    well the czech's have the right to coneal carry in their country, actually thats one country I haven't mentioned much. Czech republic has extremely liberal gun laws yet the murder rate there is quite low as well. Conceal carry a handgun is permitted and shotguns and low calibre rifles don't require registration. Low capacity shotguns don't require registration either, same here before 1968, over the counter item and yet back then gun crime was lower as well :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Vanbrugh)
    Tranditionally the Swiss army gave you tins of ammunition for your rifle when you left military service. This is no longer done.

    You can keep ammunition for other non-military weapons at home. However, as said, these weapons are in a minority.

    I am swiss and keep my service rifle at home without any ammo.
    well it doesn't make sense as the point of the militia is to be able to mobilise a large army within 24 hours and without ammo for your weapons what are you going to do? I know the swiss leftist parties have been trying to clamp down on freedoms lately but still
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    (Original post by Hardballer)
    I keep my shotgun ammo at home and I haven't had any accidents
    So what exactly is this thread trying to prove. Yes, it is legal to own a firearm given you follow the correct procedure. The fac is just a way to ensure general safety- That it is safely stored, and to screen anyone who may pose a risk. If you have committed a crime which exempts you from owning a gun and you REALLY enjoy it as a sport, join a gun club and use the club guns.
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    (Original post by L-J-B)
    So what exactly is this thread trying to prove. Yes, it is legal to own a firearm given you follow the correct procedure. The fac is just a way to ensure general safety- That it is safely stored, and to screen anyone who may pose a risk. If you have committed a crime which exempts you from owning a gun and you REALLY enjoy it as a sport, join a gun club and use the club guns.
    Yes but we need a constitutional right to bear arms, and also people need a way to defend themselves on the street, even with just a taser or cs spray
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    (Original post by Hardballer)
    Yes but we need a constitutional right to bear arms,
    I don't think many agree with you. Most of us would rather have a constitutional right to come nowhere near anyone with a weapon.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    I don't think many agree with you. Most of us would rather have a constitutional right to come nowhere near anyone with a weapon.
    you don't have that right, criminals don't obey the laws
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    We have had a right to bear arms. Its just been brought up to date to stop every idiot bearing arms, or from people getting guns for no good reason. I think you read too many tabloids if you truly believe people 'on da streeeeet' need guns for protection. Anyone involved in anything that requires a gun for protection isnt going to worry about licensing.

    How would you (OP specifically) control the right to bear arms. What age limit would you give it? What level of mental state would be required. How about people who have in the past commited crimes. Would some ex-cons be able to but not others? This isnt rhetorical as such, im genuinely interested what youd do different...
 
 
 
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