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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    Afghanistan - We now have NATO behind it. To bring Libya in too, we are doing the right thing to aid the suffering of others.

    The EU - I don't know. It has good and bad points. The free movement of people and trade is a good thing, the annual cost of it is not. We could perhaps arrange a better deal.

    The Economy - We have an annual funding shortfall of £150bn, is the better solution to simply cut our spending by that amount or to take out an annual loan of that figure, which will slowly build up into the trillions? If the government think they can sort that deficit by 2014, then they should try. For too long our governments have had too much of a short-term view, I think the long-term prosperity of the country is more important. If all we need is to endure 3 more years of hardship to potentially have decades of prosperity, that's fine with me. The cuts are not 'ideological', any kind of spending cut will intrinsically hurt the poor more than the rich, as that's where the spending traditionally goes.
    On the banks, yes it's a problem, but we have no choice but to appease them. Our economy is finance dependent, we can no longer rely on manufacture or mining as developing countries can undercut us. London is the finance capital of the world, and that's the direction we need to steer the economy to survive, if you stick heavy regulation on the banks then they will withdraw from London and be headquartered instead in the East and America, and then we really will be finished.
    You are just repeating what the mainstream media drum into your head every day, none of it is true. It's all an illusion to make you think everything is okay and you're being looked after.

    I don't mean to offend you, because I used to believe in it all too, so don't get angry.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    You are just repeating what the mainstream media drum into your head every day, none of it is true. It's all an illusion to make you think everything is okay and you're being looked after.

    I don't mean to offend you, because I used to believe in it all too, so don't get angry.
    The deficit is verified by tax receipts, Libya/Afghanistan are verified by local accounts

    I take it you are referring more to the police state here?
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    The deficit is verified by tax receipts, Libya/Afghanistan are verified by local accounts

    I take it you are referring more to the police state here?
    No, it's hard to explain. It's not about individual issues, in order to understand it you have to see the bigger picture and realise that governments have very little power and our democracy is meaningless.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    No, it's hard to explain. It's not about individual issues, in order to understand it you have to see the bigger picture and realise that governments have very little power and our democracy is meaningless.
    Very true. A nation is controlled by the same people who control their money.
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    Do any of you know who Danny Shine is? His stuff was very inspirational. The other guy is just way too aggressive.
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    Afghanistan - We now have NATO behind it. To bring Libya in too, we are doing the right thing to aid the suffering of others.

    The EU - I don't know. It has good and bad points. The free movement of people and trade is a good thing, the annual cost of it is not. We could perhaps arrange a better deal.

    The Economy - We have an annual funding shortfall of £150bn, is the better solution to simply cut our spending by that amount or to take out an annual loan of that figure, which will slowly build up into the trillions? If the government think they can sort that deficit by 2014, then they should try. For too long our governments have had too much of a short-term view, I think the long-term prosperity of the country is more important. If all we need is to endure 3 more years of hardship to potentially have decades of prosperity, that's fine with me. The cuts are not 'ideological', any kind of spending cut will intrinsically hurt the poor more than the rich, as that's where the spending traditionally goes.
    On the banks, yes it's a problem, but we have no choice but to appease them. Our economy is finance dependent, we can no longer rely on manufacture or mining as developing countries can undercut us. London is the finance capital of the world, and that's the direction we need to steer the economy to survive, if you stick heavy regulation on the banks then they will withdraw from London and be headquartered instead in the East and America, and then we really will be finished.
    Why Libya then, and not Bahrain or Egypt or some of the other countries that are in the process of revolution, or one of the countless other countries with dictators worse than Gaddafi?

    And so what exactly is the point of the Afghan war? Because from my point of view about 50 or so people have died directly due to terrorism in this country in the last ten years. Nearly 400 British troops have been killed in Afghanistan, hundreds if not thousands more civilians and we're still not any closer to some sort of resolution. It doesn't make sense. Also, out of curiosity, how much does the war in Afghanistan cost the Government, or does it make money from the war?

    We have an annual funding shortfall of £150bn but how much is our actual debt? Far, far higher, a crippling amount. This is why the system is completely and utterly wrong. And in order to cut the deficit then they should first be looking at leaving the EU and to stop funding wars before cutting healthcare and education. I mean how are job cuts, education cuts, pensions cuts, etc going to leave this country in the next 5-10 years. And as far as being financial capital of the world then yeah sure, let them all dodge their taxes over here, it's only a matter of time before the banks move anyway.
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    Do any of you know who Danny Shine is? His stuff was very inspirational. The other guy is just way too aggressive.
    Yeah, have you seen his census stuff, or the video of him and the policeman on the bike?
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    Guys, check out this video I found. It shows there is a face made of crystal on the moon and that proves this mayan calendar theory that the world will end next year. I didn't believe it at first but when I watched the video it made a lot of sense.

    Oh wait..

    Yes, it's all a bit of fun to think there's really some "deeper" reality below something, in fact it's human nature to find connections and patterns in things where there is none. Just because if you play a certain song backwards you can hear the numbers "666", it does not mean anything. Likewise, just because the government decides to engage in a war, it does not mean that they are being manipulated and controlled by a financial dictator.
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    This guy looks like you're typical Speakers Corner type with the typical generic 'truth and love' ideals.

    'Upon graduation, I promised myself I would never wear a suit, nor would I work in an office.' How Bourgeois of him. The rest of us in the real world just have to take whatever job we can, we don't have that luxury. For most people the alternatives to a suit are either a name tag or combats.

    Seems to think he's Buddha and Che Guevara at the same time. There is no 'revolution', I don't know any working class people who support this nonsense. A couple dozen anarchists stirring up trouble and now it's a 'revolution'? This guy is having a laugh.
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    I don't mind the old Rozzers - in London, the Met is great in terms of response times...

    In Bristol they're great in terms of drugs bust ups...

    In Somerset however - they're no good and you'd do a better job walking around with a baseball bat and some cable ties
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    Calling the police slaves and saying "we have all been born into a slave culture" is a bit daft.
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    (Original post by Spungo)
    Guys, check out this video I found. It shows there is a face made of crystal on the moon and that proves this mayan calendar theory that the world will end next year. I didn't believe it at first but when I watched the video it made a lot of sense.

    Oh wait..

    Yes, it's all a bit of fun to think there's really some "deeper" reality below something, in fact it's human nature to find connections and patterns in things where there is none. Just because if you play a certain song backwards you can hear the numbers "666", it does not mean anything. Likewise, just because the government decides to engage in a war, it does not mean that they are being manipulated and controlled by a financial dictator.
    How you draw a parallel between those two I don't know. And to live a life without questioning decisions, without being sceptical and being spoon-fed mainstream media just seems a bit weak to me.
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    I went to London in Jan 2010 with them for Danny's last video with Charlie. Since Danny Shine left, and they moved from Everything is OK to 'The Love Police', I've gone off them a bit. It started out as light humour, getting people to question the world they live in and not be sheep following brands and advertising and trends. But now, although it may not have been the intention, the Love Police have become a brand in itself. People follow Charlie round like sheep, and sometimes he's good and doing good work, but other times he just acts like an idiot and isn't a good role model. I still watch their videos, every now and then, although I cringe quite a bit. But if you check out the original Everything is OK videos, you'll see what they once were, and you'll see that that was a much better time in the movement. Now they're just obsessed with a revolution and the NWO.
    And whilst I hate this government because they are spoon feeding us all lies about this "debt" and "recession", just to do what Tories always wanted to do. Cut and privatise. Be the children of Thatcher.
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    Afghanistan - We now have NATO behind it. To bring Libya in too, we are doing the right thing to aid the suffering of others.

    The EU - I don't know. It has good and bad points. The free movement of people and trade is a good thing, the annual cost of it is not. We could perhaps arrange a better deal.

    The Economy - We have an annual funding shortfall of £150bn, is the better solution to simply cut our spending by that amount or to take out an annual loan of that figure, which will slowly build up into the trillions? If the government think they can sort that deficit by 2014, then they should try. For too long our governments have had too much of a short-term view, I think the long-term prosperity of the country is more important. If all we need is to endure 3 more years of hardship to potentially have decades of prosperity, that's fine with me. The cuts are not 'ideological', any kind of spending cut will intrinsically hurt the poor more than the rich, as that's where the spending traditionally goes.
    On the banks, yes it's a problem, but we have no choice but to appease them. Our economy is finance dependent, we can no longer rely on manufacture or mining as developing countries can undercut us. London is the finance capital of the world, and that's the direction we need to steer the economy to survive, if you stick heavy regulation on the banks then they will withdraw from London and be headquartered instead in the East and America, and then we really will be finished.
    To quote the best bits of Johann Hari's recent article:

    As a proportion of GDP, Britain’s national debt has been higher than it is now for 200 of the past 250 years. Since 1750, there have only been two brief 30-year periods when our debt has been lower than it is now. If we are “bust” today, as George Osborne has claimed, then we have almost always been bust. We were bust when we pioneered the Industrial Revolution. We were bust when we ruled a quarter of the world. We were bust when we beat the Nazis. We were bust when we built the NHS.

    Our debt is not high by historical standards, and it is not high by international standards. For example, Japan’s national debt is three times bigger than ours, and they are still borrowing at good rates.

    David Cameron claims that, despite these facts, they need to cut our debt by slashing our spending because the bond markets demand it. If they do not obey, then our national credit rating will be downgraded, and we will have to pay much higher interest on our debt. But here’s the flaw in that plan. That’s not what the bond markets say. Not at all. Professor Paul Krugman, the Nobel Prize-winning economist whose predictions have consistently proved right through this crisis, says Cameron is conjuring up “invisible bond vigilantes” who “don’t exist.” Who is the bond market really punishing? It’s the countries that cut too fast, and so kill their economic growth. The last two nations to be down-graded were Ireland and Spain, who followed Cameron’s script to the letter.

    Here’s what we learned during the Great Depression, when our view of economics was revolutionized by John Maynard Keynes. In a recession, private individuals like you and me, perfectly sensibly, cut back our spending. We go out less, we buy less, we save more. This causes a huge fall in private demand, and with it a huge fall in economic activity. If, at the very same time, the government cuts back, then overall demand collapses, and a recession becomes a depression. That’s why the government has to do something counter-intuitive. It has to borrow and spend more, to apply jump-leads to the economy. This prevents economic collapse. Instead of spending a fortune on dealing with mass unemployment and economic break-down, with all the misery that causes, it spends the money on restoring growth. Keynes called it “the paradox of thrift”: when the people spend less, the government has to spend more.

    Wherever it has been tried, it has worked. Look at the last Great Depression. The Great Crash of 1929 was followed by a US President, Herbert Hoover, who did everything Cameron demands. He cut spending and paid off the debt. The recession grew and grew. Then Franklin Roosevelt was elected and listened to Keynes. He ramped up spending – and unemployment fell, and the economy swelled. Then in 1936 he started listening to the Cameron debt-shriekers of his day. The result? The economy collapsed again. It was only the gigantic spending of the Second World War that finally ended it.

    It is working now. There are enough countries in the world trying enough different economic solutions that we examine them like laboratories. which countries have come out of this recession fastest? They are the ones like South Korea, which have had by far the biggest stimulus packages, paid for with (yes) higher debt. Which countries have fallen furthest and shattered most severely? The ones that tried to pay down their debts immediately with huge cuts.

    Indeed, there’s an irony here. It turns out that if all you do is fixate on paying your debt now now now, and so you smother your economic growth, you will end up not being able to pay your debts off anyway. That’s what just happened to our nearest neighbor Ireland, may she rest in peace. And it’s what has happened throughout British history. Professors Victoria Chick and Ann Pettifor conducted a detailed study of the last ten recessions, and they found that consistently “fiscal consolidation increases rather than reduces the level of public debt as a share of GDP.” Think of it this way. It’s as if tomorrow you became so panicked about your mortgage that you decided to pay it all off in one year, by ceasing to buy food and water. You get sick, and your house gets repossessed.

    So debt isn’t the problem. Debt is part of the cure. The facts suggest need to spend more, not less, to get the economy back to life – and pay back the debt in the good times, when we will be able to afford it.
 
 
 
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