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Why are people who go to war automatically declared heroes? watch

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    (Original post by nonotrly)
    Again, so your reasoning that a soldier is automatically a hero is because they risk their lives. Again, why am I not a hero for running into a road or going into the lion's enclosure at a zoo?

    Yes, in your analogy I am in an office doing my job, while they are in their work environment doing their job. Why are they heroes? Why am I not?

    Nowhere in my post have I shown a 'lack of respect' to any specific military persons. You're only saying that because I dared question that a soldier is not automatically a hero.

    There are many, many soldiers who are chavs and those who feel there are no other career options. It's become the cop-out of life somewhat: when a young 'adult' can't decide what they want to do, they join the army.

    To deny this is to deny a large chunk of Britain. Take a look at The Sun readers and the home page of Facebook (if you live in a chavvy area).

    However, nowhere have I said this was all soldiers. Don't be silly.

    Perhaps the true ignorance is yours, then, considering your cliché post and ignoring what I've written. As for respect, where is your respect for others and their views of substance then? Or for doctors and scientists who serve and protect their planet and fellow humans?
    The problem is, your view is over simplified and based on stereotypes. While there may be people out there who fit the ideas you have, they are by a long way in the minority. I've been in the Armed Forces and know the type of people you get. To a man[/woman] they are highly motivated, dedicated and very well trained. People who dossed at school, who don't care about people, who show no respect and no desire to learn new skills wouldn't get through stage one of the application, let alone basic training.

    You say it's "become a cop-out". I'd challenge this. It is viewed by many as a cop out, but it is far from it. Many positions within the Forces [several thousand of the ~180,000 people within the Armed Forces] are only open to those with specific degrees; engineering, medicine, etc. These are not people who have dossed.


    NB: the above is not the same as saying they are worthy of specific phrase, but merely correcting stereotypes and getting to an even playing field, as it were.


    Your analogy of running out into the road is not an equivalent. It is a, frankly, dumb comparison and seeing as you're doing your damnedest to hold other people to a higher standard, it is only fair that you reciprocate.
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    They are heroes because it is them fighting for this country, risking their lives.
    No, not all of them may be good people, but they are doing a good thing for this country. And although I do not think it is right for war to happen, war doesn't happen because of them, but because of the government/our country is under attack. :/
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    (Original post by Winning)
    I don't know about the UK but in Germany only highly qualified Individuals can join the armed forces. Pretty much every Bundeswehr-Soldier could have chosen a better paid and much less dangerous and stressing civilian career. They didn't. They stepped up to ,loyally serve the federal republic of Germany and to bravely defend the freedom and liberty of the german people'. The took upon them great personal sacrifice to serve a higher cause. I'm sure it's the same with british soldiers.

    If you want to call my arguement flawed that's up to you, but do yourself a favor and stick to what I actually wrote. They aren't heroes because their job is strenous but because they take his great risk and this physical and psychological stress to protect others. An athelte doesn't protect anyone and I don't think you can conpare extensive physical training with getting shot at everyday for months at a time while you're in some distant country fighting a war while your family is at home and you can't watch your little daughter grow up. Think about that for a moment.

    I pity the OP and people like him because they are so narrow-minded and self-consumed that they only care about their personal gain and don't think that there could be something bigger than themselves, something worth fighting and dying for. They are the same breed of people who would simply walk by if they'd see a woman get raped. These people couldn't even survive without better people then them, people who they despise, would fight for their safety and freedom.
    This is a really sad way to live and a complete waste. This is why I pity them.

    A coward dies a million deaths while a brave man dies just once.
    You are just defining a brave individual there, not a hero. You can use the exact same argument for soldiers that go to other countries and commit war crimes. The fact that being a soldier is a very risky job, not that well-paid and a family separator doesn't make the individual a hero. the Nazi soldiers were also really missing their family and they believed that they were doing their nation a favour..
    And..what did you mean when you went on about personal gain? We all tend to become engaged in jobs that make US happy. Say I am happy when I write, because I feel like I can make a difference to peoples' lives, and even potentially save them.
    A soldier goes to war because he feels complete when he is in the battle field because he feels that he is protecting his nation.. and that is what makes him happy.. It's all about personal gain anyway.
    I'm not saying soldiers are evil. All I'm saying is that a being a soldier doesn't necessarily make you a hero, but that it's just label. More of the government's cover-up to justify their choices that cause thousands of soldiers to die every year.
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    We've invaded Latvia? o.0


    I find your lack of geopolitics disturbing.
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    Ask any soldier, not one of them would consider themselves a hero, many of them even feel embarresed with the label they've been given.
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    The term 'hero' implies a character with aberrational courage and determination; I do not think that the whole British Army possess these qualities.
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    I certainly don't.
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    Then what does it take to be 'heroic' in your view? These men and women sent off to war zones know full well what they're risking in terms of their own safety - it surely takes a person of immense courage to be sent willingly, all the while spending months and months away from their family and home comforts, for a wage which doesn't equate to the tremendous job they do. That they're willing to put their lives on the line in the hope of bringing about peace in the long run is certainly a heroic trait in my eyes. It's just a shame there are ungrateful and ignorant individuals out there who have very little idea of what our Armed Forces actually do.
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    (Original post by nonotrly)
    So if I run into a road, I'm a hero?
    No. They are risking their lives for their country, and fighting a war for their country.

    Yes, of course there are some bad seeds in the Army, like there are in any groups, but this doesn't mean the majority of good soldiers don't deserve to be called heroes.
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    I guess 'hero' status must be earnt but to step up to serve Queen and country as part of a professional/volunteer armed forces (rather than conscripts) does show courage/dedication and I myself feel we should respect and honour this
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    (Original post by nonotrly)
    That can be argued.
    GTFO....
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    (Original post by nonotrly)
    Forget the 'news' media telling you, tell me why YOU think this.

    Someone grows up obsessed with guns, doesn't feel s/he has the intellegence to get a degree or a job, or s/he becomes a chav, and is automatically directed toward the army as their career. Why does that person then suddenly become a hero?

    If that person is a wifebeater, a bully, why do you blindly say that person is a hero?

    If George W Bush is evil, what does that make his soldiers? Heroes?

    If, to give a less complicated example, Britain invaded Latvia quite abruptly, how are the soldiers there 'defending our freedom'?

    If someone went to Afghanistan and was not called upon to do anything, why does that make him/her a hero of equal value to someone who got shot at?

    Why does someone who got shot at have a heroicness of equal value to someone who ran back into a battlefield to save a wounded soldier?

    What if one of those soldiers raped someone, before or after this? Who is the hero then?

    Why do we use the term 'hero' rather than the more accurate term 'pawn', or 'statistic'?

    Why does one become less of a hero the further away from the battlefield and being shot at they are? Why do you become a hero if you're in the front line of a controversial war shooting people, but not for being the President/Prime Minister/whatever that arranged it?

    If I go to the zoo, jump into the lion enclosure, get attacked by a lion but kill it, why does that not make me a hero?

    If someone threatens me, do I become a hero if I fight their friends because my dad told me to?

    Just wonderin'. Being a hero doesn't seem that simple to me, but I await your theories.
    You're absolutely right. The thing is though, people aren't very comfortable with the idea of thinking for themselves, that's why the media are there, so that you don't have to think but still can pretend you do.
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    (Original post by bestofyou)
    protect their family??? from whom. Assuming we are talking about the main militarys here. Who is the average soldier in the British army protecting their family from? I can guarantee you, that not one soldier who joined up in the past decade, let alone last 50years actually thought...'I want to protect my family' and joined the army.
    You are either extremely naive or just plain stupid.
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    (Original post by bestofyou)
    I never asked for the reasons why they join up. I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here. That other guy said they join up to 'protect their family' and I said protect from who?

    And one of my close friends from school is actually in the army, I don't judge him, and from my post, didn't judge anyone. However I don't give any respect or admiration to them just because they are in the British Army. I would lose respect for them if I heard they were in the army, particulary the paras.
    so....

    would you have no respect for me as I am going to be a doctor in the army.....

    I don't mind what your answer is....as long as its honest tbh....
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    Someone grows up obsessed with guns, doesn't feel s/he has the intellegence to get a degree or a job, or s/he becomes a chav, and is automatically directed toward the army as their career. Why does that person then suddenly become a hero?
    oh noes. Not all military personel are like that. It's quite sad you think that.

    And I thought this was going to be a good thread, concerning the media and the hyperbole they spew out over a job. (After all you chose to go into the military and its an occupational hazard of getting shot at)
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    (Original post by Rzc)
    If you refer back to a post I did after this one, I did say heroism must be earned. I apologize I did take this thread as a 'soldiers are not heroes' type of thread as I've seen many in the past and it annoys me.

    Of course there are many others that I respect. I in no way said I don't respect other careers such as doctors and scientists - I respect many but like I said heroism must be earned and that's the same with respect.

    You're also acting as if anyone can get in the Army. If we're stereotyping here, I'd stereotype a chav as a drug addict (bars you from entry), alcoholic (would be of great concern to employer), criminal record (also another bar depending on its seriousness) and lack of respect/motivation which would also be a negative factor in them joining the Army - therefore it's not as easy as you think. If you've ever been through military training I think you'd realize this.
    I was asking why you didn't respect doctors and scientists in the way that soldiers get big send-offs and it's a major thing when one dies. If you are of the opinion that soldiers are heroes, do you think scientists should have the same kind of affair? Or should the emphasis on soldiers be lessened?

    Some chavs get through though. If someone puts their mind to something, let alone a chav doing something physically aggressive with the prospect of firing guns, they'll do it, whoever they are. The body is the thing a chav uses best (by process of elimination versus the mind). But still, I wasn't saying all soldiers were chavs, just some, but a lot. Plus, I was also saying not everyone in the army is nice and a hero, some are nasty people who only know violence. May or may not come under the chav moniker.

    (Original post by Drewski)
    The problem is, your view is over simplified and based on stereotypes.
    No. The problem is, you're pretending I put the word 'all' in place of 'some' or even before certain words whenever I write. That is your problem.

    (Original post by Lauren Pen)
    They are heroes because it is them fighting for this country, risking their lives.
    No, not all of them may be good people, but they are doing a good thing for this country. And although I do not think it is right for war to happen, war doesn't happen because of them, but because of the government/our country is under attack. :/
    In what way are they fighting for this country? Are you saying that because you've had it said to you enough times?

    So you're saying it's not a soldier's fault s/he has to go out to another country and kill people if need be, because the government made them?

    (Original post by DJ_Black)
    We've invaded Latvia? o.0


    I find your lack of geopolitics disturbing.
    Amazing. :facepalm2:

    (Original post by Cybele)
    Then what does it take to be 'heroic' in your view? These men and women sent off to war zones know full well what they're risking in terms of their own safety - it surely takes a person of immense courage to be sent willingly, all the while spending months and months away from their family and home comforts, for a wage which doesn't equate to the tremendous job they do. That they're willing to put their lives on the line in the hope of bringing about peace in the long run is certainly a heroic trait in my eyes. It's just a shame there are ungrateful and ignorant individuals out there who have very little idea of what our Armed Forces actually do.
    It is very saddening the ignorance so vehemently spouted bu the pro-armed forces, or pro-war. It seems a struggle for many to post without saying "you have no idea", "you're a liberal", "I'm not going to bother because what you've said is so stupid" etc. just because the view is different.

    You view going to warzones, risking life, on a poor wage spending extended amount of time away from comforts in the hope of peace as heroic. Don't be surprised that there will be other who view it as simply violent, primal, conforming or stupid. Regardless of how I personally view it (and no-one has successfully guessed how I view war or soldiers, other than that they are not automatic heroes).

    (Original post by CJRyan)
    No. They are risking their lives for their country, and fighting a war for their country.

    Yes, of course there are some bad seeds in the Army, like there are in any groups, but this doesn't mean the majority of good soldiers don't deserve to be called heroes.
    I think there needs to be a point where we stop kidding around and change the word 'country' to 'prime minister/president' or 'government'. It is no less factual, but it removes the connotation that it is all for one and one for all - a nation together going the same direction with the same views, and they are our messengers. It is, of course, not like that.

    (Original post by speedbird)
    You're absolutely right. The thing is though, people aren't very comfortable with the idea of thinking for themselves, that's why the media are there, so that you don't have to think but still can pretend you do.
    The irony of your one thumb down.

    Incidentally, my first post got about six thumbs up over a while, before the thumbs down came rolling in. Coincidence, or a suggestion that some people only decide for themselves when an outside source makes them bothered to do so?

    It is quite unfortunate that this topic is degrading into pro-war/pro-army hero posters simply writing insults and claiming the others are stupid, and not constructively posting. It damages your side of the argument, and those more mature who are on that side.

    EDIT

    (Original post by Firecrackerchild)
    oh noes. Not all military personel are like that. It's quite sad you think that.

    And I thought this was going to be a good thread, concerning the media and the hyperbole they spew out over a job. (After all you chose to go into the military and its an occupational hazard of getting shot at)
    Why do people keep shoehorning the word 'all' into my posts??? >_<
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    I think it's heroic that someone is willing to put their life on the line for their country, regardless of their background.
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    (Original post by infernalcradle)
    so....

    would you have no respect for me as I am going to be a doctor in the army.....

    I don't mind what your answer is....as long as its honest tbh....
    Doctor as in the person who would do surgery on the wounded in a base? Or as in a medic on the frontlines? The latter, I'm not sure, they carry guns today do they? The first one, I wouldn't mind.

    Genrally I don't like the british armed forces as a whole. Thats not to say I'm going to igrone you or be rude or something. That friend I was talking about has a civilain job in the army as well, but I still treat him the same as before. I was just brought up to be very anti....well everything that bares the union-jack in terms of politics and government forces. I'm just a product of my environment...don't hate me for it.
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    (Original post by Broderss)
    You are either extremely naive or just plain stupid.
    care to elaborate?
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    "War is an extension of politics."
 
 
 
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