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Why are people who go to war automatically declared heroes? watch

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    (Original post by nonotrly)


    Someone grows up obsessed with guns, doesn't feel s/he has the intellegence to get a degree or a job, or s/he becomes a chav, and is automatically directed toward the army as their career. Why does that person then suddenly become a hero?

    There are no chavs in the army. If you choose to use the label of 'chav' try not to use it in the same line as 'soldier'



    If George W Bush is evil, what does that make his soldiers? Heroes?

    Just because someones leader is evil will not automatically imply that all those who serve under them are evil as well.

    If, to give a less complicated example, Britain invaded Latvia quite abruptly, how are the soldiers there 'defending our freedom'?

    It would never happen


    If someone went to Afghanistan and was not called upon to do anything, why does that make him/her a hero of equal value to someone who got shot at?

    Service personnel on a tour of duty in Afghanistan don't go for a holiday. Sure there are a select few who may find them self's in harms way on a regular basis. However for them to be able to do this, they need people in logistics, administration etc etc to support them. This is how armed forces the world over have operated for a long time.


    What if one of those soldiers raped someone, before or after this? Who is the hero then?

    The two issues are different from one and other, don't try and connect what service personnel do with vile acts like the one you have mentioned.

    Why do we use the term 'hero' rather than the more accurate term 'pawn', or 'statistic'?

    Because we are talking about real human beings doing real things to help real people. You can talk statistics all you want, however the kind deeds of service personnel while on tour will always shine through.


    If I go to the zoo, jump into the lion enclosure, get attacked by a lion but kill it, why does that not make me a hero?

    That makes you a criminal

    Also I would like to point out, on remembrance day when we think back to all those to thought to preserve our freedoms, do we think of just the men on the beaches at Normandy or do you think of every single man and woman who contributed towards the war effort, whom are all hero's
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    A hero is a hero on 2 conditions:

    1. It has been proven that the majority of people (providing others are present) will remain passive during an emergency, waiting for someone else to act. For me, a hero is an exception to that rule - whether it be treated wounded soldiers in the middle of a battlefield, jumping on a grenade or simply consoling someone who seems in a bad condition.

    2. The hero shouldn't recognise themselves as one
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    (Original post by nonotrly)
    I was asking why you didn't respect doctors and scientists in the way that soldiers get big send-offs and it's a major thing when one dies. If you are of the opinion that soldiers are heroes, do you think scientists should have the same kind of affair? Or should the emphasis on soldiers be lessened?

    Some chavs get through though. If someone puts their mind to something, let alone a chav doing something physically aggressive with the prospect of firing guns, they'll do it, whoever they are. The body is the thing a chav uses best (by process of elimination versus the mind). But still, I wasn't saying all soldiers were chavs, just some, but a lot. Plus, I was also saying not everyone in the army is nice and a hero, some are nasty people who only know violence. May or may not come under the chav moniker.
    What do you mean 'big sendoffs', if you've ever been on a tour for 6 months away from your family, I think you'd want a big send off as well. The reason they get so much attention, if you like, is because they're away from their family, and go through all sorts of psychology torment as well as physical. These people signed up to fight for their country and that is what they are doing.

    You're also forgetting a lot of these soldiers are still teenagers, so while the rest of their age range is out partying, they're out in a desert fighting.

    Trust me, if these 'chavs' were as bad as you said they were, they wouldn't get through, as it has said previously, lack of motivation, criminal record, drug history, bad qualifications would all play a major part.

    Also, you're segmenting it a little too much. Many jobs in the Armed Forces require A-level equivalent and/or degrees. Also it is the minority that are chavs. I'm joining infantry and I am far from a chav.

    Another thing; do not provide hatred to the armed forces simply because of a minority. For example all the rape/killing of innocent civilian stories - trust me, the rest of the armed forces hate these so called 'soldiers' that did this, it's not just you.
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    OP, you claim to want a reasoned sensible discussion yet when ever anyone begins one, you shout them down with deliberately mis quoted passages and claim they're being childish.

    You claim complete ignorance on how your [many] posts could be misinterpreted to being highly insulting and derogatory to any and all serving members of the Armed Forces and when people call you on this, simply claim it is the respondant's fault.

    You have, time and time again, shied away from the topic, hiding behind a cloud of anonymity and ranting off about '"how everyone calls you a liberal" when you're the only one to have used that word in this thread.

    Since you're clearly not taking this thread seriously, nor the people attempting to discuss the finer points with you, I have no choice but to treat you like the 7yr old you're pretending to be, and sticking my fingers in my ears, screaming "lalalalalala" and ignoring the thread.

    Your loss. This could have been useful. But then you had to go act like a kid.




    EDIT: To those who've negged me, where are your contributions to the thread? Happy to be anonymous and have a sly pop at others, but when you're called out, JO FO SHO and HTrox, I wonder what'll happen now.
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    The so called 'heroes' are a menace when they are on leave. While fuelling the majority of violence and brutality in their respective garrison town centres, they still (somehow) retain their veneer of working class respectability. Towns like Wootton Bassett have a memorial almost every other day for the heroes, but essentially they are uneducated yobbos.
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    They're prepared to do what I'm not - e.g. kill and get killed to protect myself and my family if such situations arose. I think that is something heroic.
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    While I said I would not entertain you, I must say one thing in the middle of your latest convince-anyone-reading-that-nonotrly-said-something-else-and-hope-they-don't-check-the-previous-posts ploy:

    (Original post by Drewski)
    You have, time and time again, shied away from the topic, hiding behind a cloud of anonymity and ranting off about '"how everyone calls you a liberal" when you're the only one to have used that word in this thread.
    Might want to go some pages back and look again, Marvin. It's on the very first page for goodness sake. :facepalm2:

    Thought that could (another) reason for your negs. No need to get all whiney and kiddy, calling people out for giving you neg reps! OMG neg reps!

    One would think a topic such as this would make you aware of priorities in life...

    (Original post by Rzc)
    What do you mean 'big sendoffs', if you've ever been on a tour for 6 months away from your family, I think you'd want a big send off as well. The reason they get so much attention, if you like, is because they're away from their family, and go through all sorts of psychology torment as well as physical. These people signed up to fight for their country and that is what they are doing.
    My bad, I was referring to when they come back dead. There's the whole deal of a coffin parade through the streets, news stories, interviewing the family, but more how no-one working at NASA would get that, regardless of when and how they died, and all the technology and help they've given us.
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    (Original post by nonotrly)
    While I said I would not entertain you, I must say one thing in the middle of your latest convince-anyone-reading-that-nonotrly-said-something-else-and-hope-they-don't-check-the-previous-posts ploy:



    Might want to go some pages back and look again, Marvin. It's on the very first page for goodness sake. :facepalm2:

    Thought that could (another) reason for your negs. No need to get all whiney and kiddy, calling people out for giving you neg reps! OMG neg reps!

    One would think a topic such as this would make you aware of priorities in life...



    My bad, I was referring to when they come back dead. There's the whole deal of a coffin parade through the streets, news stories, interviewing the family, but more how no-one working at NASA would get that, regardless of when and how they died, and all the technology and help they've given us.
    They probably do, actually. Also, soldiers get the parade when they're KIA. If an astronaut died whilst in space for example, he'd get the same respect shown to him. Soldier's parades are based around their regiment - it's tradition.

    If you trained and fought for your life alongside 25 or so people, so much so you could call them your family, wouldn't you want to send them a final good-bye as well?
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    (Original post by Rzc)
    Agree to a certain extent as well, heroism must be earned. Though it takes a hell of a lot of courage to sign that contract.

    I really don't think it does. Lots of people join because a) they wan't to join and b) they have little else in the way of decent options.

    Neither of those are really courageous actions. No one I know in the armed forces would ever say that they joined for courageous or AN HERO reasons. They just did it because it's what they wanted to do. Learn skills, travel the world, make some kinda difference (and before anyone says 'omg that makes them heroes', well, just shut the **** up and think), excitement, 'comradeship' kinda crap, GET PAID, etc.


    If our country and the people I care about were threatened by war I'd sign up in a ****ing instant. That doesn't make me a hero.
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    (Original post by nonotrly)
    Forget the 'news' media telling you, tell me why YOU think this.

    Someone grows up obsessed with guns, doesn't feel s/he has the intellegence to get a degree or a job, or s/he becomes a chav, and is automatically directed toward the army as their career. Why does that person then suddenly become a hero?
    THe fact OP that you assume military personel (seeing as the army covers much more than just front line grunts) are unintelligent chavs shows how much of a moron you are.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    We were the aggressor in that war
    Germany invaded Poland (our allies). They were also comitting genocide on the jews and other minorities.
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    (Original post by nativeLondoner)
    The so called 'heroes' are a menace when they are on leave. While fuelling the majority of violence and brutality in their respective garrison town centres, they still (somehow) retain their veneer of working class respectability. Towns like Wootton Bassett have a memorial almost every other day for the heroes, but essentially they are uneducated yobbos.
    So a signals technician is an uneducated yobbo? So a surgeon is an uneducated yobbo? A nurse? Engineers? IT techs? I could go on and on and on. I met people in the infantry (which I assume is who you are referring to) who were far from being uneducated. I've met a para who was a graduate, and a chap who was a bank manager who was bored with his job.
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    (Original post by Darkphilosopher)
    Germany invaded Poland (our allies). They were also comitting genocide on the jews and other minorities.
    Yet we did nothing to defend Poland. And they weren't committing genocide in 39.
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    The title of this thread sums up my views completely. They're not heroes. I don't agree in wars full stop!
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    Yet we did nothing to defend Poland. And they weren't committing genocide in 39.
    It would have been very hard to try and defend Poland, Germany captured large parts of it very quickly.

    Seeing as we were an ally to Poland we had no option but to also declare war on Germany.
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    (Original post by concubine)
    I really don't think it does. Lots of people join because a) they wan't to join and b) they have little else in the way of decent options.

    Neither of those are really courageous actions. No one I know in the armed forces would ever say that they joined for courageous or AN HERO reasons. They just did it because it's what they wanted to do. Learn skills, travel the world, make some kinda difference (and before anyone says 'omg that makes them heroes', well, just shut the **** up and think), excitement, 'comradeship' kinda crap, GET PAID, etc.


    If our country and the people I care about were threatened by war I'd sign up in a ****ing instant. That doesn't make me a hero.
    I never said that made you a hero. But it stills take a lot of courage just to sign your life over to the military and go to basic. You can't deny it. You're about to make a huge decision
    • Thread Starter
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    (Original post by silverbolt)
    THe fact OP that you assume military personel (seeing as the army covers much more than just front line grunts) are unintelligent chavs shows how much of a moron you are.
    And you've actually shown how much of a moron you are by pretending I said all soldiers were unintelligent chavs, and then called me a moron for it. Facepalm.

    Now perhaps you can go and read the rest of the post and see they were just examples, rather than get overcome by the opportunity to 'own' and quickly post, counter-productively.
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    (Original post by nativeLondoner)
    The so called 'heroes' are a menace when they are on leave. While fuelling the majority of violence and brutality in their respective garrison town centres, they still (somehow) retain their veneer of working class respectability. Towns like Wootton Bassett have a memorial almost every other day for the heroes, but essentially they are uneducated yobbos.

    you know april fools day is over, you can stop talking crap now.
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    (Original post by Davethedavedave)
    you know april fools day is over, you can stop talking crap now.
    you clearly have never lived in a barracks town or a naval port
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    (Original post by Rzc)
    I never said that made you a hero. But it stills take a lot of courage just to sign your life over to the military and go to basic. You can't deny it. You're about to make a huge decision

    Yes I can, and I really don't think it does.
 
 
 
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