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Why are people who go to war automatically declared heroes? Watch

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    (Original post by concubine)
    Yes I can, and I really don't think it does.
    OK, how so?
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    (Original post by Rzc)
    OK, how so?
    Well, firstly it's entirely subjective, so this argument is pointless. But I just don't see it as being a hard decision to make. As I'm sure I pointed out earlier, most people that join the armed forces either WANT TO or see it as their only option for making cashmonies. Neither of these intensives really lead me to believe that it's all TUFF for them to sign up.

    In fact, I was talking to my mate who's in the marines last night and the only thing he found hard about joining was the physical tests. Something like half of the people he was grouped with failed and gave up in the end (several broken bones, 2 dudes got frostbite, etc.), it took him two tries to get in blablabla. None of them even thought much about the potential danger and that involved with being shipped off. They were trying to join because of the benefits of joining.


    So yeah. I really don't think it's a hard thing to do for most people. In a time of total war or something, sure, but despite our constant military engagements I really don't think you can compare Afghanistan/Iraq/Falklands etc. to that.


    I'm sure it's not true for everyone, especially those that were injured or killed, but my old nextdoor neighbour, my uncle and my aunt all went off to the Falklands/Gulf because it's what they wanted to do. They all had bad experiences whilst on tour but for the most part they were enriched by it and seem to feel like they made a difference for the better.



    /I'm hella intoxicated so my English here is probably appalling. Well, it's probably of the same kinda standard as the average poster here. WHATEVA'


    Also, I dunno if I mentioned, but my two real options (well, they're the two that I kinda limit myself to outa choice) post university are the armed forces or forestry. And I really don't feel that joining the armed forces will be all scary and ****. Maybe it's because so many of my friends and family are in it, or because as a person I just don't seem to feel fear so much as some others, but yeah.


    PS. you can have medals for being one of the few people I've disagreed with on here that I haven't ended up wanting to butcher with an axe.
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    It's a hard topic.. they do risk their lives, but then other professions save lives too, and they're not branded "heroes".

    I lost a good friend of mine in November, he was fighting in Afghanistan and sadly lost his life. He was a hero in my eyes, but I'm biased I suppose because I knew and loved him.
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    "Citizens can sleep peacefully at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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    (Original post by concubine)
    Well, firstly it's entirely subjective, so this argument is pointless. But I just don't see it as being a hard decision to make. As I'm sure I pointed out earlier, most people that join the armed forces either WANT TO or see it as their only option for making cashmonies. Neither of these intensives really lead me to believe that it's all TUFF for them to sign up.

    In fact, I was talking to my mate who's in the marines last night and the only thing he found hard about joining was the physical tests. Something like half of the people he was grouped with failed and gave up in the end (several broken bones, 2 dudes got frostbite, etc.), it took him two tries to get in blablabla. None of them even thought much about the potential danger and that involved with being shipped off. They were trying to join because of the benefits of joining.


    So yeah. I really don't think it's a hard thing to do for most people. In a time of total war or something, sure, but despite our constant military engagements I really don't think you can compare Afghanistan/Iraq/Falklands etc. to that.


    I'm sure it's not true for everyone, especially those that were injured or killed, but my old nextdoor neighbour, my uncle and my aunt all went off to the Falklands/Gulf because it's what they wanted to do. They all had bad experiences whilst on tour but for the most part they were enriched by it and seem to feel like they made a difference for the better.



    /I'm hella intoxicated so my English here is probably appalling. Well, it's probably of the same kinda standard as the average poster here. WHATEVA'


    Also, I dunno if I mentioned, but my two real options (well, they're the two that I kinda limit myself to outa choice) post university are the armed forces or forestry. And I really don't feel that joining the armed forces will be all scary and ****. Maybe it's because so many of my friends and family are in it, or because as a person I just don't seem to feel fear so much as some others, but yeah.


    PS. you can have medals for being one of the few people I've disagreed with on here that I haven't ended up wanting to butcher with an axe.
    Well it's true I guess. I'm joining up and not afraid but look forward to it, but then again that's like why you said - it's what I want to do. I guess I meant those with other motives of signing up will require a lot of courage to sign that paper - if they aren't doing it to defend their country or whatever then ya.

    And yay mainly because everyone is entitled to their opinion so I'm not gonna insult you for having one
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    Help our heroes = love your servitude

    I wonder how many politicians would vote for war if they knew it meant one of their kids being sent into the front line.

    It's time we realised that war is just rich men doing business using young men's lives as pawns in a political game of chess and telling them it's a noble sacrifice.
    You deserve more rep.
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    Most actions should be analysed in terms of "would the society benefit more from everyone doing it or nobody doing it?" Clearly, if nobody would become a soldier in any country, the world would be a better place than if everyone had a uniform and a gun. Both are ridiculous scenarios, but they still show that there's nothing beneficial on the whole in being a soldier. Sure, you're protecting your country, but the people you're shooting at are protecting theirs.
    So yes, while wars, as any situations with life-or-death scenarios, have potential for heroic actions, most soldiers aren't heroes, and shouldn't be seen as such.
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    None of my close family have served in the armed forces, I do not really know anyone who has. Nevertheless I find it highly unpatriotic, offensive and upsetting how little respect you have for our armed forces.

    Yes not all wars are just. But it is not a soldier's job to pick and choose which wars to fight. They should be respected regardless of the circumstances of the war.

    All soldiers are not good, all are not heroes. But they are doing a difficult job. They are putting their lives on the line for our country, for our freedom, our protection and that of others. They are doing this even though they are greeted with contempt from many of our own citizens, when they may not agree with the war, even when they don't want to fight.

    Just consider what we would be like without an army?

    I suggest you (OP) get off of your detached, middle class high horse, looking down at soldiers and realise that yes, they are not perfect, but they do an essential job for the good of the country. In my books anyone who does that is a Hero unless proven otherwise.
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    (Original post by trollman)
    Just consider what we would be like without an army?
    If nobody had an army, there'd be no wars. But then, you can't eradicate the existence of armies: there will always be people with similar views who will kill to make that view #1.

    Organised military may be another thing, though.

    I suggest you (OP) get off of your detached, middle class
    Stopped reading here. You made anything you said, however clichéd it was, irrelevant to me. Me, middle class? WOW. I sense an inferiority complex, and you've projected that into believing I'm middle class because the questions I have presented differ to your views.

    In my opening post at the very least, I had not declared my view on military personnel or even individual soldiers.

    In the entire thread, I have not disclosed how much I earn, my view on war or how far 'left' or 'right' I am, because it is irrelevant.

    :facepalm:
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    Makes the families feel good, plus it encourages more forlorn young men to sign up
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    You never hear anyone who has died in Afghanistan described as "a bit of a git really/not really liked/he kept to himself" either.

    Military dead always seem to be described in the press as "great person/everyone liked him/inspirational" etc. Its pretty unlucky that all the good eggs seem to get killed and the loner gits survive.
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    (Original post by James1977)
    You never hear anyone who has died in Afghanistan described as "a bit of a git really/not really liked/he kept to himself" either.

    Military dead always seem to be described in the press as "great person/everyone liked him/inspirational" etc. Its pretty unlucky that all the good eggs seem to get killed and the loner gits survive.
    It's spin as well as respect for the dead. One soldier died and his story was in the paper, he was described as obssessed with guns, having collections of toy guns as a kid and all those things you usually hear about the shooters in suyicidal shooting sprees, and that, oh of course, that naturally meant he joined the army (to shoot people and feel guns).

    In the article, there was no equivalent to a blink as this was written. Like it was normal.
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    (Original post by nonotrly)

    In what way are they fighting for this country? Are you saying that because you've had it said to you enough times?

    So you're saying it's not a soldier's fault s/he has to go out to another country and kill people if need be, because the government made them?
    I am not saying that the government has made them, but it is a job that someone has to do.

    And no, I am not saying they are fighting for this country because it's been said to be. In fact, it has never been said to me.

    Okay, so they may not be forced to do it, but the fact that they do is honourable. Often, they have been given credit for their job, but not when they are alive. They certainly deserve more credit than footballers and singers.
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    (Original post by Lauren Pen)
    I am not saying that the government has made them, but it is a job that someone has to do.

    And no, I am not saying they are fighting for this country because it's been said to be. In fact, it has never been said to me.

    Okay, so they may not be forced to do it, but the fact that they do is honourable. Often, they have been given credit for their job, but not when they are alive. They certainly deserve more credit than footballers and singers.
    This is all subjective. It's a job someone has to do, unless no-one's doing it.

    In reality, many soldiers kill. It is subjective, then, if killing deserves more credit than harming no-one.
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    (Original post by nonotrly)
    This is all subjective. It's a job someone has to do, unless no-one's doing it.

    In reality, many soldiers kill. It is subjective, then, if killing deserves more credit than harming no-one.
    Agreed. Fair point; good argument.
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    (Original post by Genocidal)
    I believe the concept of "hero" is thrown around too often in the media. I don't believe anyone who joins the army is a hero. It's just a job.
    Yeah, but at the same time, a plumber who stops someone's pipes exploding and their house being flooded, possibly killing everyone in the house isn't really a hero. He's just doing his job.
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    They are heroes for the elite; you just have to accept that they are heroes because you don't know and they do know. Who are you to question the knowers?
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    In 10 years the job title will be "super hero" and the army will be twice as big
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    (Original post by nonotrly)
    Forget the 'news' media telling you, tell me why YOU think this.

    Someone grows up obsessed with guns, doesn't feel s/he has the intellegence to get a degree or a job, or s/he becomes a chav, and is automatically directed toward the army as their career. Why does that person then suddenly become a hero?

    If that person is a wifebeater, a bully, why do you blindly say that person is a hero?

    If George W Bush is evil, what does that make his soldiers? Heroes?

    If, to give a less complicated example, Britain invaded Latvia quite abruptly, how are the soldiers there 'defending our freedom'?

    If someone went to Afghanistan and was not called upon to do anything, why does that make him/her a hero of equal value to someone who got shot at?

    Why does someone who got shot at have a heroicness of equal value to someone who ran back into a battlefield to save a wounded soldier?

    What if one of those soldiers raped someone, before or after this? Who is the hero then?

    Why do we use the term 'hero' rather than the more accurate term 'pawn', or 'statistic'?

    Why does one become less of a hero the further away from the battlefield and being shot at they are? Why do you become a hero if you're in the front line of a controversial war shooting people, but not for being the President/Prime Minister/whatever that arranged it?

    If I go to the zoo, jump into the lion enclosure, get attacked by a lion but kill it, why does that not make me a hero?

    If someone threatens me, do I become a hero if I fight their friends because my dad told me to?

    Just wonderin'. Being a hero doesn't seem that simple to me, but I await your theories.
    That's generalising everyone in the army. Not everyone in the army is like that. People who are in the army aren't necessarily wife beaters or bullies.

    But I agree with everything else you said.
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    (Original post by dorame)
    That's generalising everyone in the army. Not everyone in the army is like that. People who are in the army aren't necessarily wife beaters or bullies.
    I didn't generalise because I didn't say that I was describing everyone in the army, that would just be retarded.

    Starting to piss me off that people keep saying that, because all it is is the reader's brain processing it in a way that they think the word 'if' is a figment of our imaginations and 'everyone in the army' is in there somehow (perhaps only bats can read it) due to their own views or subconcious bias, not mine or simply in fact what I actually wrote.
 
 
 
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