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whats wrong with ex-polytechnics? watch

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    People have so much 'distrust' for them it seems on TSR as do many of the newspapers - and they're always shunning them. What is really wrong except that they're new and up-and-coming and haven't been round for hundreds of years....

    (note: I don't go to an ex-poly, I'm just very interested)
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    Simple concept.

    It's just TSR that cares. :dontknow:
    It's new and the ex-polys are still developing/growing/improving plus generally at the bottom of the leagu table so people (snobs) assume it's bad and decide look down on them. Many ex-polys are actually good.

    By the way, this kind of thread is made so many times already. Just sayin'.
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    (Original post by street.lovin')
    Simple concept.

    It's just TSR that cares. :dontknow:
    It's new and the ex-polys are still developing/growing/improving so people (snobs) look down on them.

    By the way, this thread is made so many times already. Just sayin'.
    Oh maaaaan, sorry! I've only kinda discovered this website for a couple of months so I am prob gonna annoy the TSR keyboard army that have seen this post 700000 times.

    Yeah i get what you mean, like the Sociology of the 1980s. Britain doesn't like change.
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    They just tend to be seen as not as good. They're generally easiser to get into as offers are lower, teaching standards are lower, graduate employment is lower etc. I'm not saying all ex-polys are bad, but look at a league table and it's just a general trend. You have to bear in mind, there are other new universities such as Warwick that are actually really good, so it's not necesarilly to do with the fact that they've not been round for a hundred years.

    Either way, it doesn't necessarily mean all ex-polys are bad, and attending an ex-poly makes you dumb, they can actually be pretty decent for more vocational courses. It's mostly just a case of academic snobbery (which is rife of TSR).
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    (Original post by sophiekatina)
    Oh maaaaan, sorry! I've only kinda discovered this website for a couple of months so I am prob gonna annoy the TSR keyboard army that have seen this post 700000 times.

    Yeah i get what you mean, like the Sociology of the 1980s. Britain doesn't like change.
    lol It's ok. but yeah this thread will attract a lot of people, maybe.
    I think it's just people being narrow minded. Many of expolys are regarded as good universities. They are just very new. Give it 50 or 100 more years, people might think London Met is prestigious... LOL ...that's only if they believe prestigious = age. I personally don't though.
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    a lot of people are snobby when it comes to universities. theres actually nothing wrong with a lot of ex-polys. obviously they're not academically strong or high on the league tables but that doesn't mean they're completely pointless.
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    People seem to enjoy pointing the finger at them.

    What has happened imo is that the overall expansion of HE (including the pre-92 unis) has taken place without a corresponding change in the distribution of ability, motivation and 'work ethic' of 18-19 year olds.
    Basically more unmotivated 'dossers' are ending up on degree courses these days and guess which institutions are taking up more than their fair share of them.

    the change of designation from poly to uni wasn't part of the problem, it wast the politically driven expansion of undergrad student numbers (which coincidentally started at about the same time)
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    (Original post by sophiekatina)
    haven't been round for hundreds of years..
    Have any universities in the UK, except Oxford, Cambridge, Glasgow, Aberdeen, St Andrews, Edinburgh and, I suppose, Dundee (sort of)?

    True, they didn't get university status in 1992, but many predate Warwick, York, Exeter, Hull, even some redbricks.

    (Original post by lukas1051)
    They just tend to be seen as not as good. They're generally easiser to get into as offers are lower, teaching standards are lower, graduate employment is lower etc. I'm not saying all ex-polys are bad, but look at a league table and it's just a general trend. You have to bear in mind, there are other new universities such as Warwick that are actually really good, so it's not necesarilly to do with the fact that they've not been round for a hundred years.
    Hmmm...quite controversial to suggest teaching standards are lower...

    Yes, Warwick is relatively new, but it saw a reasonable amount of snobbery in its early years. It was until about 25 - 30 years that it was thought of as "amazing".
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    (Original post by River85)

    Hmmm...quite controversial to suggest teaching standards are lower...
    Perhaps I'm wrong, I can't exactly say I've ever experienced it, but one would assume they are when looking at student satisfaction statistics. Of course, the ex-polys are a big group of universities, so some will inevitably be better than others.
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    I think a large amount of snobbery initially was because of the courses offered in the early days of polytechnics. This is a huge generalisation, but the polytechnics were, AFAIK, originally intended to offer vocational degrees. Before anyone splutters with indignation I'm referring to courses such as Engineering, which are useful and serve a purpose. The diversification of ex-polytechnics, in offering traditional courses with lower entry requirements has led many to perceive them as inferior.
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    (Original post by lukas1051)
    Perhaps I'm wrong, I can't exactly say I've ever experienced it, but one would assume they are when looking at student satisfaction statistics. Of course, the ex-polys are a big group of universities, so some will inevitably be better than others.
    Well, student satisfaction isn't necessarily the best indicator. Besides, I think just under half of the top 50 universities (when ranked by SS only) are post-1992s (with one of these not a former polytechnic). Those who are pre-1992 universities are still what some here would consider "not all that amazing" (Keele, Reading).

    By contrast redbricks like Leeds, Manchester and Bristol are lower. Manchester, LSE and Edinburgh are particularly low.
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    (Original post by lukas1051)
    Perhaps I'm wrong, I can't exactly say I've ever experienced it, but one would assume they are when looking at student satisfaction statistics. Of course, the ex-polys are a big group of universities, so some will inevitably be better than others.
    I don't have a lot of faith in student satisfaction surveys anyway tbh.

    here's a couple of hypotheses though.

    Middle class people are better at complaining to institutions and getting their problems resolved whereas working class people are more prone to putting up with it and getting resentful.

    I lot of students at post 92's don't really seem to know what they're there for. they did what they were told and the educational conveyor belt took them off to uni for 3 years, a higher proportion of students at the pre-92's have much more of a game plan which imo makes them feel a lot more engaged with their course and satisfied that everything's running according to timetable.


    yes I've been to one of each btw. I don't think teaching quality varied much in all honesty but the student mix is different.
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    (Original post by River85)
    Have any universities in the UK, except Oxford, Cambridge, Glasgow, Aberdeen, St Andrews, Edinburgh and, I suppose, Dundee (sort of)?
    Aston was founded in 1895 and a University since 1966, it's a weird one it's not an ex-poly but it is also not a russell group uni, however it is highly rated.
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    (Original post by canimakeit)
    Aston was founded in 1895 and a University since 1966, it's a weird one it's not an ex-poly but it is also not a russell group uni, however it is highly rated.
    Huh? Is that in reply to me saying no other universities are hundreds of years old? As that would make Aston just over 100 years old (45 years as a university) therefore not hundreds of years. Durham, UCL and KCL all achieved university status in the 1830s, and are the first after the Ancients I mentioned, but this was still less than 200 years ago. Therefore not hundreds.

    Durham isn't an ex-poly and not a Russel Group university. It's still highly rated. So too St Andrews. So too Bath. Exeter. Queen Mary. Aberdeen...not really strange.
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    (Original post by Joinedup)
    here's a couple of hypotheses though.

    Middle class people are better at complaining to institutions and getting their problems resolved whereas working class people are more prone to putting up with it and getting resentful
    Not sure I really buy that.

    Besides, who says that making a complaint necessarily resolves a problem? I've made a formal complaint to my university, as one member of staff really failed in her duties toward me (and potentially broke the law). Can't say I'm particularly delighted with the outcome. It was partially upheld too (would've been fully upheld, if the university got their way and I hadn't fought so hard).
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    (Original post by River85)
    Not sure I really buy that.

    Besides, who says that making a complaint necessarily resolves a problem? I've made a formal complaint to my university, as one member of staff really failed in her duties toward me (and potentially broke the law). Can't say I'm particularly delighted with the outcome.
    No one's had their grades from one module I was on which finished before xmas.

    approx everyone on that module is *****ing about it at and what a load of crap it means the uni is at great length to each other every single day but apparently only one person (guess who) is actually doing anything about it by raising it as a problem with the uni itself.
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    (Original post by Owly)
    I think a large amount of snobbery initially was because of the courses offered in the early days of polytechnics. This is a huge generalisation, but the polytechnics were, AFAIK, originally intended to offer vocational degrees. Before anyone splutters with indignation I'm referring to courses such as Engineering, which are useful and serve a purpose. The diversification of ex-polytechnics, in offering traditional courses with lower entry requirements has led many to perceive them as inferior.
    Although polytechnics were intended to offer vocational degrees, it never quite worked like that and they always had large numbers of people doing traditional academic subjects.

    Once upon a time Middlesex Poly (which has just closed its department) had the largest philosophy department in the country.

    Perhaps the other thing to bear in mind is that the traditional universities are much, much larger than they were when the Polys were Polys. Apart from Oxbridge and one or two others, Stirling comes to mind, most pre-1992 universities are enormous by the standards of 20 years ago.
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    (Original post by sophiekatina)
    People have so much 'distrust' for them it seems on TSR as do many of the newspapers - and they're always shunning them. What is really wrong except that they're new and up-and-coming and haven't been round for hundreds of years....

    (note: I don't go to an ex-poly, I'm just very interested)
    Well, if you compare ex-polys to traditional universities, everything.
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    I think employers rate ex-polytechnics less, perhaps because of snobbery or the way they were seen when they were at university. I don't think calling them all universities has changed that.
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    It's just different academic tastes. I wouldn't fancy going to one of the red bricks or really high Universities simply because I don't think I could handle the pressure. There is NOTHING wrong with them. Just different tastes and standards.
 
 
 
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