Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    kfc
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    :facepalm:

    Sorry but if the question really was whether eggs in general existed before chickens there would be NO POINT in asking the question. No philosophical thought experiment.

    If that was the actual question it was proved decades ago when they discovered dinosaurs laid eggs, it wouldn't even be worth ever asking the question if that was the case.

    Stupidity of people astounds me sometimes.
    The chicken and egg thought experiment was intended to point out the futility of identifying the first case of a circular cause and consequence. Therefore the only way to provide an answer to the question is by taking the question literally.

    Now I realise your not a fan of being contradicted, but regardless by trying to answer the question in non-literal terms your missing its whole point!
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Anne-marie)
    The chicken and egg thought experiment was intended to point out the futility of identifying the first case of a circular cause and consequence. Therefore the only way to provide an answer to the question is by taking the question literally.

    Now I realise your not a fan of being contradicted, but regardless by trying to answer the question in non-literal terms your missing its whole point!
    That is why considering the egg of ANY animal would have made the whole question pointless. I don't see how I'm being contradicted by making the SAME point.

    The way you're supposed to ask the question IS the literal one.

    They didn't mean if crocodiles eggs are proved to have existed millions of years before chickens even existed that answers the question, they are talking about the chicken's egg, not any egg.

    If they wanted to talk about the crocodile's egg they would have asked "which came first, the crocodile or the egg?".

    Sorry but I have an 8 year old sister who actually has the mental capacity to understand this point much better than you.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Name:  Chicken or egg.jpg
Views: 60
Size:  8.2 KB

    Egg.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by xEndeavors)
    The egg, because of evolution.
    Who put the egg there then, did it just suddenly appear.....?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Anne-marie)
    Amphibians like newts and frogs lay eggs too and evolved way before chickens, therefore eggs came first.
    Problem solved!
    you took the words out of my mouth!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    chicken?? the egg needs the chicken to protect it for weeks before it cracks !
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    I disagree with the egg coming first idea. How could the egg become into existence without the adapted creature to bear the already adapted egg? Reason says the chicken must have evolved first and then bear the egg. It wouldn't make sense in my opinion otherwise, nothing can evolve into an egg and I don't believe something as complicated as an egg could be produced from an less evolved creature.

    Also an egg needs to be cared for to survive, at least in the case of chickens.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by limetang)
    The egg.

    At one point during the evolution that lead up to a chicken there must have been a slightly less chicken like creatur giving birth to a slightly more chicken like creature.

    So I agree with you =P
    this is correct
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    The problem with this question is its simplicity. It was a gradual change due to evolution, there's not really a set point where you can define a chicken from the animal it evolved from. So neither came first. Life is complicated so it's silly to simplify it like this - stop asking this question because no one is ever satisfied with the answers given.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    I asked my geneticist flatmate about this a while ago, and he said the egg. I can't remember his reasoning though. Way to rock the appeal to authority...

    To take the smartarse tack, nobody ever said anything about it being a chicken egg. On the basis that dinosaurs were laying eggs before birds even evolved, I'm going to go with egg.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Maximum Velocity)
    Who put the egg there then, did it just suddenly appear.....?
    It's evolution. A small population of a species gets cut off from the rest of the population. Some characteristics will give it a selective advantage in the new environment, so with each generation these characteristics will be shown more and more. At some point, an animal that was a lot like a chicken (but not quite) laid an egg. And the thing that hatched was so genetically different to the original population (the one its family got cut off from) that it was a new species. Voila - first chicken.

    (Original post by CrazyDaisy123)
    I say chicken... evolved from another species whilst cut off from the original population. Therefore a restricted flow of alleles etc etc... im thinking founder effect or genetic bottleneck. Who knows? Ask AQA biology.

    WHY THE NEGS?
    That's why the neg (but it wasn't me). Because the chicken doesn't get zapped by radiation and evolve just like that; it has to be the offspring that's different. So that'd make it the egg.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by guidefox)
    But how could the egg have come first? There is no egg without the presence of a chicken! It's like askin whether a human or a baby came first.
    Lol, are you saying babies aren't human?
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    I asked my geneticist flatmate about this a while ago, and he said the egg. I can't remember his reasoning though. Way to rock the appeal to authority...

    To take the smartarse tack, nobody ever said anything about it being a chicken egg. On the basis that dinosaurs were laying eggs before birds even evolved, I'm going to go with egg.
    Then it's hard to distinguish the correct answer. The title does say 'the chicken or the egg'. I would settle on the idea the egg came first in some instances and the creature in others.

    There are good points for it being both... the whole point of evolution is genetics which indicates the egg would have to come first.. but it still raises the issue with me of when is a chicken, a chicken? In terms of evolution...
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RobertWhite)
    There are good points for it being both... the whole point of evolution is genetics which indicates the egg would have to come first.. but it still raises the issue with me of when is a chicken, a chicken? In terms of evolution...
    In terms of evolution, it's a new species when the new offspring is too genetically different to breed and produce fertile young with members of the original population. New species in this case is the chicken, obviously. So yeah. Gonna have to be egg.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    To take the smartarse tack, nobody ever said anything about it being a chicken egg. On the basis that dinosaurs were laying eggs before birds even evolved, I'm going to go with egg.
    Come on, that's changing the meaning of the question to suit your ends.
    Basically cheating.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RobertWhite)
    Then it's hard to distinguish the correct answer. The title does say 'the chicken or the egg'. I would settle on the idea the egg came first in some instances and the creature in others.

    There are good points for it being both... the whole point of evolution is genetics which indicates the egg would have to come first.. but it still raises the issue with me of when is a chicken, a chicken? In terms of evolution...
    I don't really understand. The point I was making was that it is an assumption we make that 'the egg' refers to a chicken egg. And if we subvert that assumption there ceases to be a problem. It's not a real solution, just me being a pedant.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    Come on, that's changing the meaning of the question to suit your ends.
    Basically cheating.
    You think?
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by limetang)
    The egg.

    At one point during the evolution that lead up to a chicken there must have been a slightly less chicken like creatur giving birth to a slightly more chicken like creature.

    So I agree with you =P
    (Original post by kopite493)
    this is correct
    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    I asked my geneticist flatmate about this a while ago, and he said the egg. I can't remember his reasoning though. Way to rock the appeal to authority...

    To take the smartarse tack, nobody ever said anything about it being a chicken egg. On the basis that dinosaurs were laying eggs before birds even evolved, I'm going to go with egg.
    This is all correct




    However, for the religious fundamentalists:

    (Original post by edd360)
    They both arrived on earth at the same time when god put them there
    This is not correct.

    Genesis 1:21

    "And God created...every winged fowl after his kind"

    It says nothing about God creating eggs.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    I don't really understand. The point I was making was that it is an assumption we make that 'the egg' refers to a chicken egg. And if we subvert that assumption there ceases to be a problem. It's not a real solution, just me being a pedant.
    I understand where you're coming from, perhaps we're being too pedantic but the other variables are fairly important when answering this question...
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
Updated: April 2, 2011

University open days

  1. University of Bradford
    University-wide Postgraduate
    Wed, 25 Jul '18
  2. University of Buckingham
    Psychology Taster Tutorial Undergraduate
    Wed, 25 Jul '18
  3. Bournemouth University
    Clearing Campus Visit Undergraduate
    Wed, 1 Aug '18
Poll
How are you feeling in the run-up to Results Day 2018?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.