Turn on thread page Beta

Which Party? watch

Announcements
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joe3469)
    I heard of them at the general election. They have great ideas but were probably seen as a wasted vote, as just to keep the tories out people would vote for Labour.
    True. Thought Dave Nellist made some good points on that the daily politics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg41HJLq27w

    it is interesting to see how labour came from nothing to becoming a big party - hope the same happens with tusc.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by badtothebone)
    that is a very fair point regarding the bankers.

    As for people becoming rich through their own hard work....some of the wealth is inheritance (no work) and the rest is earned from owning capital (money, means of production etc.). Essentially money makes money - the money does the work for you in a sense.

    So you have some money (M) and you buy means of production and labour power , say a clothes shop, stock and shop assistants, team leaders and a manager(C) and that is sold for money plus a profit (M+)

    M > C > M+

    thats the cycle you need to produce to make money. you don't need to do any work as such - just own things and watch the money come rolling in.

    that make sense or does it sound like a load of theoretical ****e.lol.
    To an extent yes but SOME of the rich have worked extreamly hard to get to a point in which they can buy a means of production. Why then should someone come along and say 'look you may have worked hard but we are gonna take loads of you money now'.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by badtothebone)
    True. Thought Dave Nellist made some good points on that the daily politics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg41HJLq27w

    it is interesting to see how labour came from nothing to becoming a big party - hope the same happens with tusc.
    Good interview and true.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joe3469)
    Go and up and you will see my suggested deficit reducing measures
    Its still very 'dream case scenario'
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by kevR94)
    To an extent yes but SOME of the rich have worked extreamly hard to get to a point in which they can buy a means of production. Why then should someone come along and say 'look you may have worked hard but we are gonna take loads of you money now'.
    realise i ignored your what kinda jobs question so have edited that post to answer it.

    yeah you are right. some people have worked and then bought means of production with their saved up wages. I don't think any of them are on the 100 richlist. could be wrong but i don't think i am. if they were then the choice is.....we can take say 2bn off of them and they will still be billionaires or we can cut say winter fuel allowance by a £100 and we'll have grannies shivering in their jumpers etc. or nurses losing thier jobs and not being able to pay the rent/mortgage etc.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by badtothebone)
    realise i ignored your what kinda jobs question so have edited that post to answer it.

    yeah you are right. some people have worked and then bought means of production with their saved up wages. I don't think any of them are on the 100 richlist. could be wrong but i don't think i am. if they were then the choice is.....we can take say 2bn off of them and they will still be billionaires or we can cut say winter fuel allowance by a £100 and we'll have grannies shivering in their jumpers etc. or nurses losing thier jobs and not being able to pay the rent/mortgage etc.
    Yes i can totally see your point but i still dont think there can be no cuts. There has to be some.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Teveth)
    The Labour Party is the ONLY morally just major political party. The Lib Dems have shown themselves to be nothing but a pack of cowardly liars, and the Tories, as everyone knows, are all about wealth preservation for the very rich using fake morality to con the middle and working classes into voting for them.

    Throughout modern British history, the betterment of society has always been brought about by Labour. The NHS, fair wages, equal rights, better working conditions...you name it - Labour.

    A vote for the Tories or Lib Dems is a statement of stupidity.
    Stupidity is exclusive to the tories and lib dems?

    Spoiler:
    Show




    And this muppet, who's middle name is 'Leslie', was the deputy PM.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by S129439)
    Stupidity is exclusive to the tories and lib dems?

    Spoiler:
    Show




    And this muppet, who's middle name is 'Leslie', was the deputy PM.
    Atleast he was working class
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joe3469)
    Atleast he was working class
    and that is better than being middle or upper class?

    no.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by S129439)
    and that is better than being middle or upper class?

    no.
    I guess the best PM we never had( Tony Benn) had a very upper class background. But class does matter.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joe3469)
    I guess the best PM we never had( Tony Benn) had a very upper class background. But class does matter.
    IMO, the best person for the job is the best person for the job, be they upper class from the whole silver spoon background where their mummy and daddy paid for their oxbridge education and polo ponies, or working class from a council estate in some back crack of london with nothing other than clothes on their back and a dream.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by S129439)
    IMO, the best person for the job is the best person for the job, be they upper class from the whole silver spoon background where their mummy and daddy paid for their oxbridge education and polo ponies, or working class from a council estate in some back crack of london with nothing other than clothes on their back and a dream.
    I guess
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by kevR94)
    Yes i can totally see your point but i still dont think there can be no cuts. There has to be some.
    I agree it sounds radical to say no cuts are needed when all major parties, the media etc. is saying there must be cuts but i would reall urge you to look at the figures. once you've scrutinized them enough you should then feel confident enough to stand by it. thats what i did - i didnt start off on a no cuts stance but when you look at it there really is no need!

    if the government are cutting 81bn over 4 years then you have to find 81bn over 4 years to be able to say 'we won't implement any cuts'.

    you can collect tax that we currently set but do not get - estimated to be 123bn a year by Richard Murphy, a well known chartered accountant http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/about/

    this along with creating the jobs (more people paying tax, less spent on welfare...i guess in a way thats a cut to welfare bill) can get us out of the crisis.

    Its also interesting to see that the debt was worse after WW2, in fact 3 times as worse and that was when we invested by setting up the NHS, building houses and nationalising 20% of the economy.....




    http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/do...ent%20Of%20GDP
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by badtothebone)
    I agree it sounds radical to say no cuts are needed when all major parties, the media etc. is saying there must be cuts but i would reall urge you to look at the figures. once you've scrutinized them enough you should then feel confident enough to stand by it. thats what i did - i didnt start off on a no cuts stance but when you look at it there really is no need!

    if the government are cutting 81bn over 4 years then you have to find 81bn over 4 years to be able to say 'we won't implement any cuts'.

    you can collect tax that we currently set but do not get - estimated to be 123bn a year by Richard Murphy, a well known chartered accountant http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/about/

    this along with creating the jobs (more people paying tax, less spent on welfare...i guess in a way thats a cut to welfare bill) can get us out of the crisis.

    Its also interesting to see that the debt was worse after WW2, in fact 3 times as worse and that was when we invested by setting up the NHS, building houses and nationalising 20% of the economy.....




    http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/do...ent%20Of%20GDP
    The problem is it sounds theoretically possible, but in practice would it work? I doubt it to be honest. Im no economist so im not able to blab on about the way to do it etc. but i just cant see a way out without cuts.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by kevR94)
    The problem is it sounds theoretically possible, but in practice would it work? I doubt it to be honest. Im no economist so im not able to blab on about the way to do it etc. but i just cant see a way out without cuts.
    where theres a will theres a way. As a matter of fact there are things i would cut...not for economics but just because i think they are unnessesary..........the war in afghanistan, trident, pfi schemes etc. by that i mean even if the war in afghanistan only cost 1 penny i still would not be there! cutting the say the afghan war would as a side effect help cut the deficit. so if you were worried about practicallities - you shouldnt be but this is an easier way of looking at it perhaps - you can cut these things and still be in line with the TUSC'S stance of no cuts in jobs and services providing the cuts to say workers on trident are found new jobs - thats why this job creation thing is so important a policy.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aj12)
    Labour lost creditability over the years I wanted a change. I liked some of the Conservatives policies on the EU human rights ect. I felt that under labour there had been an erosion of civil liberties.
    Do you mean when David Cameron insisted he would bring in a British Bill of Rights which, ironically, still isn't a piece of law.

    What about Kenneth Clarke who opposes people with knifes going to prison?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I'm not tied to one party directly but I do agree with some of the English Democrats proposals:

    Health:

    The improvement of the NHS - To make it 'An efficient organisation which provides a high quality service for all citizens.'


    Transport:

    'It is unfair that foreign vehicles should have free access to our road network. A toll should be introduced on all vehicles entering this country to ensure that they pay the full cost of the wear and tear on our road system which they cause.' - We have to when we go to France for example.


    Agriculture:

    'Support, where appropriate, would be provided for farmers who wish to switch away from factory farming to mixed farming and organic production.' - I'm not a fan of factory farming although I do understand it is to meet the high demands.

    Policing/Law:

    'English Democrats seek a return to a system of policing which recognises the principle that all citizens are treated equally. In their efforts to prevent crime and catch criminals the police should not be hindered and demoralised by unreasonable ideological constraints.' - Ashley Cole anyone?

    'The English Democrats respect the right of victims of crime to defend themselves and their property against criminals. The English Democrats would extend the right of self-help.' - Burglars need to be taught a lesson.

    'It is not acceptable that 100,000 hardened criminals commit over half of all crime in the U.K. Once a criminal is identified as beyond effective rehabilitation he or she must be kept out of the community until no longer a risk.' - With the Jamie Bulger case, Venables let out under a new alias and is then found with possession of child porn. He was clearly not 'fixed' and needs to be away form the public.

    'Addicts with children will be put on the 'at risk' register and custody of children will be dependent on an addict's ability to detoxify. Addicts failing to successfully complete detoxification will not have their children returned to them' - It's the children's fault why should they have a lower quality of life?

    Other:

    'The English Democrats reject the principle of a European currency'
    - I personally can't see the benefits of the Euro.

    'Our armed forces should enjoy the highest standards of training and equipment. Their primary role should be as a fighting force. The resources devoted to them should match the commitments they are expected to fulfil. The main purpose of our armed forces should be to protect our country and the interests of its people. ' - I think that's self explanatory?

    'The people of England should be able to celebrate St George’s day as a National Holiday. ' - It's celebrating our country.

    I may of missed a few but these are what I agree with.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bellissima)
    :lolwut: ...What was that?
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by hollywoodbudgie)
    :lolwut: ...What was that?
    haha it's great
 
 
 
Poll
Could you cope without Wifi?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.