Turn on thread page Beta

Is it realistic of me to consider career in law? watch

    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lionboy)
    okay apart from defining nothing about the higher rights course...par arguing with me over the extent and accessability the course grants you...you have not helped the OP concerning the issue of 'doing a GDL' .
    Also if you have graduated higher rights in 2003 it would mean you would have at least been 24/5 when you attained this ...add seven years and it would make you the lighter end of thirty...its 2 in the morning and im now questioning whether or not your a solicitor...im very sure the hours they work are around 12+ ....do you even work as a solicitor ???? im nearing to passing you off as a fail
    also quote oticing your location in sydney??? surely higher rights is for UK residences....so you should technically be in the UK ???? the purpose of you doing higher rights is void if you are in sydney
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    And to put a final nail in your coffin the higher rights have changed since 2010 and the course and assesments are completely different...so actually your course in 2003 and apparant lack of use through location of sydney would mean...wait...oh yeah ! your view doesnt mean anything
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lionboy)
    okay apart from defining nothing about the higher rights course...par arguing with me over the extent and accessability the course grants you...you have not helped the OP concerning the issue of 'doing a GDL' .
    Also if you have graduated higher rights in 2003 it would mean you would have at least been 24/5 when you attained this ...add seven years and it would make you the lighter end of thirty...its 2 in the morning and im now questioning whether or not your a solicitor...im very sure the hours they work are around 12+ ....do you even work as a solicitor ???? im nearing to passing you off as a fail
    My profile should help you understand my background. I wish I was at the lighter end of 30. It's more like the heavier end.

    You're absolutely right that I haven't used my E&W higher rights qualification in Australia: it's not applicable here. I'm not sure I understand how you say that disqualifies my opinion?

    Do feel free to doubt my assertion that I'm a solicitor: that is, of course, your perogative.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Busby_Babe)
    I'll keep it short and sweet. I'm a mature student (24) and will be studying at UCL for a non law degree. I know there are avenues one can take into the legal profession without an undergraduate law degree but I've read some posters on here state that obtaining a GDL can be a waste of time although admittedly I can't remember the context in which it was written.

    I'd really appreciate an honest and knowledgeable opinion on whether this is something I should consider pursuing.
    The GDL is the standard route into law for graduates from a non-law background. Generally, 50-60% of solicitors firms' intake have the GDL rather than a law degree. This includes Magic Circle firms. If you want to be a barrister, it's much the same. However, the bar is more keen on academic details than firms are, so a senior status law degree may be helpful. Not requisite though by any means. If you do want to do a law degree, many top law schools offer fast-track senior status law degrees which can be completed in two years. This incudes Oxford, Cambridge, Bristol, Nottingham, Queen Mary, Leeds etc.

    The only time the GDL would be a waste of time is if you decided afterwards that you didn't want to be a lawyer. A law degree will look good when applying for non-law jobs, whereas nobody who is unfamiliar with law will know what the GDL is.

    EDIT: Out of interest, what degree are you going to do at UCL?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    The GDL is the standard route into law for graduates from a non-law background. Generally, 50-60% of solicitors firms' intake have the GDL rather than a law degree. This includes Magic Circle firms. If you want to be a barrister, it's much the same. However, the bar is more keen on academic details than firms are, so a senior status law degree may be helpful. Not requisite though by any means. If you do want to do a law degree, many top law schools offer fast-track senior status law degrees which can be completed in two years. This incudes Oxford, Cambridge, Bristol, Nottingham, Queen Mary, Leeds etc.

    The only time the GDL would be a waste of time is if you decided afterwards that you didn't want to be a lawyer. A law degree will look good when applying for non-law jobs, whereas nobody who is unfamiliar with law will know what the GDL is.

    EDIT: Out of interest, what degree are you going to do at UCL?
    Thanks that's really good to know

    Bsc Archaeology.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Chalks is, has been and will hopefully continue to be, a valuable forum member on this little slice of TSR. You, lionboy, would be wise to listen to his experience. It has benefited many a student and prospective lawyer here. It doesn't bode well for a wannabe lawyer, however enthusiastic, to rush in rashly and make accusations of deceit. All that happens is that these people, who give up their time to help younger and/or more inexperienced members, decide they've had enough and leave. It has happened before, I'm sad to say. Therefore, out of respect for the rest of us, please think before you write.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Busby_Babe)



    I haven't thought about it that deeply although criminal law would be a dream.
    (Original post by chalks)

    Other posters such as Nulli Tertius can probably shed some light on the realities of criminal work - you need to be very aware of what it will mean in practice.
    I should perhaps that say that my experience is in the management of a firm that does criminal law as part of a mixed practice and not as a criminal advocate.

    Criminal law is poorly paid both at firm level and for the individual lawyer.

    In many parts of the country (including London) there are too many firms and the Legal Services Commission (who run legal aid) are wishing, so far with little success, to cull the number of firms down to single figures in any particular area. The future of criminal work is with the big providers in a county not with cottage industries. That is very important when looking for training contracts. Firms that will offer you a seat in crime but are very small players won't be doing crime by the time you qualify.

    There is no future for anyone in crime who isn't prepared to get out of bed to go to the police station at 3AM. City solicitors moan about their long and unsocial hours but there will be very few of them hauled from their beds like duty solicitors.

    Forget anything about fighting for justice. Criminal solicitors get their buzz from winning a game against the CPS and the police plus the camaraderie of the courts and the police station. The vast majority (90%+) of clients have done "it" whether or not that can be proved by the prosecution.

    There is also generally little law in criminal work and what there is, is taken from Stone's and Archbold.

    A great deal of resilience is required because criminal clients will always let you down. You may have succeeded in keeping someone out of gaol on the client's assurance of turning over a new leaf but you will still have to represent him (and find grounds for mitigation of sentence) next month, when he is caught red-handed committing another crime.

    Some solicitors end end specialising in white collar crime and some in regulatory prosecutions but most of these started out doing general knock-about crime
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I should perhaps that say that my experience is in the management of a firm that does criminal law as part of a mixed practice and not as a criminal advocate.

    Criminal law is poorly paid both at firm level and for the individual lawyer.

    In many parts of the country (including London) there are too many firms and the Legal Services Commission (who run legal aid) are wishing, so far with little success, to cull the number of firms down to single figures in any particular area. The future of criminal work is with the big providers in a county not with cottage industries. That is very important when looking for training contracts. Firms that will offer you a seat in crime but are very small players won't be doing crime by the time you qualify.

    There is no future for anyone in crime who isn't prepared to get out of bed to go to the police station at 3AM. City solicitors moan about their long and unsocial hours but there will be very few of them hauled from their beds like duty solicitors.

    Forget anything about fighting for justice. Criminal solicitors get their buzz from winning a game against the CPS and the police plus the camaraderie of the courts and the police station. The vast majority (90%+) of clients have done "it" whether or not that can be proved by the prosecution.

    There is also generally little law in criminal work and what there is, is taken from Stone's and Archbold.

    A great deal of resilience is required because criminal clients will always let you down. You may have succeeded in keeping someone out of gaol on the client's assurance of turning over a new leaf but you will still have to represent him (and find grounds for mitigation of sentence) next month, when he is caught red-handed committing another crime.

    Some solicitors end end specialising in white collar crime and some in regulatory prosecutions but most of these started out doing general knock-about crime
    Sounds frustrating and actually not very rewarding considering the person you're defending is guilty most of the time. What about the CPS is it more/less difficult to get into?
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I should perhaps that say that my experience is in the management of a firm that does criminal law as part of a mixed practice and not as a criminal advocate.

    Criminal law is poorly paid both at firm level and for the individual lawyer.

    In many parts of the country (including London) there are too many firms and the Legal Services Commission (who run legal aid) are wishing, so far with little success, to cull the number of firms down to single figures in any particular area. The future of criminal work is with the big providers in a county not with cottage industries. That is very important when looking for training contracts. Firms that will offer you a seat in crime but are very small players won't be doing crime by the time you qualify.

    There is no future for anyone in crime who isn't prepared to get out of bed to go to the police station at 3AM. City solicitors moan about their long and unsocial hours but there will be very few of them hauled from their beds like duty solicitors.

    Forget anything about fighting for justice. Criminal solicitors get their buzz from winning a game against the CPS and the police plus the camaraderie of the courts and the police station. The vast majority (90%+) of clients have done "it" whether or not that can be proved by the prosecution.

    There is also generally little law in criminal work and what there is, is taken from Stone's and Archbold.

    A great deal of resilience is required because criminal clients will always let you down. You may have succeeded in keeping someone out of gaol on the client's assurance of turning over a new leaf but you will still have to represent him (and find grounds for mitigation of sentence) next month, when he is caught red-handed committing another crime.

    Some solicitors end end specialising in white collar crime and some in regulatory prosecutions but most of these started out doing general knock-about crime
    This sounds nothing like the criminal bar portrayed in Silk. I feel betrayed by the BBC.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I've heard lately law firms are only taking on gays at the moment so they can reach their equal opportunity targets

    DON'T SHOT THE MESSENGER THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD FROM SOMEONE WITHIN THE INDUSTRY.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Busby_Babe)
    Sounds frustrating and actually not very rewarding considering the person you're defending is guilty most of the time. What about the CPS is it more/less difficult to get into?
    I have quoted this comment, but have some general comments regarding earlier ones to.

    For this particular point, the CPS are not recruiting legal trainees at the moment - and have not done so for the last few years (budget constraints blah blah). However, I am one of the many aspiring criminal barristers, and the reward is appearing in court - therenis no other area of law that involves true advocacy work on a daily basis.

    Generally (and I am speaking as someone with a 2:1 in law, an LLM distinction and relevant practical experience), it seems to me that getting pupillage involves a huge amount of luck (beyond the inevitably high number of Oxbridge and first class graduates). If it is what you want to do, go for it, but if you are not certain then you will not succeed - there are many obstacles, moments of disappointment and disillusionment and far too many seasoned barristers to see through any bull**** answers in applications and interviews.

    There is nothing wrong with doing the GDL - some firms/sets apparently have a slight preference towards those coming from that route due to more broad knowledge base. And, as you acknowledge, your access course was a means to an end. It will easily be explained in any application, and no one will hold that against you - particularly with the reasons you proferred for not doing A levels.

    If you want to do it, go for it - and good luck
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Busby_Babe)
    I'll keep it short and sweet. I'm a mature student (24) and will be studying at UCL for a non law degree. I know there are avenues one can take into the legal profession without an undergraduate law degree but I've read some posters on here state that obtaining a GDL can be a waste of time although admittedly I can't remember the context in which it was written.

    I'd really appreciate an honest and knowledgeable opinion on whether this is something I should consider pursuing.
    About half of lawyers did a non-law degree. Get a 2:1 from UCL and do the GDL, then you will have a pretty good shot at being a lawyer in decent firms (or just getting a pupillage if barrister). This is providing everything else is in order. I would recommend ec's and at least ABB at A-Level
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ppp)
    I've heard lately law firms are only taking on gays at the moment so they can reach their equal opportunity targets.
    Can I just check, you agree that sounds absolutely ridiculous too, regardless of where you heard it?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Law is a bogus career made up of verbal masturbation.

    most lawyers have zero science or quantitative knowledge and they know it.

    bums.

    X^1 = ?

    X^0 = ?

    and proof it too, lawyers bums only ! ha
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Txi)
    Law is a bogus career made up of verbal masturbation.

    most lawyers have zero science or quantitative knowledge and they know it.

    bums.

    X^1 = ?

    X^0 = ?

    and proof it too, lawyers bums only ! ha
    Not only is that irrelevant to the thread, you don't seem to be making any point whatsoever. Or sense, for that matter.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ForKicks)
    About half of lawyers did a non-law degree. Get a 2:1 from UCL and do the GDL, then you will have a pretty good shot at being a lawyer in decent firms (or just getting a pupillage if barrister). This is providing everything else is in order. I would recommend ec's and at least ABB at A-Level
    A 2:i and the GDL does not provide you with a pretty good shot at a pupillage. It's a better shot than some, and is good enough--but the odds are still about 1/4 with that kind of background.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    Not only is that irrelevant to the thread, you don't seem to be making any point whatsoever. Or sense, for that matter.
    not irrelevant.

    thread = career in law.

    my case is that it is overrated and so are the so called contributions that lawyers make in society.

    too many lawyers around.

    so as for the problem I know you've been waiting for the answer so here it is !


    X^1 = ......... X

    proof = anything replicated by itself 1 time is itself.

    Thus 2^1 = 2


    X^0= this is the weird bit ......... 1

    proof = 1 = X^1 / X^1

    = X^1-1 = X^0
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Txi)
    not irrelevant.

    thread = career in law.

    my case is that it is overrated and so are the so called contributions that lawyers make in society.

    too many lawyers around.

    so as for the problem I know you've been waiting for the answer so here it is !


    X^1 = ......... X

    proof = anything replicated by itself 1 time is itself.

    Thus 2^1 = 2


    X^0= this is the weird bit ......... 1

    proof = 1 = X^1 / X^1

    = X^1-1 = X^0
    I'm familiar with indices, but thanks for the proofs. Here's another one:

    The thread is specifically about the OP's chances in a career in law. Your initial post pertained to the very nature of the legal profession. Your opinion about the nature of the legal profession has no bearing on the OP's chances of a career in said profession. Hence, the content of your initial post is irrelevant to the thread.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jjarvis)
    A 2:i and the GDL does not provide you with a pretty good shot at a pupillage. It's a better shot than some, and is good enough--but the odds are still about 1/4 with that kind of background.
    Yeahh, I should have been more specific! Meant good in terms of the averages, not in actual terms
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    basic is more than most dumb lawyers have dude
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: April 4, 2011
Poll
A-level students - how do you feel about your results?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.