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    Why is everyone blaming lib dems for the tuition fees rise. It was proposed by both the Tories as well. People say Nick Clegg lied but the truth of the matter is, he didn't. He said if they won the general election, he would abolish tuition fees but they didn't win. They won less than 10% of the seats so it was fairly obvious most his policies wouldn't be implemented.

    Truth is, people need to think for themselves rather than just absorbing what the media gives. Tories could have formed a minority government if they wanted. They would have raised tuition fees and still increased VAT to 20%. What's more interesting is that the 20% VAT is affecting a lot more people but tuition fees are being emphasised. It's pretty obvious the lib dems are the scapegoats.

    In a way I hope that the conservatives had formed a minority government so you all knew how lucky we are to have the lib dems. Anyone who thinks the minimum tax would have been increased from £6,000 to £10,000 without the lib dems is insane.

    Whats even more laughable is that the people moaning about lib dems going back on their word didnt even vote for them. If you liked their policies so much then mabey you could have voted for them so they could form their own government.

    Kudos to Nick Clegg, brilliant election campaign, brilliant policies and a breath of fresh air. He secures a measley 57 seats despite this and still he is getting SOME of his policies through to government.

    Labour secured nearly 5 times more seats than the lib dems but they have had zero input in the last year. Hopefully you will all begin to appreciate the lib dems when your first 10k doesnt get taxed instead of the normal 6k

    If you disagree with my post, dont just write childish comments below, quote all of what I say and debate it.
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    Maybe my post is a bit too supportive of the lib dems, but, in a nutshell, I still think that they would do a much better job than conservatives and labour. If any other party with 50 odd seats formed alliance with another party with completely different policies, no doubt the small party would have to break promises and compromises. I just hope people either boycott the next vote or realise, the lib dems arent perfect but 1million times better than the opponents.
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    (Original post by nasira372)
    He said if they won the general election, he would abolish tuition fees but they didn't win.
    No he didn't. He (and the other lib dems) said that they would "vote against tuition fee increases in the next parliament". You can't get any more clearer than that.
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    He pledged to vote no, he voted yes, he lied. He was the one calling for a new style of politics, where politicians where honest and everything was transparent. Signing a pledge to get votes, then blaming his U-turn on the defecit is dishonest.
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    (Original post by nasira372)
    /






    Doesn't say 'Only if we win', does it?
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    No he didn't. He (and the other lib dems) said that they would "vote against tuition fee increases in the next parliament". You can't get any more clearer than that.
    That was considering 2 possibilities:

    1) Lib dems win
    2) Lib dems lose

    In either case they would have 'voted against tuition fees in the next paliament'. No party expected to be in a coalition with another. Common sense though that if it is a coalition, compromises have to be made.

    Of course you wouldn't understand though. Lib dems are definately the bad party for having to compromise. I'd rather have D Cameron who is poking his nose in Libya whilst 200k people are protesting in his own country. Then again, we always Labour who caused 2 wars in under 2 decades.
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    (Original post by nasira372)
    That was considering 2 possibilities:

    1) Lib dems win
    2) Lib dems lose

    In either case they would have 'voted against tuition fees in the next paliament'. No party expected to be in a coalition with another. Common sense though that if it is a coalition, compromises have to be made.

    Of course you wouldn't understand though. Lib dems are definately the bad party for having to compromise. I'd rather have D Cameron who is poking his nose in Libya whilst 200k people are protesting in his own country. Then again, we always Labour who caused 2 wars in under 2 decades.
    Stop putting words in my mouth.
    I didn't say any of that.

    You said that the lib dems said that they would scrap fees if they won the election. They didn't say that. They said they would vote against any increase, full stop.

    I understand that compromises have to be made, but atm it looks like its not compromise, but more like just chucking away all their beliefs / policies. If you have to compromise, you don't do it on one of your main policies, that you signed a bloody pledge about beforehand.
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    I'm not going to repeat this again. ALL PARTIES WERE FIGHTING THE ELECTION UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT THEY WERE GOING TO BE IN A MINORITY GOVERNMENT, OR BE IN OPPOSITION. HUNG PARLIAMENT WAS NEVER ONE OF THE OPTIONS.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    Stop putting words in my mouth.
    I didn't say any of that.

    You said that the lib dems said that they would scrap fees if they won the election. They didn't say that. They said they would vote against any increase, full stop.

    I understand that compromises have to be made, but atm it looks like its not compromise, but more like just chucking away all their beliefs / policies. If you have to compromise, you don't do it on one of your main policies, that you signed a bloody pledge about beforehand.
    So they should have voted NO and let the tories run a minority government.

    And yes, the lib dem policy is to abolish tuition fees not just vote against it. If you dont believe me I can find you video footage proving it. If lib dems won the election outright, they would have abolished them, not voted against.
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    Arguably you could say he produced a "Fairer Alternative". Now of course we know thats not the case, but from his point of view he could argue that.
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    (Original post by Craig_D)





    Doesn't say 'Only if we win', does it?
    What did you expect them to say. If we only get 47 seats we will compromise with the tories. They obviously weren't going to bring up hung parliament as it would have made the party look weak.
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    (Original post by nasira372)
    So they should have voted NO and let the tories run a minority government.

    And yes, the lib dem policy is to abolish tuition fees not just vote against it. If you dont believe me I can find you video footage proving it. If lib dems won the election outright, they would have abolished them, not voted against.
    Yes they should have. Or at least made a larger push to include it as part of the coalition agreement. They managed to do it with AV (I know they wanted PR, but AV is a step towards it, rather than away from it).

    And correct. It is lib dem policy to scrap them. But the promise they made was totally seperate to their policy. And that promise was to vote against any increase.
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    Look, the fact of the matter is that libdems should not have signed the pledge. They had no means of delivering it, fees would have went up even in a lib-lab coalition.

    I still support the libdems because i always thought that scrapping fees was a ridiculous policy, so I'm rather glad they abandoned it.
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    (Original post by nasira372)
    Why is everyone blaming lib dems for the tuition fees rise. It was proposed by both the Tories as well. People say Nick Clegg lied but the truth of the matter is, he didn't. He said if they won the general election, he would abolish tuition fees but they didn't win. They won less than 10% of the seats so it was fairly obvious most his policies wouldn't be implemented.

    Truth is, people need to think for themselves rather than just absorbing what the media gives. Tories could have formed a minority government if they wanted. They would have raised tuition fees and still increased VAT to 20%. What's more interesting is that the 20% VAT is affecting a lot more people but tuition fees are being emphasised. It's pretty obvious the lib dems are the scapegoats.

    In a way I hope that the conservatives had formed a minority government so you all knew how lucky we are to have the lib dems. Anyone who thinks the minimum tax would have been increased from £6,000 to £10,000 without the lib dems is insane.

    Whats even more laughable is that the people moaning about lib dems going back on their word didnt even vote for them. If you liked their policies so much then mabey you could have voted for them so they could form their own government.

    Kudos to Nick Clegg, brilliant election campaign, brilliant policies and a breath of fresh air. He secures a measley 57 seats despite this and still he is getting SOME of his policies through to government.

    Labour secured nearly 5 times more seats than the lib dems but they have had zero input in the last year. Hopefully you will all begin to appreciate the lib dems when your first 10k doesnt get taxed instead of the normal 6k

    If you disagree with my post, dont just write childish comments below, quote all of what I say and debate it.
    I'm not too familiar with the exact technicalities of the politic system, but wouldn't the Lib dems have more of a say over which policies would be implemented if they allowed a conservative minority?

    Because every vote on a bill would depend on their support, right? otherwise the Conservatives would have to declare another general election.

    Also on your criticism of Labour's proportion of seats and their lack of input compared to the Lib dems. I can't see how you can blame Labour on this, rather it is the fault of the political system in this country which has delivered such a distorted distribution of power - handing the Lib dems who have less seats and smaller proportion of votes with more power than Labour who have overwhelmingly more public support.
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    (Original post by nasira372)
    What did you expect them to say. If we only get 47 seats we will compromise with the tories. They obviously weren't going to bring up hung parliament as it would have made the party look weak.
    Well if they knew that in a certain situation (a hung parliament) they wouldn't be able to keep their promise, then they should not have made the promise.
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    (Original post by ikoghoo)
    He pledged to vote no, he voted yes, he lied. He was the one calling for a new style of politics, where politicians where honest and everything was transparent. Signing a pledge to get votes, then blaming his U-turn on the defecit is dishonest.
    What he should have done is stayed quiet on the issue. Like cameron and the VAT rise. That would have made him more transparent RIGHT?
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    (Original post by nasira372)
    What did you expect them to say. If we only get 47 seats we will compromise with the tories. They obviously weren't going to bring up hung parliament as it would have made the party look weak.
    "I pledge to vote against any increase in fees in the next parliament."

    It's a bold statement, which doesn't give any leeway at all (and it was specifically worded to be such a guarantee). He's directly promising to vote against any fee increase (which implies under any circumstances). He's done the exact opposite; to go against that pledge shows he was lying. I don't expect him to say anything, I expect him to stick by the promises he made, this was a promise.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    Well if they knew that in a certain situation (a hung parliament) they wouldn't be able to keep their promise, then they should not have made the promise.
    Nick Clegg wanted to drop the policy, but his party would not let him. If only they had listened.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    Well if they knew that in a certain situation (a hung parliament) they wouldn't be able to keep their promise, then they should not have made the promise.
    Ok perhaps a mistake not considering a hung parliament. But still, overall, im surprised lib dems have lost all credibility but Labour and Tories are still winning 90% of the seats. TBH lib dems are FAR FROM PERFECT and I admit this as a huge lib dem campaigner. Then I consider UKIP who only have Europe on their agenda which makes me realise the Lib Dems are still the best party for the job
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    (Original post by spidergareth)
    Nick Clegg wanted to drop the policy, but his party would not let him. If only they had listened.
    Then he shouldn't have signed the pledge himself.
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    (Original post by nasira372)
    Ok perhaps a mistake not considering a hung parliament. But still, overall, im surprised lib dems have lost all credibility but Labour and Tories are still winning 90% of the seats. TBH lib dems are FAR FROM PERFECT and I admit this as a huge lib dem campaigner. Then I consider UKIP who only have Europe on their agenda which makes me realise the Lib Dems are still the best party for the job
    But its not just tuition fees though.
    What happened to Clegg hugely disagreeing with the cuts the Tories were planning?
    I know its sounds slightly exagerated, but I wouldn't be surprised if he defects to the Tories in the next election.
 
 
 
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