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Why don't the government just refuse to pay it back watch

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    (Original post by Jacktri)
    if we can't borrow it we will steal it we just have to invade Nigeria or something and get their bank to lend us trillions
    Right because our Armed Forces stretched in Afghanistan and underfunded are going to be able to invade one of the most populous countries on Earth, Nigeria, while at the same time defending the UK from the resulting backlash from the Global Community?
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    (Original post by Jacktri)
    Well why waste time paying back debts and making cuts when you can just refuse to pay it back my solution is flawless and anyone who disagrees will be nuked because the UK owns nukes and we aren't afraid to use them.
    Argentina defaulted in 2002 i think. all that seemed to happen was the debts were renegotiated and some private companies left. sounds pretty good actually.

    would defo rather some faceless bond holders lost some profits then people being put on the streets, and nurses losing their jobs!
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    (Original post by ppp)
    it works the same as a credit card. If we refused to pay back the money we owe our credit rating would drop to its bare minimum and our banks would collapse as no one would trust us and would probably refuse to trade with the UK.

    This is the reason Greece's economy completely collapsed.
    And that's putting it lightly. Not paying it back, would put us into forced bankruptcy. Our strong currency would be ****ed. Meaning all those imports we curently buy (pretty much everything you own), we wont be able to buy any of them. No one would be will to trade with us anyway. Meaning all those essential resources we buy from abroad would be gone. No one would buy off of us, forcing industry to close and ****ing up the economy even more. All those foreign investors will take their buisness else where. All the british investors in other countries would be ****ed. Basically we'd be a ****ing joke. Then you have to take into account there may be some retaliation from countries i.e china. A lot of the money we borrow comes from china. All those chinese renminbi (yaun) we use to buy chinese products with, we ask china to lend it back to us and we agree to pay it back with interest. If we just said no we are not paying it back, i doubt they'd be too pleased. And I can't see america or the eu backing us up in a situation like this.
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    No-one has the balls to commit marketcide. I'd love to, frankly, but our political class haven't the balls to.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Right because our Armed Forces stretched in Afghanistan and underfunded are going to be able to invade one of the most populous countries on Earth, Nigeria, while at the same time defending the UK from the resulting backlash from the Global Community?
    Go to Google, search 'define: irony'. Read results and absorb. Return and assess the above. Please.
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    Its because if we dont pay it back to the countries we owe it to those countries will want to have a say in our politics. For example if we dont give the russians their money back they'll say *well ok but we want to have a say on what ur armed forces do and ur politics*
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    Structured default is the way to go for countries such as Greece and Ireland. It's what most economists recommend and most politicians, although not all, avoid.

    http://www.roubini.com/euro-monitor/260652

    A particularly interesting observation on the ramifications of not accepting a ‘structured default’ offer follows here:

    The Junior Minister for European Affairs has said Ireland holds the bargaining card in the negotiations over the interest rate on the EU/IMF bailout package.
    Lucinda Creighton said it’s not in the interest of other European countries for Ireland not to be able to repay this loan.
    She said this fact will give Ireland more bargaining power in these negotiations: “The very worst case scenario would be for some sort of sovereign default in Ireland which would have a ripple effect across the EU,” Ms Creighton said.
    “It would have devastating consequences for the euro, I think that our partners around the EU table know that.”
    We have to remember that it is the banks themselves who got into this mess...and they need to stop relying on tax-payers to get them out of it.
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    We're legally bound to pay it back and it's important to stay on good terms with other countries... for a whole number of reasons (not nukes).
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    (Original post by RobertWhite)
    We're legally bound to pay it back and it's important to stay on good terms with other countries... for a whole number of reasons (not nukes).
    We need to consider the bigger picture though if we're to look at alternatives to a total repayment of debt. We have done so in the case of third-world countries by wiping out the debt.

    A partial repayment could be worked out since the tax-payers of the countries that have provided the loans will still benefit in the long-term by reduction of taxes.
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    Another :troll: without any idea about world politics, british politics, or the world scene.
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    (Original post by siwelmail)
    Another :troll: without any idea about world politics, british politics, or the world scene.
    To whom are you referring...yourself maybe? And have you made any constructive contribution to this thread apart from this disparaging aside?
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    (Original post by badtothebone)
    Argentina defaulted in 2002 i think. all that seemed to happen was the debts were renegotiated and some private companies left. sounds pretty good actually.

    would defo rather some faceless bond holders lost some profits then people being put on the streets, and nurses losing their jobs!
    Chances are that many people you know are 'faceless bond holders', mostly through their pension funds. If you don't mind that your grandma will probably starve to death (if she doesn't die of hypothermia first), then feel free to default away
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    (Original post by Jacktri)
    or maybe you lack the mental capacity to understand its simplistic brilliance hence you play the troll card
    Nice try, but sorry. Your idea isn't as brilliant as you think.

    The UK economy, infact the global economy, runs on debt. Imagine if no one could use a credit card and pay next month, or take out a mortgage or a loan to buy a car.

    Life as we know it would not be possible. Borrowing and lending is necessary for a government to do anything, and it's been like that for hundreds of years.

    If we didn't pay it back it would destroy the governments ability to borrow any money in the future, even if they really needed it. The pound would plummet and using credit would be impossible. Investment would dry up, stock market would collapse. People would protest. Massive unemployment and poverty. Basically what you are suggesting would:

    1. Destroy the economy
    2. Send Britain back to the stone age
    3. Probably start a bloody international and civil war at the same time
    4. Lots of people would die, probably including you
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    (Original post by thegaffer91)
    Chances are that many people you know are 'faceless bond holders', mostly through their pension funds. If you don't mind that your grandma will probably starve to death (if she doesn't die of hypothermia first), then feel free to default away
    nationalise the big companies, tax the rich and plan your economy and pensions will be secure. there 4.5 trn wealth with the top 10% people. theres no need way you will loose out on your pension with that money around.
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    (Original post by thegaffer91)
    Chances are that many people you know are 'faceless bond holders', mostly through their pension funds. If you don't mind that your grandma will probably starve to death (if she doesn't die of hypothermia first), then feel free to default away
    Scare tactics as well as trying to induce feelings of guilt are oft exercised props utilised by banks to back off from anything likely to impinge on their profit gathering.
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    humanity has reached new lows
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    (Original post by 0906079)
    Because no one would trust us again and if we threaten them they'd probably join forces with other countries we owe money/have pissed off and together they'd gang rape us.
    This!
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    (Original post by Jacktri)
    Well why waste time paying back debts and making cuts when you can just refuse to pay it back my solution is flawless and anyone who disagrees will be nuked because the UK owns nukes and we aren't afraid to use them.
    Because counties work on borrowing money and if we could not borrow money our economy would collapse and we would all starve.
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    (Original post by Jacktri)
    Well why waste time paying back debts and making cuts when you can just refuse to pay it back my solution is flawless and anyone who disagrees will be nuked because the UK owns nukes and we aren't afraid to use them.
    The debt is never "paid back". The important thing is that we could reasonably pay the debt back if we wanted to; then it goes on the Rothschilds' or whoever's cash flow sheet as a good debt. Allowing their creditors to assess them as also having lots of money, and allowing them to invest in more stuff and create growth.

    In fact creditors have an interest - no pun intended - in making it so we don't pay off the debt and endlessly serve the interest till kingdom come.

    Because all the real money in the world is created by trading on risk, we have to strike a balance between appearing financially secure but yet just hard up enough that we can never pay it off.

    The national debt has very little to do with the coins in your pocket. None of it really exists in any meaningful sense other than to define itself.
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    The vast majority of UK debt is owed domestically.

    The nationalised banks are UK government assets, which will bring money to the UK government when they are sold off, so all of the money for bank nationalisation is money the government owes itself.

    A lot of UK government bonds are held by pension funds, hedge funds, banks etc, basically it's a good solid form of investment because government bonds are seen as a safe form of investment, even though they pay lower rates of interest. One reason why the Germans are so tetchy about Ireland going bust is because their banks chose to hold large portfolios of government bonds from different countries especially a lot from Ireland, rather than buying up all the junk bonds that the rest of the worlds banks were trading in. So they escaped when the house started to fall down in 2008 but now they are sweating on Ireland defaulting because that would trigger a collapse in the German banking system.

    The total debt figures change depending on who is quoting them, when you get the really big figures being quoted to exaggerate the effect, they are including pension liabilities, if you go off those figures then nearly all the UK debt is owed within the UK.

    Some further background here, according to this its around 80% owed in the UK, 20% abroad (big difference from Greece who owed 70% abroad!): http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...deficit-threat

    It's also interesting considering how often the figures are quoted about how much we will be spending in interest on our debt...last year we spent about 3% of GDP on debt interest, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts that by the end of the Coalition's term in office that figure will have increased to 3.7%. To put that in context, it was over 4.2% for the whole of Mrs Thatcher's time in office and was 3.5% when New Labour took over. So although this has recently entered the public consciousness, we are not talking about debt servicing figures which are anything different from where they have been before.
 
 
 
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