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Job centres tricking claimants out of benefits watch

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    (Original post by ppp)
    Not to sure where you get this from you must be deluded people aren't just getting offered jobs like that left right and centre
    That was one of the supposed 'traps'. The Jobcentre apparently offers jobs of a different profession, and two weeks later if you don't apply because you don't like said profession they cut your allowance.
    To which I replied if you don't like the job tough, a job is a job.
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    (Original post by ppp)
    Its alright for those with a job but it is clear there is a lack of jobs. I myself aren't unemployed but i know many people who are and i can assure you it isn't a life style choice and all these people's life's are hell at the moment struggling to pay bills etc etc. most of these people are very educated and have even been applying for jobs in McDonald's and getting turned away.

    "If you're a plumber and don't want to work in a call centre"

    Not to sure where you get this from you must be deluded people aren't just getting offered jobs like that left right and centre
    It's important to remember that TSR is full of ignorant students completely detached from the real world.
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    I like to trick the job centre out of benefits. haha.
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    (Original post by marcusfox)
    Nope, I think I understood it pretty well.

    If you don't follow the rules that apply to claiming a benefit, then that benefit will be cut. Whether or not you are a genuine claimant or you are swinging the lead.

    These rules are pretty clearly explained to you, such as keeping a record of your jobsearch activity, applying for all the jobs that the JC ask you to apply for and turn up at your regular scheduled time to sign and discuss your jobsearch activities and how they might be improved.

    Things that are a lot easier to comply with than you'd think, and often much less stringent than many obligations applied to you if you do have a job.
    Have you ever been on benefits? and if so long term? its not as "easy" as you make it as the jobcentre puts up barriers and tries to catch you out over anything and twist things.

    Has happened to me and a few people I know to extremes i.e me being too honest that I didnt realise a form was due in same day as I was given it for a job(when there was under 30 minutes to JC closed and I had like 15 other forms to fill in its not that hard to do) then had money stopped for 6 months which was stupid as that affected me getting a job!

    Also I wanted to do a Princes Trust course as I had self esteem issues and my advisor refused and told me to work in a charity shop instead as it will be "better on my cv" despite the Princes Trust course having work experience with much better employers who pretty much guarantee you a job, doing charity work etc.

    I had my money stopped another time as I had to cancel appointment as broke my foot and the advisor was part time but they closed my claim as I hadnt been in within 7 days to see my advisor!

    Another time they forgot to make me an appointment to transfer a claim so I appealed and lost my appeal and 5 weeks money!

    So its not all "easy" signing on.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    That was one of the supposed 'traps'. The Jobcentre apparently offers jobs of a different profession, and two weeks later if you don't apply because you don't like said profession they cut your allowance.
    To which I replied if you don't like the job tough, a job is a job.
    Yes i tottally agree my point was that from what my friends have told they have never been offered jobs and just get the feeling the advisor just doesn't give two ****s and is not interested in helping them find a job.

    If they had offered them jobs i can assure you they would of snapped the advisors arm to get it.
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Said like a true person who hasnt experienced many bad things in life and only experienced life on paper.
    I was on JSA - briefly. Hated it, and got off as soon as I could.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Somehow you generalise Polish people as hard working and think thats ok, and think its just as ok to brush the average benefit claimant as not wanting to work.
    (Original post by marcusfox)
    ...find that the majority of Polish people are hard working... average benefit claimant would rather remain on the dole than do these jobs...
    Yes, I think it is fair to say the majority of Polish people are hard working. Granted, they will get higher wages in this country than they will in Poland, which is why they have come here. Nevertheless, they have come here to work, and work they do.

    Didn't say they didn't want to work. I said they would rather remain on the dole than do these jobs. There's the difference. As evidenced by the fact that employers are finding that they are only able to fill these jobs with migrant workers, in spite of them being advertised in the jobcentres. Check jobcentres, you will see there are jobs available. Pretty crappy jobs to be sure, but jobs nonetheless.

    Sure, there will be examples where Poles are targetted for these jobs for whatever reason, but generally speaking, these jobs are not restricted only to Poles.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Theres a clear difference between expecting certain standards from an employer like being treated better than just being a complainer, many Polish accept jobs where they are worked almost like slaves and dont complain, that doesnt mean they are any more hard working but they are more desperate than a UK person for a job.
    Are you stating your opinion here or is that a fact? Polish people came to this country because they can earn better wages here than back home, and the vast majority enjoy the experience and are pleased for the opportunity. It has nothing to do with slavery.

    Maybe you hit the nail on the head with the last thing I've highlighted for you.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Also if more Polish people are applying for said job it could mean the employer wants to just hire all or mostly people of one type so they work in a team better, whats the point of having a few British people working with loads of Polish and being left out both by language barriers and social barriers a good thing?
    I've worked in a place where almost 50% of the staff are Polish. I can assure you that although they tend to associate in their own groups, there is very little problem with them understanding instructions given in English.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Theres a difference between having more than a few pence left at end of a week and people saying that isnt right and having tons of money to splash out.
    The whole point of benefit is meant to provide a minimum standard of living, so people don't have to sleep on the street.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    i.e living off bread, water and pasta and after paying rent and utilities only having enough to say treat themselves to something like a drink in pub and some sweets doesnt mean their money should be cut down it means they havent spend enough on food
    Again, benefits aren't intended to provide a comfortable standard of living, they are there to provide a mimimum basic standard. I realise this isn't the socialist ideal, but that's the way it is.
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Have you ever been on benefits? and if so long term? its not as "easy" as you make it as the jobcentre puts up barriers and tries to catch you out over anything and twist things.
    Yes, as mentioned in my other reply to you, I have. Hated it.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Has happened to me and a few people I know to extremes i.e me being too honest that I didnt realise a form was due in same day as I was given it for a job(when there was under 30 minutes to JC closed and I had like 15 other forms to fill in its not that hard to do) then had money stopped for 6 months which was stupid as that affected me getting a job!
    Not the jobcentre's fault is it? When they jobcentre staff gave you these jobs and told you about them, you had the opportunity to discuss any issues before you left.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Also I wanted to do a Princes Trust course as I had self esteem issues and my advisor refused and told me to work in a charity shop instead as it will be "better on my cv" despite the Princes Trust course having work experience with much better employers who pretty much guarantee you a job, doing charity work etc.
    Well, I can sort of see their point here. If there are jobs available, shouldn't you be taking these rather than going on courses?

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    I had my money stopped another time as I had to cancel appointment as broke my foot and the advisor was part time but they closed my claim as I hadnt been in within 7 days to see my advisor!
    If you broke your foot, you tell them, rearrange appointment, then when its in plaster, you can still get around on crutches. If it was such an injury that stops you getting about/working, then it's incapacity benefit you need, not JSA.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Another time they forgot to make me an appointment to transfer a claim so I appealed and lost my appeal and 5 weeks money!
    Sorry, not familiar with what you mean by "transfer a claim"? However, on appeal you were found to be at fault in some way? What was that reason exactly? Surely you were aware of the fact that you needed an appointment and that you didn't have one? Did you not chase it up?

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    So its not all "easy" signing on.
    It is simple enough. But by easy, you mean comfortable, it really isn't meant to be. But sorry to say it, your post just reads like a lot of excuses.
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    (Original post by ppp)
    Yes i tottally agree my point was that from what my friends have told they have never been offered jobs and just get the feeling the advisor just doesn't give two ****s and is not interested in helping them find a job.
    They will have been given printouts of jobs to apply for and told to search for jobs. Not "offered jobs". Because to continue grtting their giro, they will have to show that they have been applying at each signing on.

    Are you telling me they can't find any job adverts? Too funny.

    Nope, the advisor probably isn't interested in helping them find a job. Probably only interested in ensuring they comply with the JSA rules, which means they must be searching for and applying for jobs.

    (Original post by ppp)
    If they had offered them jobs i can assure you they would of snapped the advisors arm to get it.
    I'm sure they would have. But they aren't there to offer them jobs. They are there to advise them on how to look for work and ensure they are doing so. At the very least this will involve saying "Here's some printed job adverts. Go and apply for them.". But in addition to this, they are expected to do more.
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    Look at that chav at the start moaning about unfair life is. What a disgrace. I know ****loads of people like that and they do **** all to get work.
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    (Original post by ppp)
    Its alright for those with a job but it is clear there is a lack of jobs. I myself aren't unemployed but i know many people who are and i can assure you it isn't a life style choice and all these people's life's are hell at the moment struggling to pay bills etc etc. most of these people are very educated and have even been applying for jobs in McDonald's and getting turned away.

    "If you're a plumber and don't want to work in a call centre"

    Not to sure where you get this from you must be deluded people aren't just getting offered jobs like that left right and centre
    I don't know where you get this idea from. There ARE jobs. Pretty undesirable jobs, to be sure, but jobs nonetheless. Jobs that require very little in the way of life experience or even qualifications. Most of those people in that video didn't seem "very educated" as you claim.

    In fact, I'm so confident that there are going to be jobs within at least an hour's commute point of any signing on centre, if you provide the location of where you claim there "are a lack of jobs" and I'll prove you wrong.

    Jobs that anyone has the ability to do. The whole point of the exercise is to get you a job, not to get you a job that you actually want, or even enjoy.

    Of course, if the person is pretty much unemployable in the first place, then it isn't going to matter.
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    This is very true. I have been sanctioned for two months in the past. I thought it was totally unfair that they sanctioned me for two months just because I didn't follow-up on a job when I realised that I was unqualified and inexperienced for it. Now whenever I enquire about a job I make sure that I record all my steps. I take photographs of me posting the application form and then I contact the employer straight away to tell them that I've sent them the application. The phone call will be recorded on my phone.

    If I have not applied for at least one job in a week I tend to state that I have approached local employers to ask them if they are still looking for staff. This trick seems to work well. Another gtood trick is to take a file filled with papers and goals and get them to see that you are really doing all you can whether it be finding training, updating your CV, learning new skills or whathaveyou. I do this anyway because I like to be organised.

    The Job Centre get a memo from the DWP every so often to make cuts. People don't believe me when I say this. But I know a number of ex-employees who worked for the Job Centre and they were periodically told by the DWP to make cuts, to clamp down and try to get people not to sign-on.
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    (Original post by marcusfox)
    I don't know where you get this idea from. There ARE jobs. Pretty undesirable jobs, to be sure, but jobs nonetheless. Jobs that require very little in the way of life experience or even qualifications. Most of those people in that video didn't seem "very educated" as you claim.

    In fact, I'm so confident that there are going to be jobs within at least an hour's commute point of any signing on centre, if you provide the location of where you claim there "are a lack of jobs" and I'll prove you wrong.

    Jobs that anyone has the ability to do. The whole point of the exercise is to get you a job, not to get you a job that you actually want, or even enjoy.

    Of course, if the person is pretty much unemployable in the first place, then it isn't going to matter.
    Last week I applied for a job as an industrial cleaner in a local printing warehouse (about 2 mile from the vicinity of the Job Centre). I was told that I lacked experience and qualifications. This is just to clean the factory floor.

    The week before that I applied for a job as an office temp. Although I can work a computer, write a letter, or an email, I could not use Excel and did not know how to use spreadsheets. After asking the employer whould they train me up to use these applications, they declined me the offer of the job. They also said that they were looking for someone who had just left school.

    Two weeks ago I applied to work at Iceland. After uploading my CV to their website and after waiting for a reply from them, when the store finally opened they had recruited staff from another store, and took on staff from outside of the local town. What happened to giving local people the jobs?

    These are just some of the barriers, I and many others face with getting these so-called "easy" jobs.
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    (Original post by Lizia)
    The job centre worker undermines themselves when they cite the example of a plumber who won't work any job but plumbing as a 'helpless victim'. So what if you have specialist skills- if no one wants those skills, you suck it up and do something else. Plenty of people can't find their ideal job, but it doesn't mean the government should subsidise you to sit on benefits until it turns up. I plan to qualify as a teacher in future. If I can't get a job as a teacher, I'll take whatever job I can to pay my own way. I don't see why a plumber is any different. Seeking a job should mean exactly what it says- you're seeking a job, any job. Not that you're too arrogant to take a job you consider beneath you and think that entitles you to handouts.
    There is a massive over-sight here. Getting a job usually means losing your benefits which could result in you becoming financially worse off. The notion that a person could take two jobs to make it up the shortfall in benefits is often very difficult to reconcile because it depends upon the flexibility of each job you take. If you take a cleaning job, for example, it would be very difficult to take another cleaning job because usually they run at the same time (usually from 7 or 8 in the morning). Then again, many cleaning jobs are just 2 or three hours here and there. Hardly worth spending money on bus-fares to get there.

    What is any job? Any job is whatever job is advertised. These range from experienced required to no experience required. But taking a job may mean that you would lose-out on benefits which may leave you worse off. You have to ask yourself whether you could handle losing £10 per week or more by taking the job. How would you make cuts? How would you now afford the rent to keep a roof over your head?

    Lastly, in my experience taking "any job" is not gainful employment and it may harm your CV. For one, it doesn't seem to elate potential employers, because when you go for that dream job they'll see that you did those "easy" jobs. This prompts employees to question your abilities. Personally, I have heard of applicants being turned down because they had taken these types of jobs. Now, I have done these jobs. I could fill my CV with them. You have to choose therefore either to leave them out which would show gaps in your work history, or put them in which would show that you just casually went from one job to the other, or downgrade your job searches. In my experience, these types of jobs don't last very long either. They are badly paid as well, and they don't do much for your self-esteem.

    Ultimately, every individual has their own circumstances. The choices you make ultimately affects what you are going to do, or going to be able to do, in the future.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    Last week I applied for a job as an industrial cleaner in a local printing warehouse (about 2 mile from the vicinity of the Job Centre). I was told that I lacked experience and qualifications. This is just to clean the factory floor.

    The week before that I applied for a job as an office temp. Although I can work a computer, write a letter, or an email, I could not use Excel and did not know how to use spreadsheets. After asking the employer whould they train me up to use these applications, they declined me the offer of the job. They also said that they were looking for someone who had just left school.

    Two weeks ago I applied to work at Iceland. After uploading my CV to their website and after waiting for a reply from them, when the store finally opened they had recruited staff from another store, and took on staff from outside of the local town. What happened to giving local people the jobs?

    These are just some of the barriers, I and many others face with getting these so-called "easy" jobs.
    Yes Martyn, I happen to agree with you here.

    However, if you were on Job Seeker's Allowance [which is the basis of this thread], you would have detailed these steps in your jobsearch log, along with your other efforts and your benefit would continue.

    The whole point is that there ARE jobs available to apply for that they have a reasonable chance of securing based on their experience and qualifications.

    If people are making the effort to apply for them, then they will continue to get their seeking employment benefits
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    (Original post by Lizia)
    The job centre worker undermines themselves when they cite the example of a plumber who won't work any job but plumbing as a 'helpless victim'. So what if you have specialist skills- if no one wants those skills, you suck it up and do something else. Plenty of people can't find their ideal job, but it doesn't mean the government should subsidise you to sit on benefits until it turns up. I plan to qualify as a teacher in future. If I can't get a job as a teacher, I'll take whatever job I can to pay my own way. I don't see why a plumber is any different. Seeking a job should mean exactly what it says- you're seeking a job, any job. Not that you're too arrogant to take a job you consider beneath you and think that entitles you to handouts.


    The Job Centre system is a total joke and needs shaking up somehow. I signed on for a month or two during my gap year. I have very good exam results from GCSEs and A-levels, spoke three languages and had experience in retail and as a receptionist in a hotel. The job centre refused to let me apply for any jobs more advanced than being a waitress, since I was 'too young' to work in 'a serious field'. They were quite happy to let people with no qualifications, experience or even any idea of how to present themselves apply for the jobs, but not me. Even when there were several receptionist jobs available and no waitress/shop assistant ones, they would rather I didn't apply for anything than let me apply for a job they felt should go to a grown up. Apparently keeping me signing on indefinitely and sponging off other people was preferable to me applying for the jobs and maybe getting off the dole sooner.
    First paragraph, good, I totally agree with that. +1

    Second paragraph also true, but what's stopping you going to a Jobcentre help point or even your own PC and printing off and applying for those jobs yourself without any Jobcentre input?

    EDIT - OK, I ran out of rating for today. But I'll be back.
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    (Original post by marcusfox)
    Yes Martyn, I happen to agree with you here.

    However, if you were on Job Seeker's Allowance [which is the basis of this thread], you would have detailed these steps in your jobsearch log, along with your other efforts and your benefit would continue.

    The whole point is that there ARE jobs available to apply for that they have a reasonable chance of securing based on their experience and qualifications.

    If people are making the effort to apply for them, then they will continue to get their seeking employment benefits
    There are jobs available. But you have to fit the criteria for the job. An employer is not going to take you on just because you can show how keen you are getting a job. They are taking a risk by taking you on, and that's why they have interviews. They interview people who they think will be beneficial and right for their company. Getting an interview is not the same as getting a job either. Now it's difficult just getting an interview. The amount of rejection letters I have had....
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    There is a massive over-sight here. Getting a job usually means losing your benefits which could result in you becoming financially worse off. The notion that a person could take two jobs to make it up the shortfall in benefits is often very difficult to reconcile because it depends upon the flexibility of each job you take. If you take a cleaning job, for example, it would be very difficult to take another cleaning job because usually they run at the same time (usually from 7 or 8 in the morning). Then again, many cleaning jobs are just 2 or three hours here and there. Hardly worth spending money on bus-fares to get there.
    Not entirely sure as its a while since I had any experience of this, but you may be able to earn a small amount without having your benefit affected. In any case, what you earn otherwise is pound-for-pound deducted from your benefit.

    (Original post by Martyn*)
    What is any job? Any job is whatever job is advertised. These range from experienced required to no experience required. But taking a job may mean that you would lose-out on benefits which may leave you worse off. You have to ask yourself whether you could handle losing £10 per week or more by taking the job. How would you make cuts? How would you now afford the rent to keep a roof over your head?
    You can still get your rent paid through housing benefit while you are working, you know? Otherwise my point above applies.

    (Original post by Martyn*)
    Lastly, in my experience taking "any job" is not gainful employment and it may harm your CV. For one, it doesn't seem to elate potential employers, because when you go for that dream job they'll see that you did those "easy" jobs. This prompts employees to question your abilities. Personally, I have heard of applicants being turned down because they had taken these types of jobs. Now, I have done these jobs. I could fill my CV with them. You have to choose therefore either to leave them out which would show gaps in your work history, or put them in which would show that you just casually went from one job to the other, or downgrade your job searches. In my experience, these types of jobs don't last very long either. They are badly paid as well, and they don't do much for your self-esteem.
    More so than a two year gap on your CV? I hardly think that getting you a job that would be bad for your CV is a major concern of Jobcentre staff, and neither should it be, in my opinion.

    (Original post by Martyn*)
    Ultimately, every individual has their own circumstances. The choices you make ultimately affects what you are going to do, or going to be able to do, in the future.
    That's the reality of life.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    There are jobs available. But you have to fit the criteria for the job. An employer is not going to take you on just because you can show how keen you are getting a job. They are taking a risk by taking you on, and that's why they have interviews. They interview people who they think will be beneficial and right for their company. Getting an interview is not the same as getting a job either. Now it's difficult just getting an interview. The amount of rejection letters I have had....
    At the risk of repeating myself - yeah, I know, being unemployed is crap.

    This thread is about people being chucked off JSA. I've heard claims that there aren't any jobs available. Rubbish. Just ones no one wants to do. If you can't get a job that no one wants to do, what hope is there for you?

    Nevertheless, if you are seeking work, you will continue to get the benefits that give you a minium standard of living.

    [By the way, I am not being personal here, I mean 'you' in the sense of the average JSA claimant.]
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    (Original post by marcusfox)
    At the risk of repeating myself - yeah, I know, being unemployed is crap.

    This thread is about people being chucked off JSA. I've heard claims that there aren't any jobs available. Rubbish. Just ones no one wants to do. If you can't get a job that no one wants to do, what hope is there for you?

    Nevertheless, if you are seeking work, you will continue to get the benefits that give you a minium standard of living.

    [By the way, I am not being personal here, I mean 'you' in the sense of the average JSA claimant.]
    What no-one wants to do. What does that mean?

    If you are trying to say that people should apply for MCdonalds jobs then you are clearly not seeing the bigger picture. Applying for these kind of jobs comes with it a whole host of problems. You can't just take any job. It depends upon your personal circumstances.
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    The Guardian story runs together two different concepts as if they are the same.

    The first is whether Job Centres are operating targets for sanctions. If a Job Centre manager thinks that his or her staff are accepting non-compliance with Job Seekers Agreements too lightly, one can well see why they would want to ginger them up a bit.

    The second is "tricking" claimants into non-compliance. That seems to be entirely implausible. Remember, any claimant can appeal any sanction to an independent Tribunal Judge. If a Job Centre was having an abnormal number of appeals allowed, higher management would be on to them for poor decision-making.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Another time they forgot to make me an appointment to transfer a claim so I appealed and lost my appeal and 5 weeks money!
    You had 20-30 minutes of the undivided attention of a Judge (the DWP very rarely turn up for appeals) yet you still didn't manage to convince him or her that you had done nothing wrong.
 
 
 
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