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    hi..
    I'm really confused between two degrees.... I have always been interested in Business management but after studying Economics.. I find it really interesting... but I dont know which degree I should apply

    BSC- business/management economics
    BSC - mangement

    PS: which degree can land me a better job in consultancy/investment banking

    thanks for your help
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    Neither. Do the ACA at a Big 4.

    If you want any chance of getting into the top jobs going down the Uni route - you'll need:
    3 A's a-level
    top 20 Uni

    - if you fluff a-levels first time or get a 2:2 you'll struggle to get past recruitment computers...

    Subject is not important within reason (accounting and finance will give you exemptions) - top 5 uni preferred by banking snobs.

    Big 4 ACA however - you can walk into a bank in an associate role - its the safe way into top finance jobs, its easier to get into a big 4 than a bank.

    Ideally pick a course that gives exemptions from the ACA and you will be sorted come grad apps for the Big 4 if you don't go straight in from school or can't get into i-banking/consulting immediately.
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    (Original post by davidr123)
    Neither. Do the ACA at a Big 4.

    If you want any chance of getting into the top jobs going down the Uni route - you'll need:
    3 A's a-level
    top 20 Uni

    - if you fluff a-levels first time or get a 2:2 you'll struggle to get past recruitment computers...

    Subject is not important within reason (accounting and finance will give you exemptions) - top 5 uni preferred by banking snobs.

    Big 4 ACA however - you can walk into a bank in an associate role - its the safe way into top finance jobs, its easier to get into a big 4 than a bank.

    Ideally pick a course that gives exemptions from the ACA and you will be sorted come grad apps for the Big 4 if you don't go straight in from school or can't get into i-banking/consulting immediately.
    Ive got AAB- in economics, Bio, Chem
    A- in URDU language..

    Im planning to do undergraduate from a russel group then do masters in International business r MBA from LSBF.... Im really not interested in accountancy...

    do you think ive got a shot
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    (Original post by greenford)
    Ive got AAB- in economics, Bio, Chem
    A- in URDU language..

    Im planning to do undergraduate from a russel group then do masters in International business r MBA from LSBF.... Im really not interested in accountancy...

    do you think ive got a shot
    It's not really a good idea to do undergraduate business cos it really isn't respected at all by the IBs. I would have suggested you go for straight economics but that will be extremely difficult without A level Maths.
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    (Original post by greenford)
    hi..
    I'm really confused between two degrees.... I have always been interested in Business management but after studying Economics.. I find it really interesting... but I dont know which degree I should apply

    BSC- business/management economics
    BSC - mangement

    PS: which degree can land me a better job in consultancy/investment banking

    thanks for your help
    Why not apply for Economics courses? (Well, actually without A-level maths you might struggle but still consider it)

    Of the two courses you've specified, I don't think either will help or hinder more than the other when it comes to jobs in IB/Consultancy. Uni reputation probably counts for more. I'd personally go for the business/management economics one.

    But, consider applying for a straight economics course or something similar. Places like Exeter and Nottingham don't require A-level maths from what I know and are very well respected (the AAB at A-level might be a problem, but you could get lucky especially with Notts)
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    (Original post by n_251)
    Why not apply for Economics courses? (Well, actually without A-level maths you might struggle but still consider it)

    Of the two courses you've specified, I don't think either will help or hinder more than the other when it comes to jobs in IB/Consultancy. Uni reputation probably counts for more. I'd personally go for the business/management economics one.

    But, consider applying for a straight economics course or something similar. Places like Exeter and Nottingham don't require A-level maths from what I know and are very well respected (the AAB at A-level might be a problem, but you could get lucky especially with Notts)
    yes you are correct... ive looked into the courses and got in contact with the admissions... these uni's dont require maths...
    Birmingham
    Nottingham
    City
    Leeeds
    Sheffield
    Liverpool
    sessex
    mancheter
    newcastle

    Economics at AS/A2 is not really hard without Maths..also all the uni's above consider URDU language as an A level and an A in it is counted a a proper a level.
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    (Original post by kbountra)
    It's not really a good idea to do undergraduate business cos it really isn't respected at all by the IBs. I would have suggested you go for straight economics but that will be extremely difficult without A level Maths.
    I was not talking business as a degree on its own ... I was talking about Business Economics or Management Economics
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    (Original post by greenford)
    Ive got AAB- in economics, Bio, Chem
    A- in URDU language..

    Im planning to do undergraduate from a russel group then do masters in International business r MBA from LSBF.... Im really not interested in accountancy...

    do you think ive got a shot
    This is the problem.

    You have no contacts - so are listening to teachers who are duping you into wasting time and money studying, and obsessing about qualfications.

    Both degrees are fine - degree subject is nto an issue.

    Of course you have a shot - but weirdly the more you study and the more academics qualifications you get - the less chance you have against the competition - you are evidencing a lack of commercial awareness and missing out on experience.

    The important thing to realise is 1000's apply for these entry level banking jobs - how can your application add more value to get in?

    The 1 thing that counts over everything is actual experience on the job.

    The faster you get into actually doing the work - the better - masters are utterly worthless.

    A big 4 ACA is far more respected than an MBA, an MBA is only ever worth doing if you are a rich kid and go to a top school to network with other rich kids whilst playing polo - if not LSBF is sadly an office room with taxi drivers/pizza deliver boys/international students without contacts so completely defeats this point and will add no value to your CV - and may actually worsen it.

    -

    Above all you must meet a firms "core competencies" - in banking you are either going in as an analyst or associate. They want to see:

    1. Top traditional a-levels (quatitative maths ability)
    2. Social skills/good looks - sports
    3. Internship/solid work experience in the field
    4. 2:1
    5. Proven ability to be an unquestioning slave
    6. Contacts/network

    This is where the ACA trumps absolutely everything - by virtue of holding it you automatically tick every box.

    You've also put yourself clearly ahead of everyone else with a-levels and a 2:1, as the ACA sorts the wheat from the chaff like no academic institution could ever do...

    To summarize you have 2 options:

    1. Enter as analyst
    Here you must have top a-levels a 2:1, internship and very good social skills/contacts adn compete against other grads.

    2. Enter as associate
    Do the ACA at a Big 4 - compete against the other Big 4 ACA's

    Basically if you don't have contacts - the faster you get into a relevant professional firm the better.

    The ACA PAYS £25k a year whilst you do it for 3 years - and means you can enter as an associate.

    A Masters means you pay £1000's, earn no money then have to start as an analyst anyway - just like people entering banking from a-levels or undergraduate level.
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    (Original post by davidr123)
    This is the problem.

    You have no contacts - so are listening to teachers who are duping you into wasting time and money studying, and obsessing about qualfications.

    Both degrees are fine - degree subject is nto an issue.

    Of course you have a shot - but weirdly the more you study and the more academics qualifications you get - the less chance you have against the competition - you are evidencing a lack of commercial awareness and missing out on experience.

    The important thing to realise is 1000's apply for these entry level banking jobs - how can your application add more value to get in?

    The 1 thing that counts over everything is actual experience on the job.

    The faster you get into actually doing the work - the better - masters are utterly worthless.

    A big 4 ACA is far more respected than an MBA, an MBA is only ever worth doing if you are a rich kid and go to a top school to network with other rich kids whilst playing polo - if not LSBF is sadly an office room with taxi drivers/pizza deliver boys/international students without contacts so completely defeats this point and will add no value to your CV - and may actually worsen it.

    -

    Above all you must meet a firms "core competencies" - in banking you are either going in as an analyst or associate. They want to see:

    1. Top traditional a-levels (quatitative maths ability)
    2. Social skills/good looks - sports
    3. Internship/solid work experience in the field
    4. 2:1
    5. Proven ability to be an unquestioning slave
    6. Contacts/network

    This is where the ACA trumps absolutely everything - by virtue of holding it you automatically tick every box.

    You've also put yourself clearly ahead of everyone else with a-levels and a 2:1, as the ACA sorts the wheat from the chaff like no academic institution could ever do...

    To summarize you have 2 options:

    1. Enter as analyst
    Here you must have top a-levels a 2:1, internship and very good social skills/contacts adn compete against other grads.

    2. Enter as associate
    Do the ACA at a Big 4 - compete against the other Big 4 ACA's

    Basically if you don't have contacts - the faster you get into a relevant professional firm the better.

    The ACA PAYS £25k a year whilst you do it for 3 years - and means you can enter as an associate.

    A Masters means you pay £1000's, earn no money then have to start as an analyst anyway - just like people entering banking from a-levels or undergraduate level.
    im not really sure what an ACA is ...... is it hard to get into with the big 4... also should I even do the ACA as im not interested in accountacy? thanks.....

    I am planing to take a gap a year... do you think I should enrol in KPMG gap year programme also this is what im planning to do....
    do a degree
    work for 3 years
    then do masters

    what do you think
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    Okay, give me some info and I'll give some objective advice about choices you can think about or ask others about.

    Trust me - all the following questions are relevant:

    1. How old are you and have you actually got your a-levels done?

    2. What do your parents do - do you have any contacts in accountants/banks?

    3. Have you applied to university and if so have you any offers?

    4. Are you good at sports/good looking/confident?

    5. Are you financially comfortable/poor?

    I'll explain as best as I can what options are best or are open to you - there is nothing stopping you pursuing different tactics at the same time - I'd reccomend that as the best way to approach it.

    Honestly providing you get 3 A's at a-level first time - you'll be fine - that is the most important thing, the rest of the game is just adding value to your application to beat the other competitors.

    3 A's at a-level is worth more than an MBA, Bsc, 2:1 in the recruitment game - I'll explain why as well.

    You need to work clever - not hard - don't put yourself through endless studying that adds no value.

    I went to Uni and am doing the ACA, know others who went straight into banking from Uni or used the ACA to jump over.

    I'm not interested in banking myself but can help with how to approach the recruitment and explain the game a bit.
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    Do you really want to do a degree? Or are you itching to start earning £££ and climb the corporate ladder and see it as a necessary evil?

    Will get back to you tomorrow and give you some links to other sites which will help you work things out or ask further questions.
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    (Original post by davidr123)
    Okay, give me some info and I'll give some objective advice about choices you can think about or ask others about.

    Trust me - all the following questions are relevant:

    1. How old are you and have you actually got your a-levels done?

    2. What do your parents do - do you have any contacts in accountants/banks?

    3. Have you applied to university and if so have you any offers?

    4. Are you good at sports/good looking/confident?

    5. Are you financially comfortable/poor?

    I'll explain as best as I can what options are best or are open to you - there is nothing stopping you pursuing different tactics at the same time - I'd reccomend that as the best way to approach it.

    Honestly providing you get 3 A's at a-level first time - you'll be fine - that is the most important thing, the rest of the game is just adding value to your application to beat the other competitors.

    3 A's at a-level is worth more than an MBA, Bsc, 2:1 in the recruitment game - I'll explain why as well.

    You need to work clever - not hard - don't put yourself through endless studying that adds no value.

    I went to Uni and am doing the ACA, know others who went straight into banking from Uni or used the ACA to jump over.

    I'm not interested in banking myself but can help with how to approach the recruitment and explain the game a bit.
    • Im 18, taking a gap year
    • I have done AS and got AABB and Im predicted AAB ( I might retake a module in my gap year)
    • Really close family friend works at KPMG or PWC cant remember, also my dad has friends who are CA
    • I haven't got any offers
    • I'm good at badminton, al right at basketball and fairly good looking
    • Im good financially...not poor not very rich


    Im looking to a degree at least I have some solid qualification
    thanks a lot for your help..really appreciate it
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    Cool - all your options are open, relax and work hard to make sure you get those grades at A-level.

    Re-takes do not count on applications - so I cannot stress how important it is that you achieve as high marks as possible for theeh a-levels first time.

    I'll reply to this tomorrow.
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    (Original post by davidr123)
    Cool - all your options are open, relax and work hard to make sure you get those grades at A-level.

    Re-takes do not count on applications - so I cannot stress how important it is that you achieve as high marks as possible for theeh a-levels first time.

    I'll reply to this tomorrow.
    but the thing im not really interested in accounting.. also Ill have to retake A module next year to get an A in Biology
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    (Original post by greenford)
    yes you are correct... ive looked into the courses and got in contact with the admissions... these uni's dont require maths...
    Birmingham
    Nottingham
    City
    Leeeds
    Sheffield
    Liverpool
    sessex
    mancheter
    newcastle

    Economics at AS/A2 is not really hard without Maths..also all the uni's above consider URDU language as an A level and an A in it is counted a a proper a level.

    Now, I could be wrong, but hear me out:

    This is A2 economics. Of course it wont be that hard, especially not the maths part. But apparantly your entire first year at places like LSE is based on maths, so it's worth thinking about.

    _Kar.
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    Look don't worry about accounting - you're missing the point, you are trying to play the recruitment game to get into banking.

    The easiest way to do this is to have a relative in a bank - then you need not do any exams or qualifications.

    Outside of that you are working out a strategy to beat everyone else to the job.

    If you get into Oxbridge and study anything no mater how non-relevant with AAA a-levels - again you don't need to worry about anything - you'll get intervews for anything you want.

    If you work hard now - what is the maximum you can get first time no retakes on 3 A-levels? - AAB, BBB, CCC forget about URDU - they are only interested in top 3 A-levels in one sitting no resits.
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    (Original post by davidr123)
    Look don't worry about accounting - you're missing the point, you are trying to play the recruitment game to get into banking.

    The easiest way to do this is to have a relative in a bank - then you need not do any exams or qualifications.

    Outside of that you are working out a strategy to beat everyone else to the job.

    If you get into Oxbridge and study anything no mater how non-relevant with AAA a-levels - again you don't need to worry about anything - you'll get intervews for anything you want.

    If you work hard now - what is the maximum you can get first time no retakes on 3 A-levels? - AAB, BBB, CCC forget about URDU - they are only interested in top 3 A-levels in one sitting no resits.
    can you explain me about ACA at big 4..... it it hard to get into?
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    ACA is an accounting qualification that the Big 4 fund you through over 3 (?) years if you get a position in their audit divisions (and mb some others).

    With the current grad market it's reasonably hard to get into, but easier than IB FO and consultancy.

    I suggest your next step is to use google, a lot
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    Okay-

    To get into banking or finance roles in general you have 2 options to get in without contacts:

    1. Analyst
    2. Associate

    A) Getting in as an analyst
    You can get in at this stage with really strong a-levels OR as a graduate.
    However competition is incredibly high - so they will generally want exceptional people (one famous Goldman Sachs guy did 14 a-levels) or the graduates from the very top universities (they don't care what the degree was in as long as its a top 5 Uni) or more often than not the clued up students (i.e. those with friends/family in banking) - they will expect you to understand what the job is about back to front.

    This is not to say you can't get in - so do try, but don't worry if you don't get in and DON"T do more than 3 a-levels - its pointless, just get 3 good ones.

    2. Getting in as an Associate
    Here is where the ACA comes into play - it is not an "accounting qualification" - it is in fact the premier business qualification available - and is better than any business related degree or masters to have from any university.

    The banks regualrly do a "milk round" of the Big 4 ACA students for front office roles - where you want to be...

    -

    Where the ACA differs from academic qualifications is BSc/BA/Msc etc are just bits of paper - they are fundamentally worthless - just like A-levels and GCSE's - you can't "do" anything by virtue of having them.

    The ACA however enables you to legally sign off an audit report by having it..

    What is audit? - Basically every traded firm needs an external auditor to check their financial records to ensure they are accurate for investors to invest money in - the big 4 handle all the FTSE 100 firms, banks etc.

    This means if you train in a big 4 for ACA you will be exposed to valuing real private sector businesses for firms involved in corporate finance and capital markets (i.e. investment banking).

    - So you've not only built up relevant experience, contacts and will now be head-hunted by banks to join them.

    You can get on a Big 4 ACA scheme with 3 b's at a-level and a non-relevant degree - but it is competitive and the a-levels must be first tiem passes - I's personally say aim for A*A*A* to give you the best shot at the most competitive ACA training posts - or you can qualify for the corporate finance divisions of the BIg 4 firms - check their sites.

    The pay is £25k a year rising with every exam pass - they pay for all your college and exams and deliver it in a structured way.

    It should dawn on you now that if you want to work in accountancy/finance/banking - there is no need to go to university...and get into debt.

    Once you have the ACA from a big 4 - you are guaranteed at least £45k a year starting as an accountant - even if you burn out of banking or get "culled" - it is that highly in demand and regarded - after 10 years as an ACA you'll be well into 6 figures...if you are good at your job of course.

    It is easier to join banks with the ACA than as a graduate.

    -

    So what do I advise for you aged 18?

    Options:
    cheapest:
    - Get into bank straight away or Big 4 ACA school leavers scheme if not.

    More expensive but less stress:
    - do an accounting and finance degree at a uni that will gain you exemptions from the first 12 ACA exams - you are then guaranteed a Big 4 job when you have to compete with othhter grads for the job and probably will be able to get internships at banks.

    Stupidly expensive and utterly pointless with no guarantee of anything:
    do a degree, then a masters, then apply to banks and big 4.

    -

    So - get your a-level results, apply to top 5 unis and the banks/big 4.

    If you don't get in - you can do the AAT at a small accountants (even high street firm) - then apply to Big 4 via AAT fast-track (gives exemptions from ACA).

    Discuss with your friend at PWC/KPMG and your dad's friend the accountant. - He could even give you work experience to help you join the Big 4 straight from school...or sign off your AAT so you got that straigh t on the CV and will be miles ahea d of everyone else...

    They will be able to tell you about the ACA>bank path and explain AAT. - AAT is actually a very good option to bridge the gap from a-level to ACA

    Sites for you to look at and google things liek "ACA" "big4" "getting into IB":

    Wikijob - read all grad expereinces of the big 4 and banks
    Wallstreetoasis - american but the comments about interviews are relevant

    - Now that all said - the ACA is hard, very, very hard - it is nothing like A-levels or a uni degree...

    -

    Above all - and it is boring - to maximise your chances - you should be aiming for top marks at a-level - they only look at your first attempt in one sitting.
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    (Original post by davidr123)
    Okay-

    To get into banking or finance roles in general you have 2 options to get in without contacts:

    1. Analyst
    2. Associate

    A) Getting in as an analyst
    You can get in at this stage with really strong a-levels OR as a graduate.
    However competition is incredibly high - so they will generally want exceptional people (one famous Goldman Sachs guy did 14 a-levels) or the graduates from the very top universities (they don't care what the degree was in as long as its a top 5 Uni) or more often than not the clued up students (i.e. those with friends/family in banking) - they will expect you to understand what the job is about back to front.

    This is not to say you can't get in - so do try, but don't worry if you don't get in and DON"T do more than 3 a-levels - its pointless, just get 3 good ones.

    2. Getting in as an Associate
    Here is where the ACA comes into play - it is not an "accounting qualification" - it is in fact the premier business qualification available - and is better than any business related degree or masters to have from any university.

    The banks regualrly do a "milk round" of the Big 4 ACA students for front office roles - where you want to be...

    -

    Where the ACA differs from academic qualifications is BSc/BA/Msc etc are just bits of paper - they are fundamentally worthless - just like A-levels and GCSE's - you can't "do" anything by virtue of having them.

    The ACA however enables you to legally sign off an audit report by having it..

    What is audit? - Basically every traded firm needs an external auditor to check their financial records to ensure they are accurate for investors to invest money in - the big 4 handle all the FTSE 100 firms, banks etc.

    This means if you train in a big 4 for ACA you will be exposed to valuing real private sector businesses for firms involved in corporate finance and capital markets (i.e. investment banking).

    - So you've not only built up relevant experience, contacts and will now be head-hunted by banks to join them.

    You can get on a Big 4 ACA scheme with 3 b's at a-level and a non-relevant degree - but it is competitive and the a-levels must be first tiem passes - I's personally say aim for A*A*A* to give you the best shot at the most competitive ACA training posts - or you can qualify for the corporate finance divisions of the BIg 4 firms - check their sites.

    The pay is £25k a year rising with every exam pass - they pay for all your college and exams and deliver it in a structured way.

    It should dawn on you now that if you want to work in accountancy/finance/banking - there is no need to go to university...and get into debt.

    Once you have the ACA from a big 4 - you are guaranteed at least £45k a year starting as an accountant - even if you burn out of banking or get "culled" - it is that highly in demand and regarded - after 10 years as an ACA you'll be well into 6 figures...if you are good at your job of course.

    It is easier to join banks with the ACA than as a graduate.

    -

    So what do I advise for you aged 18?

    Options:
    cheapest:
    - Get into bank straight away or Big 4 ACA school leavers scheme if not.

    More expensive but less stress:
    - do an accounting and finance degree at a uni that will gain you exemptions from the first 12 ACA exams - you are then guaranteed a Big 4 job when you have to compete with othhter grads for the job and probably will be able to get internships at banks.

    Stupidly expensive and utterly pointless with no guarantee of anything:
    do a degree, then a masters, then apply to banks and big 4.

    -

    So - get your a-level results, apply to top 5 unis and the banks/big 4.

    If you don't get in - you can do the AAT at a small accountants (even high street firm) - then apply to Big 4 via AAT fast-track (gives exemptions from ACA).

    Discuss with your friend at PWC/KPMG and your dad's friend the accountant. - He could even give you work experience to help you join the Big 4 straight from school...or sign off your AAT so you got that straigh t on the CV and will be miles ahea d of everyone else...

    They will be able to tell you about the ACA>bank path and explain AAT. - AAT is actually a very good option to bridge the gap from a-level to ACA

    Sites for you to look at and google things liek "ACA" "big4" "getting into IB":

    Wikijob - read all grad expereinces of the big 4 and banks
    Wallstreetoasis - american but the comments about interviews are relevant

    - Now that all said - the ACA is hard, very, very hard - it is nothing like A-levels or a uni degree...

    -

    Above all - and it is boring - to maximise your chances - you should be aiming for top marks at a-level - they only look at your first attempt in one sitting.

    after all options considering.. I think I will go for the 2nd one..doing a degree then applying to big 4...
    do I apply to the big 4 after doing the degree
 
 
 
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