Discrimination against public schools Watch

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JrW
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#1
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i am getting quite concerned about the amount of hatred towards public schools on this forum (i know not everybody but there seem quite a few). i do not have a problem at all with public schools. the only difference, generally, is better facilities in private schools(funded by the parents who pay). there are many public schools which are not as strong academically as state schools. so, i dont really know why, other than a hint of jealousy that people are so against the 'public school thing'.

Also, public schools are, by no means, for people with rich parents, everybody has the chance to go to a public school with bursaries and scholarships if they are clever enough.

so....what is at all wrong with public schools (admittedly, some public schools produce rather stuck up students but generally are just the same as most other schools)?

i rest my case
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fishpaste
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#2
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The only point I will argue with here is the "everyone has the chance to goto public schools if they're clever enough." This is just not true, culture and society means that some people would keep their children out of the private sector regardless of how clever they were. This is hardly the child's fault.

My main point is, though, that until education is awarded on a merit basis, there is inequity. If people are able to pay their way to the same resources as the clever kids, at the expense of the marginally less clever kids, then it's not awarded on a merit basis.
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Tek
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#3
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(Original post by fishpaste)
My main point is, though, that until education is awarded on a merit basis, there is inequity. If people are able to pay their way to the same resources as the clever resources, at the expense of the marginally less clever kids, then it's not awarded on a merit basis.
So what? Rich people can afford faster cars, bigger houses, longer holidays, and public schooling...it's one of the benefits of being rich.

Communist.
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musicbloke
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(Original post by jamierwilliams)
i am getting quite concerned about the amount of hatred towards public schools on this forum (i know not everybody but there seem quite a few). i do not have a problem at all with public schools. the only difference, generally, is better facilities in private schools(funded by the parents who pay). there are many public schools which are not as strong academically as state schools. so, i dont really know why, other than a hint of jealousy that people are so against the 'public school thing'.

Also, public schools are, by no means, for people with rich parents, everybody has the chance to go to a public school with bursaries and scholarships if they are clever enough.

so....what is at all wrong with public schools (admittedly, some public schools produce rather stuck up students but generally are just the same as most other schools)?

i rest my case
so you are saying that those with greater academic ability deserve smaller class sizes and better facilities. I believe you are confused. Isn't it the people who have most difficulty with school work that need this kind of support. I'm sure we have had this argue a million times already.

Musicboy
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JrW
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#5
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thats one of the fundametal flaws of the british education system....private schools arent always academically better than state schools...therefore you do not particularly have to pay for a better education, although i do think you are correct in saying that its wrong that you have to pay for smaller class sizes....the more i think of it, the more i think that there should not be such differences in advantages...therefore i think that the fees for public schools should be dramatically lowered so that a lot more people can benefit from their facilities.

Agree with me?
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fishpaste
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(Original post by jamierwilliams)
thats one of the fundametal flaws of the british education system....private schools arent always academically better than state schools...therefore you do not particularly have to pay for a better education, although i do think you are correct in saying that its wrong that you have to pay for smaller class sizes....the more i think of it, the more i think that there should not be such differences in advantages...therefore i think that the fees for public schools should be dramatically lowered so that a lot more people can benefit from their facilities.

Agree with me?
To 0? Yep
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hildabeast
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(Original post by jamierwilliams)
private schools arent always academically better than state schools...therefore you do not particularly have to pay for a better education,
So why do people still pay to send their children to private schools which are academically poorer than state schools??? Social kudos??? Hmmm, seems like this could breed snobbery to me.

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Helenia
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#8
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(Original post by jamierwilliams)
therefore i think that the fees for public schools should be dramatically lowered so that a lot more people can benefit from their facilities.

Agree with me?
But if fees were lowered, the schools wouldn't make so much money (regardless of how many more students they got - more students = having to hire more teachers + having to build more facilities = more expenditure)
It would be nice if that standard of education were available to everyone, but to do it that way is not economically viable.
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fishpaste
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#9
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(Original post by Helenia)
But if fees were lowered, the schools wouldn't make so much money (regardless of how many more students they got - more students = having to hire more teachers + having to build more facilities = more expenditure)
It would be nice if that standard of education were available to everyone, but to do it that way is not economically viable.
So why not compromise and have a midway standard of education for all?
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amexblack
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#10
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(Original post by hildabeast)
So why do people still pay to send their children to private schools which are academically poorer than state schools??? Social kudos??? Hmmm, seems like this could breed snobbery to me.

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have a quick surf of www.winchestercollege.org

Whilst Winchester is academically the best school in England, it also has excellent facilities. For most parents it's nothing to do with social kudos and snobbery (although there are bound to be exceptions). They wish for their children the best education and the best facilties. There are many other private/public schools less academic than Winchester but with equally good facilities. Sure, some state schools are academically better - but in terms of facilities they cannot compare. I would've thought all this was obvious.
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Suzy_vet
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#11
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It is so difficult to explain what i feel about this whole debate without sounded like i dont mean to (see, there you go, being incoherant again).

I have NOTHING against public school people. what gets me sometimes with some people though is their inability to see why SOME people would not like to go to a private school or send their kids there. I think all our opinions are rather limited by the fact that most of us have only experineced one or the other.

I will admit that there have been times when i have got fed up with disruptive people in my class. Public schools have better facilities and more money. many are better accademically, some are not. They generally have much fewer disrptive people if any. In an ideal world, everyone would like this.

As Tek keeps saying, we do not live in a communist country so we must accept inequality (i think thats it anyway). To a certain extent yes, theres no real way around that. All i ask is ACCEPTANCE to other peoples views. State school students will meet stuck up students and private school people will meet encredibly biased people will pre conceptions from state schhol. universities, in my opinion, should at least take account of a persons educational background. Im not sure ive heard one comment that doesnt agree with the fact that overall, private schools are better.

All i can say is i hope it doesnt happen often, and by accpeting other peoples views and different situations maybe we can stop it. We are all different, and unless we live in communist society then thats the way itl stay.
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Suzy_vet
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#12
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(Original post by amexblack)
have a quick surf of www.winchestercollege.org

Whilst Winchester is academically the best school in England, it also has excellent facilities. For most parents it's nothing to do with social kudos and snobbery (although there are bound to be exceptions). They wish for their children the best education and the best facilties. There are many other private/public schools less academic than Winchester but with equally good facilities. Sure, some state schools are academically better - but in terms of facilities they cannot compare. I would've thought all this was obvious.
Thats the kind of annoying comment thats just rubbing people up the wrong way. Its like saying 'look, my trainers are soooo much better than yours. dont you agree? kiss my feet. oh yeah, sorry, you cant afford them' or 'your not good enough to have these, but still tell me how great they are'.

YES, private schools ahve better facilities. Because peoples parents have enough money to pay! cricky, stop going on about it. those of us who dont have enough money, make the most of what weve got, which can only be fairly good apparently by your standards.
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amexblack
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#13
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(Original post by Suzy_vet)
Thats the kind of annoying comment thats just rubbing people up the wrong way. Its like saying 'look, my trainers are soooo much better than yours. dont you agree? kiss my feet. oh yeah, sorry, you cant afford them' or 'your not good enough to have these, but still tell me how great they are'.

YES, private schools ahve better facilities. Because peoples parents have enough money to pay! cricky, stop going on about it. those of us who dont have enough money, make the most of what weve got, which can only be fairly good apparently by your standards.

hang on a second. I didn't mean to boast ... I just felt slightly annoyed at Hilda's suggestion that my parents sent me to a private school for social kudos. I thought by linking to the school's website was a fairly modest way of explaining that the facilities probably do make it worth the money.

Obviously you realise private schools have great facilities, but I don't think Hildabeast did (why else would she make that comment earlier? perhaps just an oversight)
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Helenia
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(Original post by fishpaste)
So why not compromise and have a midway standard of education for all?
Errr, how?
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KaiserSoze
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#15
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Why are people against public schools?

If you are then think about it before you answer rather than just responding stock answers about equality. The issue comes up all the time on this board and yet the only argument against public schools that makes vague sense is the supposed brain drain of good teachers. However this pales in comparison to the economic impossibility of a flood of public school students going into the state school system - not one person bemoaning the lack of fairness has come up with a counter to this. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but there is a tendancy for people accusing any person/system od being unequal/unfair to ignore the realities of the situation in favour of socialist rhetoric.

Fishpastes comment in regards to "everyone has the chance to goto public schools if they're clever enough." that: "This is just not true, culture and society means that some people would keep their children out of the private sector regardless of how clever they were" is confusing equality of opportunity with equality of outcomes, they do have the chance to go (as everybody ahas the chance to go to university if they have the ability), the fact that they chose not to is a social problem not a result of unfairness on the part of public schools (which with universities are trying very hard to get the best talent - its in their interests as well as the students). Its worth noting that this is not as easy as it was thanks to blair's scrapping of the assisted places scheme, where is the improvement in state education that we might expect to make up for it?
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fishpaste
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#16
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To Helenia: surely a midstandard of education would be provided for all by taking the resources of the rich few and distributing them amongst everybody.

To the person who posted above me, 11 year olds don't get that much choice over where they goto school. If I somehow had ran into a free place at Manchester Grammar, my parents would not have let me go, why should I suffer? THough I see your point that private schools should not be worrying about this but the government.

I still hold my point though that until resources are rewarded on merit and not money, it's inequitable.
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musicbloke
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#17
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(Original post by KaiserSoze)
Why are people against public schools?

If you are then think about it before you answer rather than just responding stock answers about equality. The issue comes up all the time on this board and yet the only argument against public schools that makes vague sense is the supposed brain drain of good teachers. However this pales in comparison to the economic impossibility of a flood of public school students going into the state school system - not one person bemoaning the lack of fairness has come up with a counter to this. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but there is a tendancy for people accusing any person/system od being unequal/unfair to ignore the realities of the situation in favour of socialist rhetoric.
see my answer to this earlier in this thread. No-one has responded to it yet
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Tnacilppa
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#18
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(Original post by fishpaste)
To Helenia: surely a midstandard of education would be provided for all by taking the resources of the rich few and distributing them amongst everybody.
Yeah this would be similar to pissing in the sea. The resources would go nowhere and eventually become rundown. What you are effectively suggesting is that rich people pay for everyone's education. Which they effectively do anyway! My dad pays 40% tax on all his earnings and some of that goes to state-schools.

Why the hell should public schools be abolished and the money re-distributed. You seem really stupid. Should people who earn a lot of money have it taken away and given to poorer people? Should be all call each other Comrade?

Get a life and realise some people will always be richer than you and some poorer. The rich will have more choice. The poor will have less. This is life. I genuinely cannot believe some of your arguments. :mad:
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hildabeast
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#19
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(Original post by amexblack)
Obviously you realise private schools have great facilities, but I don't think Hildabeast did (why else would she make that comment earlier? perhaps just an oversight)
OK, of course I recognise that private schools tend to have better facilities, but if this doesn't equate to academic results I still fail to see why anyone would want to send their children to one of those independents which does not do as well as a local state school. I'm not suggesting that your parents sent you to a private school for social kudos, just that it seems the most likely explanation in a lot of cases, and this is definitely not a good thing.

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Suzy_vet
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#20
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I agree with hildabeast.

My mum is a primary school teacher at the village school. They provide a great deal of learning support for special needs kids. the other day she was talking to someone about a private primary school down the road about what provisions they make for these students. She said she was amazed to hear that they really provided very little at all, and nothing compared to what they do. People seem to think that simply because they are paying extra they are getting better, this simply is not always true.

My school has a whole block dedicated to learning support, for those with special needs. It also has an autistic unit for disabled kids which we often help out in, a school counsellor who is open for anyone to see, stubject based 'clubs' after school for people who need help or extra work for the bright. And we are a comprehensive state. It is one of the better schools, but i dont have much doubt that this would perhaps be better than the private school down the road.

It depends what your looking for really doesnt it. Private schools have failings too, despite their 'excellent facilities and more money' that people keep talking about.
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