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    White people complain about communism and then complain about capitalism; make up your mind!
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    This. Communism brings everyone down to make them 'equal', instead of pushing the exceptional to achieve their potential.
    It's like with everything else, what do you mean by "potential"?

    The USSR had astronauts, Doctors, top level scientists etc etc. Didn't these people not reach their "potential"?

    Or do you just think "achieving potential" means "achieving money in the bank"?
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    (Original post by Mann18)
    Thins haven't started off equal, so how can you now judge people on a level field?
    No one in life has an exact 'level playing field' though. You just have to make the best of what you have. Some people have more than others, well I'm afraid that's tough. People could make it if they wanted to.

    I'm on about people in the UK by the way, obviously if you're born in an African slum then that's slightly different.
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    (Original post by baffled_mathman)
    It's like with everything else, what do you mean by "potential"?

    The USSR had astronauts, Doctors, top level scientists etc etc. Didn't these people not reach their "potential"?

    Or do you just think "achieving potential" means "achieving money in the bank"?
    Potential means different things to different people. I think it means being sucessful, earning good money, achieving happiness etc.

    Yes it did but were they fairly paid? No. Tell me, what would be the point in going to university to become a doctor if I was to get the same pay as a barmaid? I might as well just be a barmaid if I'm not going to get paid in relation to my social value.

    To some extent, potential is about money. Like I said above, many people wouldn't do harder, taxing jobs if they didn't recieve a higher wage for it. Whether you like it or not, money talks.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    No one in life has an exact 'level playing field' though. You just have to make the best of what you have. Some people have more than others, well I'm afraid that's tough. People could make it if they wanted to.

    I'm on about people in the UK by the way, obviously if you're born in an African slum then that's slightly different.
    I reject that wholly.

    I know it would be hard to get the exact same playing field, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about some people in the UK being given an incredible start, with others pretty much resigned to working minimum wage until they die from the day they're born.

    Where you're born in the UK will have a massive impact too.
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    BREAKING NEWS: People who work hard reap rewards.
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    (Original post by baffled_mathman)
    Rather proves what I said about greed being the cause of capitalism.
    Oh I see. Wanting to better myself is a bad thing? Wanting to be the best, and be rewarded for that is a bad thing? Rather proves my point about Communism. Instead of rewarding those that excell it brings everyone down to a common level, the lowest common denominator in order that some people not feel left out. It's what you do with children, not adults.

    (Original post by Mann18)
    Except, if the people on £5.95 didn't do their jobs, the people on £X would almost certainly die, they certainly would not get the amount they do. If the shelf stockers at Tesco don't stack the shelves, people can't buy the food, so the CEO doesn't get any money.

    Also, your point about working hard enough to get into the top % is naive. Today, someone born into a rich family is tens of times more likely to be rich/"successful" than someone born into a poor family.

    Always sort of makes me laugh when I hear people say things like "look at those chavs over there" when I can pretty much guarantee had they been born into the family those people were, they'd be the exact same as them.

    I'm not saying it never happens obviously, just that it's unlikely.
    Of course. But that's the nature of infrastructure. Equally, without the CEO there would be no distribution network, no global chain with goods from all over the world, allowing a succsesful buisiness to employ those people. So without the minimum wage workers, the top echelons would have nothing. But the same is true the other way round. Something which people convieniently forget all the time. As for their pay gap, it's reflective of the work they do, the exclusivity of the field, experience and so on.

    And I know people that are chavvy scum with exactly the same background as me. You can't use it as an excuse. The fact is they are scum. It's not their background, it's them. And yes, of course I realise rich kids have more oppurtunities than poor kids. But poor kids are provided for, I know working class people studying at Russel Group universities, as I'm sure everyone on here does. It's about hard work. And you shouldn't resent someone with rich parents who has it easier, their parents worked hard, succeeded and now they, aswell as their parents can reap the rewards. Instead of resenting them, ask yourself why your parents didn't succeed? Obviously I'm not saying you personally. But I do know some people, who dislike certain people because they have life easy because their parents made it from working to middle class in a generation. But I look at their parents, and they were the kind of people happy to stay in hourly paid work their entire life. And there's nothing wrong with that, but don't blame the kid with hard working parents for having a little more.
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    (Original post by Mann18)
    I reject that wholly.

    I know it would be hard to get the exact same playing field, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about some people in the UK being given an incredible start, with others pretty much resigned to working minimum wage until they die from the day they're born.

    Where you're born in the UK will have a massive impact too.
    You see, I wouldn't say anyone is resigned to working minimum wage unless that's all their capable of due to academic ability, attitude etc. Even if you're born in the poorest area of the poorest city in the UK, you have an NHS, libraries, free education, welfare benefits...there is really no excuse. If you can't afford books, go and rent one from a library. Use the school computers if you don't have one at home. Realise you're poor and you want to get out of it, so work hard at the state provided schools. It's really not that difficult.

    However instead, people choose to be vile chavvy individuals who are no use to society. And it's entirely their choice to be so...if they want to waste their schooling by bullying people and skipping class fine, just don't whine when I'm on a six figure salary and you're not. (Not you personally lol) They had a choice.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    Comments like this make me laugh, because let's face it, everyone is 'greedy' and has self interests at heart.
    People like you make me laugh. Didn't you read my first post which said this?

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    How many 'marxists' or socialists here would refuse a six figure salary? How many would be happy to give 80% of their annual income to charity? Or pay three times more for goods because they could afford to? I highly doubt many would.
    Many do, I for one live on much less than I might have done. I have no desire to buy a Ferrari or live in a mansion, just a basic car and roof over my head. Although a Ferrari and mansion would attract better women, their gold-digging instincts are another driving force of capitalism; men chase money to keep themselves in sex.

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    When it comes down to it, everyone wants to excell. It's human nature, and in fact it's animal nature too. Look in the animal kingdom; you have those on top and those on the bottom.
    "Excel" and "money" are NOT the same thing. And not everyone wants to "excel" either.
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    (Original post by baffled_mathman)
    People like you make me laugh. Didn't you read my first post which said this?



    Many do, I for one live on much less than I might have done. I have no desire to buy a Ferrari or live in a mansion, just a basic car and roof over my head. Although a Ferrari and mansion would attract better women, their gold-digging instincts are another driving force of capitalism; men chase money to keep themselves in sex.
    Props to you for not being hypocritical then. My point still stands that the majority don't think like that.



    "Excel" and "money" are NOT the same thing. And not everyone wants to "excel" either.
    No but they're connected. If people don't want to excell then they shouldn't moan about being poor.
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    Anyone with access to a computer and hence the ability to post and read TSR will be in that top 10%, so stop moaning people
    • Thread Starter
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    (Original post by FatboyGinger)
    Anyone with access to a computer and hence the ability to post and read TSR will be in that top 10%, so stop moaning people
    You just posted on this thread. In other words: FAIL ON YOUR OWN COMMENT :yy:
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    In most cases, the rich are rich because they have contributed something to society. I see no reason why individuals shouldn't be rewarded as most of their ideas benefit everyone.
    There is no stopping your average working class man from havinga moment of genius and making millions off of it is there? (Speaking about democratic countries here :P)
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    (Original post by darknessbehold)
    Because 49% have to put up with the person 51% voted in. Basically means a big F*** you to the 49% who didn't vote for the winner.
    thats democracy by definition

    and the reason for the inbalance is largely due to third world countries, nothing to do with capitalism really, just them not being as developed, and no westerners didnt cause this, Africans still lived in simple huts and tribes when we first interacted with them, and at that point we had cars and ships and huge manafacturing industry
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    (Original post by Democracy)

    Well cooperatives have been put into practice, perhaps not in this country, but they have been implemented succesfully in Spain.
    John Lewis is a private cooperative
    The Co-op is a type of cooperative
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    You see, I wouldn't say anyone is resigned to working minimum wage unless that's all their capable of due to academic ability, attitude etc. Even if you're born in the poorest area of the poorest city in the UK, you have an NHS, libraries, free education, welfare benefits...there is really no excuse. If you can't afford books, go and rent one from a library. Use the school computers if you don't have one at home. Realise you're poor and you want to get out of it, so work hard at the state provided schools. It's really not that difficult.

    However instead, people choose to be vile chavvy individuals who are no use to society. And it's entirely their choice to be so...if they want to waste their schooling by bullying people and skipping class fine, just don't whine when I'm on a six figure salary and you're not. (Not you personally lol) They had a choice.
    First off the bat, libraries? Pretty sure your lot is doing away with them.

    And I understand your argument, but for many, the sheer amount of things one has to overcome to attain a better life means the task becomes insurmountable.
    Also, read what I said about chavs before, and I'd be interested to know how easy you think it would be to get a £100,000+ job coming from any background.

    And although I appreciate you saying not me personally, you can't really know if I'm a "chav" or not.
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    (Original post by SFsucks)
    John Lewis is a private cooperative
    The Co-op is a type of cooperative
    Yes, but they're different in nature to the one in Spain. I doubt anyone would describe John Lewis as a socialist venture.

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Bus...15747835?f=rss

    For a start John Lewis still retains a classical management heirarchy which isn't found in socialist cooperatives and worker's councils.
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    (Original post by baffled_mathman)
    It's like with everything else, what do you mean by "potential"?

    The USSR had astronauts, Doctors, top level scientists etc etc. Didn't these people not reach their "potential"?

    Or do you just think "achieving potential" means "achieving money in the bank"?
    These people were "more equal" than others though
    USSR treated different people unequally, they valued a scientist much more highly than a farmer, and what they recieved reflected this.
    why peeps negging for a fact? the USSR was not a true communist country, the majority of the wealth was distributed amongst the top of society

    kinda like me neggin someone for saying the world is round
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    Yes, but they're different in nature to the one in Spain. I doubt anyone would describe John Lewis as a socialist venture.

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Bus...15747835?f=rss

    For a start John Lewis still retains a classical management heirarchy which isn't found in socialist cooperatives and worker's councils.
    I still wouldn't call John Lewis a capitalist system seeing that the share holders are the workers of the company and so its like getting the fruits of your labour.
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    (Original post by Mann18)
    First off the bat, libraries? Pretty sure your lot is doing away with them.
    I'm pretty sure that's only if there are two or more in the vacinity.

    And I understand your argument, but for many, the sheer amount of things one has to overcome to attain a better life means the task becomes insurmountable.
    But not impossible. The thing is, you don't know how hard a richer child might have it either. Yes they have advantages in the monetary side. But say that child was in and out of hospital for the first few years of it's life, suffered bullying at school causing self esteem problems etc, then they would have issues to overcome too. It goes back to my point about you cannot have a level playing field. Money is only one advantage, there are plenty of others.

    Also, read what I said about chavs before, and I'd be interested to know how easy you think it would be to get a £100,000+ job coming from any background.
    Well it does depend on what sort of person you are lol. No one wants a chav as a top doctor, but a hardworking, intelligent sincere man who had a poor background to start with? There isn't an issue.

    You mean where you said that if I'd had a difficult life I might be the same as chavs or something? I really don't think so, simply because I have had a difficult life (not financially but through other ways) and I didn't decide to take it out on the general public. I decided that I'd work twice as hard to compensate for it.

    And although I appreciate you saying not me personally, you can't really know if I'm a "chav" or not.
    You type in a readable manner, thus, I would conclude you aren't very chavvy.
 
 
 
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