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What do you think should be done about disruptive students in lessons? watch

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    (Original post by PendulumBoB)
    1. If someone is horrible to me it does not give me to right to be horrible to others, it's very simple. Your focus is based on giving the attention to one troublesome child at the expense of many mine is the other way round

    2. We agree here

    3. Why should they recieve one on one tuition if they are removed from class, that's just incentivising bad behaviour

    4. Strip back worker protection and send the little buggers into the cotton mills-But really education in it's current state does little to prepare people for the menial jobs which most people end up doing anyway, so only have it for those likley to do well
    1. I didn't say it gives them the right... again, you don't seem to understand the psychological concept. Often if children are abused, they learn that it's OK from their parents and so replicate that. It's a psychological thing that isn't rectified simply by teachers shouting at them and then being expelled.

    2. -

    3. I said nothing about one to one tuition. I meant helped with their issues and helped to behave... Not getting one to one lessons.

    4. Just no.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    1. I didn't say it gives them the right... again, you don't seem to understand the psychological concept. Often if children are abused, they learn that it's OK from their parents and so replicate that. It's a psychological thing that isn't rectified simply by teachers shouting at them and then being expelled.

    2. -

    3. I said nothing about one to one tuition. I meant helped with their issues and helped to behave... Not getting one to one lessons.

    4. Just no.
    Of course I understand the psychological concept; but I also realise that I live in a country where schools have a limited budget and if sacrificing one little s***'s education allows the rest of the class to learn then so be it. We really shouldn't fork out for extra members of staff to supervise(Or help the issues of as you put it) unruly children who cannot regulate their behaviour like the rest of the class. Help to behave means that school is no longer a place of education but becomes almost like a parent; which is not what school should be about.
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    (Original post by PendulumBoB)
    Of course I understand the psychological concept; but I also realise that I live in a country where schools have a limited budget and if sacrificing one little s***'s education allows the rest of the class to learn then so be it. We really shouldn't fork out for extra members of staff to supervise(Or help the issues of as you put it) unruly children who cannot regulate their behaviour like the rest of the class. Help to behave means that school is no longer a place of education but becomes almost like a parent; which is not what school should be about.
    But you must also know that it's not just "one little ****". There tends to be quite a few of them, and helping as many of them as possible become better people is beneficial to our entire society and economy.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    But you must also know that it's not just "one little ****". There tends to be quite a few of them, and helping as many of them as possible become better people is beneficial to our entire society and economy.
    It is a minority which cause the majority of the problems; and when the minority are causing the problem, favouring the majority here really is a no brainer. Please explain how directing loads of resources to help a few people who are unlikely to benefit society greatly anyway is good for the economy.
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    (Original post by PendulumBoB)
    It is a minority which cause the majority of the problems; and when the minority are causing the problem, favouring the majority here really is a no brainer. Please explain how directing loads of resources to help a few people who are unlikely to benefit society greatly anyway is good for the economy.
    Because actually, they do tend to benefit society and go on to become decent adults when they are helped. It's not their fault that their upbringing was ****... If a school can help them without ruining the other children's education (which they can, and do) then that seems most beneficial to both the individual and to society as a whole.
    "A few" less kids destined to be on benefits.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    3. I've already said how they won't be disrupting the other 29 people in the class. Clearly you haven't been reading. They should be removed from class, and then helped.
    Disruption outside of lessons?

    4. Having less people able to go into employment means our economy would be ****ed, our country would be absolute ****... That's why they MADE education compulsory. It made the country a hell of a lot better.
    :rofl:

    What's the difference between a 14 year old being expelled with no qualifications and a 16 year old being expelled with no qualifications?
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Because actually, they do tend to benefit society and go on to become decent adults when they are helped. It's not their fault that their upbringing was ****... If a school can help them without ruining the other children's education (which they can, and do) then that seems most beneficial to both the individual and to society as a whole.
    "A few" less kids destined to be on benefits.
    Your posts are based on speculation and assumptions that people who are bad can turn out to be good and that the extra money spent correcting these people is outweighed by the additional economic benefit they provide when they grow up.
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    (Original post by PendulumBoB)
    Of course I understand the psychological concept; but I also realise that I live in a country where schools have a limited budget and if sacrificing one little s***'s education allows the rest of the class to learn then so be it. We really shouldn't fork out for extra members of staff to supervise(Or help the issues of as you put it) unruly children who cannot regulate their behaviour like the rest of the class. Help to behave means that school is no longer a place of education but becomes almost like a parent; which is not what school should be about.
    This! There isn't an infinite amount of money to spend on ******* kids who can't shut up.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Because actually, they do tend to benefit society and go on to become decent adults when they are helped. It's not their fault that their upbringing was ****... If a school can help them without ruining the other children's education (which they can, and do) then that seems most beneficial to both the individual and to society as a whole.
    "A few" less kids destined to be on benefits.
    How insulting to people who have **** backgrounds yet able to focus, pay attention and do well.
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    It's good to see some reason has returned to the thread, welcome back.
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    at my school, my math teacher tormented one of them for aages untill they gave up.
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    (Original post by im so academic)
    Disruption outside of lessons?



    :rofl:

    What's the difference between a 14 year old being expelled with no qualifications and a 16 year old being expelled with no qualifications?
    The difference is that with a little decent dicipline and encouragement that 14 year old could do stop being a ****, do their GCSEs well, and actually contribute to society.


    (Original post by PendulumBoB)
    Your posts are based on speculation and assumptions that people who are bad can turn out to be good and that the extra money spent correcting these people is outweighed by the additional economic benefit they provide when they grow up.
    It's not based on assumptions, it's based on what currently happens in most schools. I saw many misbehaving children mature and change with a little encouragement, and so calm down and make it into 6th form. There are those who didn't, who were expelled or alike, and I already said I agree with this.

    The point is you have to give these kids a CHANCE to grow up and become decent people, because a lot of them will. Having a child who is just a little noisy and just kicking them out creates another ignorant fool on benefits forever; helping that child move on and mature creates a decent member of society who will contribute in their taxes.


    (Original post by im so academic)
    How insulting to people who have **** backgrounds yet able to focus, pay attention and do well.
    As I've already said, and you clearly ignored... It depends on the nature of that **** background, and the individual who is a victim on how they react.
    See my example on how a child who is beaten can react differently... It's psychological, not a concious choice. But with help, they can over-come it, and actually benefit society.
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    (Original post by SpunkyVanDros)
    at my school, my math teacher tormented one of them for aages untill they gave up.
    Sounds Hilarious
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    The difference is that with a little decent dicipline and encouragement that 14 year old could do stop being a ****, do their GCSEs well, and actually contribute to society.
    Discipline should've started ages ago.

    Oh and don't patronise 14 year olds. I know how 14 year olds act - literally. "A little decent discipline and encouragement" will not change their attitudes.

    If you disagree with that, you are denying the reality.

    It's not based on assumptions, it's based on what currently happens in most schools. I saw many misbehaving children mature and change with a little encouragement, and so calm down and make it into 6th form. There are those who didn't, who were expelled or alike, and I already said I agree with this.
    Yes but they would've hindered the educational experience for many others in the process.

    The point is you have to give these kids a CHANCE to grow up and become decent people, because a lot of them will. Having a child who is just a little noisy and just kicking them out creates another ignorant fool on benefits forever; helping that child move on and mature creates a decent member of society who will contribute in their taxes.
    A chance? Honey, these children have been given dozens of chances to act up.

    As I've already said, and you clearly ignored... It depends on the nature of that **** background, and the individual who is a victim on how they react.
    See my example on how a child who is beaten can react differently... It's psychological, not a concious choice. But with help, they can over-come it, and actually benefit society.
    OK, give me figures then:

    How much does this "help" cost?
    How will it be funded?
    Who exactly will "help"?
    How will it be implemented into every school?
    What schemes are you proposing?
    How much will it cost the taxpayer?
    Will the taxes from these people make up more than what was spent in them?
    How much will this help cost? (Emphasised).
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    (Original post by im so academic)
    Discipline should've started ages ago.

    Oh and don't patronise 14 year olds. I know how 14 year olds act - literally. "A little decent discipline and encouragement" will not change their attitudes.

    If you disagree with that, you are denying the reality.



    Yes but they would've hindered the educational experience for many others in the process.



    A chance? Honey, these children have been given dozens of chances to act up.



    OK, give me figures then:

    How much does this "help" cost?
    How will it be funded?
    Who exactly will "help"?
    How will it be implemented into every school?
    What schemes are you proposing?
    How much will it cost the taxpayer?
    Will the taxes from these people make up more than what was spent in them?
    How much will this help cost? (Emphasised).
    Oh my god, you are impossible. You ignore EVERYTHING I SAY!!!
    I'm not patronising 14 year olds. If you think that every 14 year old is the same, YOU are deluded. Many DO change with the right kind of dicipline and encouragment.

    They WON'T have hindered many people's educations in the process, as I've explained. They will be removed when they begin... Stop ignoring what I say.

    I'm not giving figures. I'm talking about things that are mostly already in place, that already happen, and often already work.
    Look it up yourself. If you don't understand the general benefit to the economy and country, then I give up.
    I seriously don't like speaking with you because you ignore everything I type...
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    It's not based on assumptions, it's based on what currently happens in most schools. I saw many misbehaving children mature and change with a little encouragement, and so calm down and make it into 6th form. There are those who didn't, who were expelled or alike, and I already said I agree with this.
    It is based on assumptions though, as you have no evidence to suggest that it makes financial sense to spend even more money on a pupil, just to get him/her to behave appropriately, just to potentially keep him/her off benefits (Perhaps no benefits to those who wasted their privelege of a state funded education by messing around in class is the answer).

    I see each child who goes to school as an investment by the state the ones who do well, are good investments and ones who behave badly are poor investments and so should not be further invested in, it's simple really.
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    (Original post by PendulumBoB)
    Sounds Hilarious
    it was.. they would say something and she would literally ignore them until they said something useful.

    needless to say our math class has some of the highest grades in our school and liverpool.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Oh my god, you are impossible. You ignore EVERYTHING I SAY!!!
    I'm not patronising 14 year olds. If you think that every 14 year old is the same, YOU are deluded. Many DO change with the right kind of dicipline and encouragment.
    Evidence? (No bull**** anecdotes please).

    They WON'T have hindered many people's educations in the process, as I've explained. They will be removed when they begin... Stop ignoring what I say.
    So you're telling me my education hasn't been hindered?

    I'm not giving figures. I'm talking about things that are mostly already in place, that already happen, and often already work.
    Look it up yourself. If you don't understand the general benefit to the economy and country, then I give up.
    I seriously don't like speaking with you because you ignore everything I type...
    How am I supposed to look them up if I don't know what "things" are already in place?

    Excuse me, if you're such a staunch defender of these bull**** schemes - YOU give me the figures.

    Imo, this is the place for the motion "bring back the cane". Cheap, cost-effective and instils physical discipline for those who are too stupid to follow simple rules.
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    (Original post by PendulumBoB)
    It is based on assumptions though, as you have no evidence to suggest that it makes financial sense to spend even more money on a pupil, just to get him/her to behave appropriately, just to potentially keep him/her off benefits (Perhaps no benefits to those who wasted their privelege of a state funded education by messing around in class is the answer).

    I see each child who goes to school as an investment by the state the ones who do well, are good investments and ones who behave badly are poor investments and so should not be further invested in, it's simple really.
    It's not assumptions, I'm not JUST talking about financial sense anyway, I'm talking about the benefits to society as a whole.
    Chaning them in the correct way means there will be one less ignorant ******* out on the streets.. Which amounts to a lot all together.

    People moan about the number of "chavs" and people alike... Often it's not being brought up right, and not being helped from that situation that made them that way. I see it as a pretty good investment to make our country better to be honest... Helping each individual reach their potential if they bother to change.

    But I think we're going to continue to disagree.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Oh my god, you are impossible. You ignore EVERYTHING I SAY!!!
    I'm not patronising 14 year olds. If you think that every 14 year old is the same, YOU are deluded. Many DO change with the right kind of dicipline and encouragment.

    They WON'T have hindered many people's educations in the process, as I've explained. They will be removed when they begin... Stop ignoring what I say.

    I'm not giving figures. I'm talking about things that are mostly already in place, that already happen, and often already work.
    Look it up yourself. If you don't understand the general benefit to the economy and country, then I give up.
    I seriously don't like speaking with you because you ignore everything I type...
    If you have no evidence that it makes economic sense then your argument has no basis. You say that the students do change with right kind of help but I don't see it, the ones who behaved badly when they were younger (Got into fights etc) were the ones dealing drugs or breaking property when they are older. At my school the badly behaved ones had so many allowances made for them, they were temporarily removed from class, but their behaviour got worse; do you not see that the gains the be made from attempting to turn these people into productive citizens is outweighed by the cost and effort to get them to that stage which would be better spend elsewhere.
 
 
 
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