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What do you think should be done about disruptive students in lessons? Watch

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    (Original post by PendulumBoB)
    If you have no evidence that it makes economic sense then your argument has no basis. You say that the students do change with right kind of help but I don't see it, the ones who behaved badly when they were younger (Got into fights etc) were the ones dealing drugs or breaking property when they are older. At my school the badly behaved ones had so many allowances made for them, they were temporarily removed from class, but their behaviour got worse; do you not see that the gains the be made from attempting to turn these people into productive citizens is outweighed by the cost and effort to get them to that stage which would be better spend elsewhere.
    This! Where is the evidence there will be any economic benefit if we "help" these children.

    Schools are not supposed to be Jesus, they're supposed to teach.
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    (Original post by im so academic)
    Evidence? (No bull**** anecdotes please).



    So you're telling me my education hasn't been hindered?



    How am I supposed to look them up if I don't know what "things" are already in place?

    Excuse me, if you're such a staunch defender of these bull**** schemes - YOU give me the figures.

    Imo, this is the place for the motion "bring back the cane". Cheap, cost-effective and instils physical discipline for those who are too stupid to follow simple rules.
    I'm not here to give you evidence of children changing, that sort of statistics don't exist... I'm speaking from personal experience...
    As you seem to be "are you telling me my education hasn't been hindered?" - 1. Maybe your school didn't do it right at all, and were ****? 2. Aren't you at Oxbridge? Didn't seem to hinder you much.

    Look up what the current policies are... Not difficult. I can't be bothered to sit here explaining everything to you when you don't listen anyway.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    It's not assumptions, I'm not JUST talking about financial sense anyway, I'm talking about the benefits to society as a whole.
    Chaning them in the correct way means there will be one less ignorant ******* out on the streets.. Which amounts to a lot all together.

    People moan about the number of "chavs" and people alike... Often it's not being brought up right, and not being helped from that situation that made them that way. I see it as a pretty good investment to make our country better to be honest... Helping each individual reach their potential if they bother to change.

    But I think we're going to continue to disagree.
    So you think teaching a chav a bit of PSE is going to turn him into nice chap? If a chav breaks the law instead of blaming society for failing him, put him in a chain gang until he's learned his lesson.

    Interestingly my old form tutor ran a reward system for good behaviour (Turning up on time or correct uniform I can't remember) and this failed, but he replaced the system with a punishment system for bad behaviour, this worked far quicker. Perhaps you should bear this in mind when you form your little child psychology based Utopia
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    I'm not here to give you evidence of children changing, that sort of statistics don't exist... I'm speaking from personal experience...
    As you seem to be "are you telling me my education hasn't been hindered?" - 1. Maybe your school didn't do it right at all, and were ****? 2. Aren't you at Oxbridge? Didn't seem to hinder you much.

    Look up what the current policies are... Not difficult. I can't be bothered to sit here explaining everything to you when you don't listen anyway.
    Personal experience does not equate evidence that what you are saying is correct.

    From my personal experience, you are wrong.

    So until you give me some hardcore data, I will not believe you.

    Yes, I have looked up the current policies. Don't ****ing patronise me, I replied back with a link yesterday with the Coalition reforms.

    To reiterate, they're making exclusions/expulsions easier - the system has got out of hand that it HAS to resort to these measures.

    Don't bother with the ad hom comments "you don't listen" - it does not negate me arguments and just shows you cannot justify your own opinions.
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    (Original post by PendulumBoB)
    If you have no evidence that it makes economic sense then your argument has no basis. You say that the students do change with right kind of help but I don't see it, the ones who behaved badly when they were younger (Got into fights etc) were the ones dealing drugs or breaking property when they are older. At my school the badly behaved ones had so many allowances made for them, they were temporarily removed from class, but their behaviour got worse; do you not see that the gains the be made from attempting to turn these people into productive citizens is outweighed by the cost and effort to get them to that stage which would be better spend elsewhere.
    Well clearly we have differnet experiences. I saw a lot of children mature and change, so it seemed very beneficial.
    My argument DOES have basis... Since when do you get to define what makes my argument viable? I'm not talking simply about economics, I'm talking about social benefits to society too, and also what is "right"... Clearly we have completely different views on things, because I don't see money as the ONLY reason to do something.
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    (Original post by im so academic)
    physical discipline for those who are too stupid to follow simple rules.
    You truly are a goddess amongst women-sorry if that's too far
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    Being Locked inside a closet for 5 minutes with Gary Glitter?
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    (Original post by UpsidedownLandMan)
    My English teacher used to throw things at them (pens, WB markers etc). Worked fairly well, i'd say...
    Yeah, my geography teacher used to throw books at us. They hurt :sad:
    Worked though!
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Well clearly we have differnet experiences. I saw a lot of children mature and change, so it seemed very beneficial.
    My argument DOES have basis... Since when do you get to define what makes my argument viable? I'm not talking simply about economics, I'm talking about social benefits to society too, and also what is "right"... Clearly we have completely different views on things, because I don't see money as the ONLY reason to do something.
    You talk about social benefits-enlighten me, what do you mean by social benefits?
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    (Original post by PendulumBoB)
    So you think teaching a chav a bit of PSE is going to turn him into nice chap? If a chav breaks the law instead of blaming society for failing him, put him in a chain gang until he's learned his lesson.

    Interestingly my old form tutor ran a reward system for good behaviour (Turning up on time or correct uniform I can't remember) and this failed, but he replaced the system with a punishment system for bad behaviour, this worked far quicker. Perhaps you should bear this in mind when you form your little child psychology based Utopia
    Don't insult me. I've already said I support dicipline and punishment, just not being expelled with NO chance to reform how you act. Your point actually proves mine... Put a bit of punishment in there and THEN guide them the right way and it'll work wonders with changing their ways.


    (Original post by im so academic)
    Personal experience does not equate evidence that what you are saying is correct.

    From my personal experience, you are wrong.

    So until you give me some hardcore data, I will not believe you.

    Yes, I have looked up the current policies. Don't ****ing patronise me, I replied back with a link yesterday with the Coalition reforms.

    To reiterate, they're making exclusions/expulsions easier - the system has got out of hand that it HAS to resort to these measures.

    Don't bother with the ad hom comments "you don't listen" - it does not negate me arguments and just shows you cannot justify your own opinions.
    Well the same can be said of you then... I don't believe you either. Glad we sorted that out.

    I say "you don't listen", not to justify my opinions, but because I keep repeating the same thing as you clearly don't read it.
    For example, you repeat "so they should be allowed to destroy other people's education?" When I've clearly said MANY times that no, I don't believe that... They should be removed and punished... But given the chance to get better.

    It doesn't work that you have a slightly naughty 12 year old child, and they stay that way forever... Children mature and grow up into adults, especially if you give them the CHANCE to.
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    (Original post by souldoubt)
    Yeah, my geography teacher used to throw books at us. They hurt :sad:
    Worked though!
    What was the name of this fine gentleman may I inquire?
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Don't insult me. I've already said I support dicipline and punishment, just not being expelled with NO chance to reform how you act. Your point actually proves mine... Put a bit of punishment in there and THEN guide them the right way and it'll work wonders with changing their ways.




    Well the same can be said of you then... I don't believe you either. Glad we sorted that out.

    I say "you don't listen", not to justify my opinions, but because I keep repeating the same thing as you clearly don't read it.
    For example, you repeat "so they should be allowed to destroy other people's education?" When I've clearly said MANY times that no, I don't believe that... They should be removed and punished... But given the chance to get better.

    It doesn't work that you have a slightly naughty 12 year old child, and they stay that way forever... Children mature and grow up into adults, especially if you give them the CHANCE to.
    So you're blaming **** behaviour at the fact that "they are children, they are naive"?

    :sigh:
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    (Original post by PendulumBoB)
    You talk about social benefits-enlighten me, what do you mean by social benefits?
    The benefit of not HAVING all of these chavs, and yobs, and uneducated ignorant pigs living in this country. Actually educating them properlly will stop a lot of children BECOMING this way.
    People become like this because of 1. their uprbringing and 2. their education

    Again, I'm referring to sociology. But I really don't want to explain it much further now.
    Btw, please stop writing to me again when you already have and I'm typing a response... It gets our conversations muddled.
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    They should be tasered.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Well clearly we have differnet experiences. I saw a lot of children mature and change, so it seemed very beneficial.
    My argument DOES have basis... Since when do you get to define what makes my argument viable? I'm not talking simply about economics, I'm talking about social benefits to society too, and also what is right... Clearly we have completely different views on things, because I don't see money as the ONLY reason to do something.
    Morality is subjective and therefore corrupt, so 'what is right' is not really a viable reason.

    Actually, she is well within her rights to dispute the basis of your argument, since if you have no logical or rational premise, your opinion is not well informed and essentially, you mean nothing. Only if you can convey a sensible, reasoned argument can you actually engage in a debate at any level short of turning to fisticuffs.

    Personal experience requires justification, do you know a sizeable majority of the current makeup of the State sector pupil base? Probably not, therefore statistical evidence is required to back your point, or atleast a reputable study link.

    Money is objective, it is uncorruptable, as soon as you start trying to dictate your OWN morality, you enforce it on others, this is moral dictatorship and goes against the essence of Freedom, you are sacrificing the potential of those who are willing for those who won't.
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    THEY SHOULD DIE!!!
    (sorry its the easter holidays, I'm more mellow and less extreme than usual)
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    The benefit of not HAVING all of these chavs, and yobs, and uneducated ignorant pigs living in this country. Actually educating them properlly will stop a lot of children BECOMING this way.
    People become like this because of 1. their uprbringing and 2. their education

    Again, I'm referring to sociology. But I really don't want to explain it much further now.
    Btw, please stop writing to me again when you already have and I'm typing a response... It gets our conversations muddled.

    I have bolded the problem for you, the problems always start before school, parental mentality tends to have a HUGE impact on the child in question.
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    (Original post by im so academic)
    So you're blaming **** behaviour at the fact that "they are children, they are naive"?

    :sigh:
    That's a pretty simplified version.
    A lot of children ARE naive, and don't really understand the entire consequence of not getting a decent education.
    That is also why they are so vunerable to being manipulated... Why if they are abused at home, they can go either the way of being very quiet and depressed, or violent/loud and aggressive copying their parents. It's up to society to teach them that it's actually wrong (because if they've grown up with it, they won't necessarily understand tha properly), and to both dicipline and educate them into NOT becoming like their parents.

    SOME of them will stay that way, and they should be expelled when this becomes apparent.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    The benefit of not HAVING all of these chavs, and yobs, and uneducated ignorant pigs living in this country. Actually educating them properlly will stop a lot of children BECOMING this way.
    People become like this because of 1. their uprbringing and 2. their education

    Again, I'm referring to sociology. But I really don't want to explain it much further now.
    Btw, please stop writing to me again when you already have and I'm typing a response... It gets our conversations muddled.
    Oh come on! If it were as simple as "to give them help" we wouldn't have this problem.

    My God. Don't blame retarded 15 year olds' behaviour on their upbringing and their education. What about themselves?

    Correlation does not equal causation - I take it would fail Statistics tbh.
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    those who don't want to learn can go play outside whilst chained to 50kg weights so they won't leave the premises.
 
 
 
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