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What do you think should be done about disruptive students in lessons? Watch

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    (Original post by Ocassus)
    Morality is subjective and therefore corrupt, so 'what is right' is not really a viable reason.

    Actually, she is well within her rights to dispute the basis of your argument, since if you have no logical or rational premise, your opinion is not well informed and essentially, you mean nothing. Only if you can convey a sensible, reasoned argument can you actually engage in a debate at any level short of turning to fisticuffs.

    Personal experience requires justification, do you know a sizeable majority of the current makeup of the State sector pupil base? Probably not, therefore statistical evidence is required to back your point, or atleast a reputable study link.

    Money is objective, it is uncorruptable, as soon as you start trying to dictate your OWN morality, you enforce it on others, this is moral dictatorship and goes against the essence of Freedom, you are sacrificing the potential of those who are willing for those who won't.
    I already know that morality is subjective, I spent all of last week debating that on another page.
    I thought that's what we were doing here, discussing our opinions?? There is no clear definite proof that either side of this argument is "right" or "wrong", so we are discussing arguments.
    My opinion IS based on logic, and therefore IS well informed... I've given many different kinds of arguments... From economics, sociology and psychology...
    Lots of differnet reasons that I believe what I do, and I know that will always remain a BELIEF with not evidence to prove it is compeltely true, but the same can be said of their argument too.

    That's what this forum is... Discussing our opinions.


    (Original post by Ocassus)
    I have bolded the problem for you, the problems always start before school, parental mentality tends to have a HUGE impact on the child in question.
    As I said, yes upbringing has a lot to do with it... But children are still impressionable, growing up and maturing... There is still room to help them change from going down the same path their parents did. I've seen it happen, so it can be done.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    My opinion IS based on logic, and therefore IS well informed... I've given many different kinds of arguments... From economics, sociology and psychology...
    It ****ing is not. Where's the evidence? You have not provided no source links. You haven't even given statistical evidence it will save the taxpayers money! :mad:

    As I said, yes upbringing has a lot to do with it... But children are still impressionable, growing up and maturing... There is still room to help them change from going down the same path their parents did. I've seen it happen, so it can be done.
    :facepalm2: I've seen that it can't happen, which negates your point entirely.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    I already know that morality is subjective, I spent all of last week debating that on another page.
    I thought that's what we were doing here, discussing our opinions?? There is no clear definite proof that either side of this argument is "right" or "wrong", so we are discussing arguments.
    My opinion IS based on logic, and therefore IS well informed... I've given many different kinds of arguments... From economics, sociology and psychology...
    Lots of differnet reasons that I believe what I do, and I know that will always remain a BELIEF with not evidence to prove it is compeltely true, but the same can be said of their argument too.

    That's what this forum is... Discussing our opinions.




    As I said, yes upbringing has a lot to do with it... But children are still impressionable, growing up and maturing... There is still room to help them change from going down the same path their parents did. I've seen it happen, so it can be done.
    I suggest you refer to my post a few pages back, relating to the chocie of vocational subjects, as many children simply aren't suited or don't want to do academia, and only need it for the basic reasoning skills.
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    (Original post by im so academic)
    Oh come on! If it were as simple as "to give them help" we wouldn't have this problem.

    My God. Don't blame retarded 15 year olds' behaviour on their upbringing and their education. What about themselves?

    Correlation does not equal causation - I take it would fail Statistics tbh.
    Upbringing and education creates who we are... Our experience define us.
    We can change ourselves and make decisions to a certain extent, but these things have a HUGE impact, especially on children.
    If you don't understand that you need to go read some sociology and psychology books, then come back to me.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    The benefit of not HAVING all of these chavs, and yobs, and uneducated ignorant pigs living in this country. Actually educating them properlly will stop a lot of children BECOMING this way.
    People become like this because of 1. their uprbringing and 2. their education

    Again, I'm referring to sociology. But I really don't want to explain it much further now.
    Btw, please stop writing to me again when you already have and I'm typing a response... It gets our conversations muddled.
    I apologise for the little typing issue

    We have loads of chavs despite the fact that the government spend £9000 per pupil per year up to and including GCSE. What do they need to sit down, shut up and listen to the teacher, a friggin' gold plated excercise book. You are clearly someone who cares about others but there comes a point where you must see that diverting resources from ill-behaved chav-kids to other more deserving causes is a must. You speak of education being the answer to the problem, but many of them quite simply do not want to learn and when they receive kind words encouraging them to behave properly as opposed to some good old fashoned punishment they see this as getting away with bad behaviour. If your therapeutic approach to bad behaviour works why does the UK have such high re-offending rates for ASBOs?
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    (Original post by im so academic)
    It ****ing is not. Where's the evidence? You have not provided no source links. You haven't even given statistical evidence it will save the taxpayers money! :mad:



    :facepalm2: I've seen that it can't happen, which negates your point entirely.
    Because my argument isn't that it will save tax payers money...
    I mentioned how it MAY have economic benefits... The general idea that instead of letting them become people on benefits or drg dealers, they will get decent jobs clearly would be better for our society... But I made no argument that would require figures.

    We clearly have had different experiences, as I've already acknowledged... But that doen't make you more right than I am. We both have seen different things happen, which I guess just shows that there needs to be more solidarity and consistancy between areas and schools.
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    If a person is adamant they don't want to learn, then I don't think we should be shoving education down their throats. The trouble is that society doesn't provide any alternatives. You have to go to school - by law- and even if you don't, what are you going to do? There's hardly any apprenticeships, and there's no way to actually pursue what interests you.

    I don’t think the answer is ‘screw them’. Until we can provide alternate pathways for kids, we can’t blame them for not wanting to conform.
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Upbringing and education creates who we are... Our experience define us.
    If that's so true, how come people with the SAME upbringing and education can go to Oxbridge and some go on the dole?

    We can change ourselves and make decisions to a certain extent, but these things have a HUGE impact, especially on children.
    Children choose to mess about because they know they can, and they know they can get away with it.

    If you don't understand that you need to go read some sociology and psychology books, then come back to me.
    Believe me, I have. I don't know what **** you are talking about really. What psychologists/sociologists' work have you been reading? Taking sympathy to Marxist sociological views I see?

    Again, where's the statistical evidence that "giving them help" will benefit the taxpayer? Note the words: statistical evidence.
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    (Original post by PendulumBoB)
    What was the name of this fine gentleman may I inquire?
    Mr. Dix
    pffffff :teehee:
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    (Original post by PendulumBoB)
    I apologise for the little typing issue

    We have loads of chavs despite the fact that the government spend £9000 per pupil per year up to and including GCSE. What do they need to sit down, shut up and listen to the teacher, a friggin' gold plated excercise book. You are clearly someone who cares about others but there comes a point where you must see that diverting resources from ill-behaved chav-kids to other more deserving causes is a must. You speak of education being the answer to the problem, but many of them quite simply do not want to learn and when they receive kind words encouraging them to behave properly as opposed to some good old fashoned punishment they see this as getting away with bad behaviour. If your therapeutic approach to bad behaviour works why does the UK have such high re-offending rates for ASBOs?
    Yes, and I've already agreed that if it's adomant that the child will not change, then we must give up and kick them out. I'm simply arguing that this shouldn't be an IMMEDIATE thing when they have room and potential to get better.
    We should try before giving up, because this benefits us all in the long run. There will always be SOME that it doesn't work with, but that doesn't mean any child who ever mis-behaves should just be expelled. Children do this, it's how they learn and mature. I'm all for dicipline.
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    Lock them in stocks out on the sports field.
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    (Original post by im so academic)
    If that's so true, how come people with the SAME upbringing and education can go to Oxbridge and some go on the dole?



    Children choose to mess about because they know they can, and they know they can get away with it.



    Believe me, I have. I don't know what **** you are talking about really. What psychologists/sociologists' work have you been reading? Taking sympathy to Marxist sociological views I see?

    Again, where's the statistical evidence that "giving them help" will benefit the taxpayer? Note the words: statistical evidence.

    (Original post by im so academic)
    If that's so true, how come people with the SAME upbringing and education can go to Oxbridge and some go on the dole?



    Children choose to mess about because they know they can, and they know they can get away with it.



    Believe me, I have. I don't know what **** you are talking about really. What psychologists/sociologists' work have you been reading? Taking sympathy to Marxist sociological views I see?

    Again, where's the statistical evidence that "giving them help" will benefit the taxpayer? Note the words: statistical evidence.
    As I've explained... People with the same upbringing and education react differently. We all have different personalities, and so react differently to a range of experiences. It's still a psychological reaction that they can't help.
    But how do you know you have the same upbringing? You don't know everything about other people's private lives.

    again... I'm not giving statistical evidence because my argument isn't based on that.
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    (Original post by souldoubt)
    Mr. Dix
    pffffff :teehee:
    How unfortunate

    We had a geography teacher who was did the same, alas they are not the same person.
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    Are we being serious here?

    Imagine how dull lessons would be if we didn't have the kids that pissed off the teacher all the time. Yes, lessons are for learning, but it would be incredibly boring for everyone if all of the students sat there quietly and did as they were told for the whole lesson.

    They put everyone in sets from year 10 anyway, so if you really want to learn you should end up in the top set, while the disrupters end up in bottom set. So what's the problem?
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    (Original post by PendulumBoB)
    How unfortunate

    We had a geography teacher who was did the same, alas they are not the same person.
    Maybe it's a geo teacher thing :dontknow: My other did the same
    He was called Mr. Wilcox
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    let my mum be in charge of punishments lol
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Yes, and I've already agreed that if it's adomant that the child will not change, then we must give up and kick them out. I'm simply arguing that this shouldn't be an IMMEDIATE thing when they have room and potential to get better.
    We should try before giving up, because this benefits us all in the long run. There will always be SOME that it doesn't work with, but that doesn't mean any child who ever mis-behaves should just be expelled. Children do this, it's how they learn and mature. I'm all for dicipline.
    Children are given too many chances these days. It is hard to expel a pupil and schools are reluctant to do so. Otherwise why would the Coalition make it easier to do so?
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    As I've explained... People with the same upbringing and education react differently. We all have different personalities, and so react differently to a range of experiences. It's still a psychological reaction that they can't help.
    But how do you know you have the same upbringing? You don't know everything about other people's private lives.
    You said one's upbringing and education "define us".

    I could easily say two people - same background - one goes to Oxbridge, one goes on the dole.

    again... I'm not giving statistical evidence because my argument isn't based on that.
    Thus your argument is a worthless piece of tat.
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    (Original post by im so academic)
    Children are given too many chances these days. It is hard to expel a pupil and schools are reluctant to do so. Otherwise why would the Coalition make it easier to do so?
    Possibly they are given too many chances, but that doesn't mean they should be given no chances at all.

    I've already explained why two people with the same upbringing and education can react differently. I don't need to repeat it.

    No, my argument isn't. We are both arguing our opinions, and nothing more. Yours isn't any more worthy than my own.
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    Learning to cope with your peers is an important life skill. There will be plenty of similar people in the work place later in life.
 
 
 
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