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Tuition fees debate on the Daily Poltics - BBC Two watch

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    Listen to this debate.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12922490

    Should a university such as Essex be able to charge £9000?




    I love it when Andrew Neill asked the V.C. of Essex University why he should charge £9000 which would make them as expensive as top universities such as Oxbrdige, LSE and UCL!!! I also love it when he asks why should a student going to UWE go be charged the same as students who go to Oxbridge?
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    They're for profit now, most of them will try and charge 9k, even if the average cost per student was 6k
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    "its all the universities fault" - well what did you expect Mr Lib Dem?

    (Original post by chrislpp)
    They're for profit now, most of them will try and charge 9k, even if the average cost per student was 6k
    I used to be of this opinion, but another thread the other day (about Leeds Met) largely changed my mind.

    Even the lesser known unis get a fair slice of government funding which they are now losing most of and crucially may well lose even more of in the future. I don't doubt that their courses may require less than £9,000 on average, but looking at the figures from Leeds met they do spend around that much per student on facilities etc and in the context of a real possibility of further government cuts (which the white paper has yet to spell out) these institutions need to guarantee their financial security.

    I think it costs more to run a university than people realize, and the extent of the cuts is deep and may well be even deeper (perhaps even total).

    EDIT: The financial statement for Leeds Met is here if you want to see it. Note how their costs exceed tuition fee income by almost 3.5x - obv that was not their only source of income but the danger is that it soon will be!
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    (Original post by T. Hereford)
    Listen to this debate.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12922490
    Should a university such as Essex be able to charge £9000?
    I love it when Andrew Neill asked the V.C. of Essex University why he should charge £9000 which would make them as expensive as top universities such as Oxbrdige, LSE and UCL!!! I also love it when he asks why should a student going to UWE go be charged the same as students who go to Oxbridge?
    As the guy said, Oxbridge and the like would charge more, so it is not necessarily that Essex are overcharging, but that Oxbridge are being forced to undercharge. Also, how can the government say "You can charge up to £9k" then complain when universities do just that? If they didn't want them to, then why risk the coalition to let them?

    In fact, you could argue that the 'lesser' unviersities have more right to charge the full amount because they have a far better mix of students' backgrounds than say, Oxbridge (combined), who have at least a third of entrants coming from families rich enough to send their children to an independent school.

    The government has a choice now to either watch each student's debt increase by £18,000 and (wrongfully) blame Labour for the economic mess (the extra money from the increase only kicks in once these students have graduated and are earning £21k, so probably 5 years off), or address the issue again and be humiliated by Labour (wrongfully, as Labour had a hand in introducing the fees and bumping them up to £3k, thus starting the trend of pushing for more and more fees).
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    Essex is a good university, particularly in certain fields. I agree that some universities looking to charge £9000 can't really justify it though.
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    (Original post by T. Hereford)
    I love it when Andrew Neill asked the V.C. of Essex University why he should charge £9000 which would make them as expensive as top universities such as Oxbrdige, LSE and UCL!!!
    Essex isn't a "top" university?

    Awesome. I'm off to Essex then...

    Spoiler:
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    (Original post by chrislpp)
    They're for profit now, most of them will try and charge 9k, even if the average cost per student was 6k
    For profit? :laugh: No.
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    Just because a university is at the top of the league tables doesn't mean it is the most expensive to operate.

    check out Guardians 'spend per student'

    some 9k unis spend nowhere near as other 9k unis.
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    (Original post by River85)
    Essex isn't a "top" university?

    Awesome. I'm off to Essex then...

    Well, each to their own!!!

    See ya, bye!!!!!
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    (Original post by T. Hereford)
    Well, each to their own!!!

    See ya, bye!!!!!
    Why not? It has a better politics department than my own university (one you cream over). I'm sure they also know what the DDA and SENDA is too....but that's another matter.

    So why shouldn't Essex charge £9,000? Andrew Neil was just asking the VC to justify this which I'm sure he's probably capable of doing.
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    (Original post by Hopple)
    As the guy said, Oxbridge and the like would charge more, so it is not necessarily that Essex are overcharging, but that Oxbridge are being forced to undercharge.
    Oxford stated that they only needed 8K to maintain current levels of funding (with the extra 1K being used for increased access porgrammes).

    (Original post by Hopple)
    In fact, you could argue that the 'lesser' unviersities have more right to charge the full amount because they have a far better mix of students' backgrounds than say, Oxbridge (combined), who have at least a third of entrants coming from families rich enough to send their children to an independent school.
    There are much better sources than that, which would give you much more precise statistics and better show your point (as actual figures are close to 40-45%)! Why don't people ever just google 'oxford/cambridge admissions statistics'?
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    Oxford stated that they only needed 8K to maintain current levels of funding (with the extra 1K being used for increased access porgrammes).
    If a university could charge £50k per year without driving away the best students, they would. They can justify any increase by saying it'll increase the standard of lecturing and research, allow for smaller study groups, increase access, provide bursaries etc.

    There are much better sources than that, which would give you much more precise statistics and better show your point (as actual figures are close to 40-45%)! Why don't people ever just google 'oxford/cambridge admissions statistics'?
    I was lazy, and it showed my point

    Also, you didn't source your 40-45%
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    Essex is not a top university but definitely a good one especially on research area. Not really surprised to see it ask for the maximum fees and I expect more universities of similar quality announcing the same.
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    (Original post by cherrycharm)
    Essex is not a top university but definitely a good one especially on research area. Not really surprised to see it ask for the maximum fees and I expect more universities of similar quality announcing the same.
    Yeah, I'd expect almost all universities to charge as much as they can. With so many applicants, not very many universities need to compete price-wise to attract students - I think applicants outnumbered places by 30% last year - and remember that Osborne has cut education spending too.
 
 
 
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