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"Religion causes more bad than good." Opinions? Watch

  • View Poll Results: Does religion cause more bad than good?
    Yes
    54
    58.70%
    No
    20
    21.74%
    The good and bad balance out, religion is just a part of life
    18
    19.57%

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    (Original post by chrislpp)
    religion doesn't kill people; people do.
    ..because of their religious beliefs.
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    (Original post by Persie)
    Religion definitely brings more good than harm. Do people forget that it's the basis of Western civilization?
    Elaborate. Don't you think the church held us back for centuries?
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    I've heard this plenty of times. It is greed, not religion, that causes the majority of violence.
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    (Original post by yokabasha)
    Humans are very logical, it just wouldn't make sense to show compassion to a complete stranger, in many religions you are taught to show genuine compassion, if there was no religion to begin with, where would this idea come from?
    Why is this idea a good thing? Scepticism towards strangers is probably one of the healthiest and instinctive mindsets you can have.
    Strangers asking kids to get into their cars to 'drive them home' is just one example I can think of.
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    (Original post by yokabasha)
    Humans are very logical, it just wouldn't make sense to show compassion to a complete stranger, in many religions you are taught to show genuine compassion, if there was no religion to begin with, where would this idea come from?
    Also, should I be so compassionate to the male stranger, that I should let him rape my daughter?

    Rape My Daughter

    "Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." (Judges 19:24-25)


    Comment

    Judges 19 describe a father who offers his virgin daughter to a drunken mob. When the father says "unto this man do not so vile a thing," he makes clear that sexual abuse should never befall a man (meaning him), yet a woman, even his own flesh and blood, or a concubine belonging to a perfect stranger, can receive punishment from men to do what they wish. This attitude against women still persists to this day and we have the Bible, in large part, to thank for this attitude against women.

    Verse 25 describes the hours long gang rape of the poor concubine. The Bible gives not one hint of passion or concern for the raped girl. Considering that many people believe that every word in the Bible comes from God, it should not surprise anyone why people still use these verses to justify such atrocities.
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    (Original post by yokabasha)
    This is one of the examples where you use common sense mate.

    You're thinking that people shouldn't have compassion to others, yes or no?
    Common sense is far more reliable than the bible.
    Compassion to strangers? No.
    Compassion to friends and family? Yes.

    Common sense.
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    (Original post by yokabasha)
    As I said before we live in a modern society so use you're common sense when it comes to this, I didn't say that religion didn't cause bad things, it's just that even without religion there would still be bad things occurring, just that we wouldn't even think about if it was a bad thing or not? without religion as some sort of guidance, and you still aint answered my question.
    So, how would we know that doing bad things is bad without religion? Really?

    Let me give you two answers:

    a) Common sense, as you said. Far more reliable than the morals preached by the bible as I have shown.

    b) Humanist philosophy.
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    (Original post by Hamesh)
    I've heard this plenty of times. It is greed, not religion, that causes the majority of violence.
    Religion does not specifically trigger a lot of violence, aside from in some psychopaths, but it does provides ample justification for war, moreso than any other cause, that is very hard to logically question because those fighting in the name of a religion have abandoned all logic and believe that they are right in the eyes of the creator of the universe. And who can blame them - those who wield "divine authority" over their weak-minded religious thralls threaten them with eternal damnation if the work of "insert god's name here" is not done, so consequently they will fight to the death. Conveniently, god's work usually coincides with the personal ambitions of those who wield religious authority. :rolleyes:

    Without religion there would be one less justification for war in the world. At that, the least logically coherent, morally sound and purposeful justification. That can only be a good thing.
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    A single religion does good, contrasting religions are not. If there are different religions then there is reason for extremists who cause the problems.
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    It's impossible to prove that the negation would be any different. Humans commit atrocities in the name of books all the time - would they (we?) be any less prone to such stupidity without books espousing deity?
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    (Original post by yokabasha)
    When we are born we are born into a world where we are governed by what we see and what we learn, if there were just bad things happening that would be the norm, but if there is even a bit kindness or guidance through religion we begin to question bad actions, but only if this is in place. Not many people during Jesus' time were exposed to philosophy, and philosophy is interesting but it does not exactly persuade people to act with kindness.
    :facepalm2:

    People evolved kindness, generosity and so forth millions of years ago when we were early hominins (possibly even before that) to act as mating advantages. Those who exhibited the most kindness and generosity would have been more successful in mating than less sociable individuals, and this also serves the evolutionary purpose of building a highly sociable species where individuals work together for the betterment of the whole.

    Religion has nothing to do with morality. If you took away religion, if it had never existed, people would still raise their children to be "good" because it is advantageous to the individual to live in a peaceful, stable society. People were capable of moral reasoning long before organised religion came on to the scene.
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    It's easy for many of us to say yes.

    Because we believe religion to be illogical and backward, and look down at those who follow it.

    But think of all those people who don't even have basic survival needs.

    Those 1 billion humans without access to clean water, all those children and people with no prospects, futures or hopes, no education, no support and no provision.

    Religion is one of the few things they cling to, that gives meaning to their life and brings happiness, regardless of whether it is true or not.

    Focussing on a few bad incidents some people interpret to be related to religion does not give one a good answer.

    " I don't have much truck with the ' religion is the cause of most of our wars' school of thought because that is manifestly done by mad, manipulative and power-hungry men who cloak their ambition in God. " - Terry Pratchett.
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    I agree with the statement.

    If I had the ability I would remove religion and other superstitions from humanity's repertoire of abilities.

    I am, sadly, not capable of altering human minds on a large scale and I find my lack of a personal indoctrination and propaganda machine to be a constant failing. Trying to outlaw religion would probably be even worse than the current state due to the increased conflict unless I had an efficient police state and terror machine to back me up. I'm not really seeing myself being able to reach a position to be able to outlaw religion or run a global anti-religion indoctrination machine without also being a cackling totalitarian dictator in line with Lenin or Mao.

    Therefore, I suppose, live and let live until the day comes we can wipe faith off the planet

    God, I sound a lot like a cackling totalitarian dictator. Luckily I don't have more political authority than the ordinary man.

    Which is more than enough to get the ball rolling!
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    (Original post by yokabasha)
    religious figures like Jesus first introduced these virtues of compassion into our society.
    No. Go and learn some history please. (And I don't mean go and read a bible)

    Humans are logical, if there was no religion to begin with, what reason would people have to genuinely care for complete strangers?
    Mutual benefits. I scratch your back... you scratch mine. These include psychological benefits.
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    (Original post by yokabasha)
    Okay so technically this world should be a perfect place then :/, humans have always fought for space, food and power, and what you say about always raising children to be good, where's the evidence?, in modern society it is this way because that is the norm, that is what is expected. On the basic human instincts we cooperate because we want to survive, it is not necessarily genuine compassion. If there was no religion introduced in the long past do you seriously think humans today would be able to display acts of kindness and compassion as we see today? I think there'd be some but to a much lesser extent and far less frequent, do you agree? Helping others is not logical to humans unless it in someway beneficial to them.
    (Original post by http://www.brighthub.com/environment/science-environmental/articles/21325.aspx)
    The Social Structure of Gorillas

    Typically gorillas can be found living in groups of between three and thirty members. Groups are usually comprised of a single adult silverback and three to four adult females. Other immature males and females younger than eight may also be part of the group. The adult male is the leader and protector in this type of grouping. Groups of bachelors are also common, with an older dominant male as the primary leader and protector.

    Adult females will often transfer to other social groups if the only adult male is her father as she will need a suitable male to mate with. A female may transfer groups multiple times before deciding which one to stay with. Adult males that have reached sexual maturity will usually form a new group or will transfer to a group of bachelors.

    Gorilla Behavior

    Gorillas will often establish and follow a set schedule that includes waking, eating, activity, traveling, preparing for sleep, and sleeping. Schedules and other behaviors including what foods to eat, social responses, child rearing, and sexual behavior are learned by children by watching their mothers and other adults.

    Gorillas are affectionate and patient with children and often take the time to play with younger members of the group. When necessary, children are disciplined with displeased body postures and looks as well as with stern vocalizations that sound to humans like deep grunts.

    In total gorillas can communicate with about twenty-five different vocalizations, some of which can be heard up to a mile away. When gorillas are happy they can vocalize in numerous ways to show their pleasure including chuckling and purring. They will also smile when pleased. Short barking sounds can be used to indicate interest or curiosity.
    Gorillas get along well without religion :cool:
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    (Original post by yokabasha)
    Okay so technically this world should be a perfect place then :/, humans have always fought for space, food and power, and what you say about always raising children to be good, where's the evidence?, in modern society it is this way because that is the norm, that is what is expected. On the basic human instincts we cooperate because we want to survive, it is not necessarily genuine compassion. If there was no religion introduced in the long past do you seriously think humans today would be able to display acts of kindness and compassion as we see today? I think there'd be some but to a much lesser extent and far less frequent, do you agree? Helping others is not logical to humans unless it in someway beneficial to them.
    Humans are, oddly enough, not completely rational beings. It's one of the reasons religions exist after all! Since religions are constructed tools for social control I see religious doctrine as a reflection of human nature told through mysticism in order to make human attributes seem infallible by it's creators. There is no separation between 'religious attributes' and 'human attributes'.
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    (Original post by adam_zed)
    "Me and my friend have different methods of eating oreos. Now he thinks that snapping them in half is correct where as I know to truly get the best from it one must dunk it in milk. We get fustrated that each other cannot come around to our perceived right methods of eating oreos. This escalates as we start vandalising each others property and culminates in me killing him, purely because I know I am right."

    Conflict exists with any sort of divisive concept whether it be political ideology or ethnicity. I would say that the problem lies not with any of these things, rather humans themselves.

    Also the car bomb, correct me if I am wrong, was about nationalist issues and not religion. This false association is true also of many of the worst atrocities in recent years that are lumped with "oh that damn religion". 9/11, whilst justified by the culprits through the word of Allah was motivated by American presence in Saudi Arabia. 7/7 was based on the perceived evil behaviour of occupying forces in the middle east. Whilst both can be related in some way to religion, to blame them on religion themselves whilst ignorimg the geo-political causes is just wrong.
    i see posts like this and i think why bother writing anything if i cant articulate as well as thiss.. one day.
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    although, if you do look at past national revivals surely you can see that a whole nation being swpt ove rby the holy spirit and brought to christ and given lives they would of never been able to have without him, shows a pure glory fest of absolute maad euphoric happiness..
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    (Original post by Bobifier)
    I'm sorry, was that sentence supposed to make sense?
    So he missed the "who" out between "those" and "are". It's not like it was hard to see what he was getting at.
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    Being raised in a VERY religious home myself i can say that it more often than not produces well meaning nice people with good values.
    What we see is a few select people twisting words of there religion to justify hurting others. It's a shame really because the community to provides can be generally quite supportive and accepting no matter what.
    I left my church when i was 14, and my pastor and everyone else involved is still lovely. I'm always invited to the summer BBQ, sunday school plays and if i have a problem i cant talk to anyone about i know my pastor will be willing to listen.

    Just to clarify, No, i am not religious any more. This is just my veiw as once a member looking back.
 
 
 
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