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    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    I don't think they've quite worked it out that the patron saint of England who they wish to celebrate was Turkish.
    I thought he was Palestinian.
    Oh and also I don't think he ever came to Britain.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    Perhaps alcohol is part of it, they are probably like that anyway and alcohol makes it worse.

    I found your statement to be quite interesting though:



    People in the party don't "pretend to be political", some of the supporters perhaps.

    Your last line:



    Is sort of accurate, however immigration is always a big feature, and it will continue to be so throughout generations until an ultimate balance or answer is found.
    I think that BNP supporters feed on the xenophobia which has been part of English worldly thought since the break with Rome in 1534. I happen to know over a dozen BNP supporters and they all possess the same fundamental weakness: they cannot distinguish personal grievances from politics. Immigration does indeed contriute in some way to social and economic ills, but after studying the effects of it, I am minded to say that BNP supporters exaggerate its consequences due to the aforementioned traditional character defect (xenophobia).

    Therefore, by including personal views in their political philosophies (abhorrence or distrust of foreigners), BNP supporters seem to inflate political thought due to their apparent inability to inflate it with pragmatic philosophy.
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    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    The fact that some members deny the holocaust, while others maintain it didn't happen the way that it did happen, that's how they try to rewrite history and
    Oh I see, so by "the origins of history", you simply meant "history".
    Why is that a problem, though? The study of history is meant to be evidence-based and therefore is ALWAYS open to review and criticism. People seem to think that the worse an alleged crime/event, the more wrong it is to ever doubt that it happened. It's a good job we don't apply the same thinking to court cases.


    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    glorifying 'britishness'
    You previously mentioned "glorifying mass murder" - can you address this, please? Who glorifies mass murder and how?

    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    when there is no such thing
    Can you elaborate here?
    Do you feel that other countries are distinct and have a right to a national identity, but Britain does not? Or perhaps in your view no country can be distinguished from any other?
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    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    I don't think they've quite worked it out that the patron saint of England who they wish to celebrate was Turkish... or the fact the nations favourite dish is Chicken Tikka Masala which we wouldn't have if it weren't for immigrants oh and don't even get me started on all the stuff they rely on ....
    Haha yes, and fish and chips is a Jewish invention. The fact that we are an island nation does strengthen stubborn nationalist thought though.
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    (Original post by Alex-jc123)
    I think that BNP supporters feed on the xenophobia which has been part of English worldly thought since the break with Rome in 1534. I happen to know over a dozen BNP supporters and they all possess the same fundamental weakness: they cannot distinguish personal grievances from politics.
    Good point, however you don't just find this with the BNP, supporters of other parties do this too, however it's not of a racist/xenophobic nature.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    I thought he was Palestinian.
    Oh and also I don't think he ever came to Britain.
    I was always taught he was Turkish, and I think you're right he didn't ever come to Britain
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    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    I was always taught he was Turkish, and I think you're right he didn't ever come to Britain
    Apparantly he was born in the city of Lydda which is now called Lod in Syria Palaestina which is now in Israel (what would have then been Palestine, or Syria-Palestina.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    Good point, however you don't just find this with the BNP, supporters of other parties do this too, however it's not of a racist/xenophobic nature.
    True, but in the conext of immigration it is. For example, the Conservative Party tries to appeal to personal family values, which is in no way negative or socially harmful. The BNP, however, appeal to personal values on racist/xenophobic subjects which is of no benefit to either society or the State. It may seem ignorant of me to use this analogy, but one of the Nazi Party's main reasons for acquiring German support under the Weimer Republic was that it played on the xenophobia of the people. This increased social antagonism to the point that Hitler was the only conceivable remedy of the Weimer Republic's incompetence.
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    (Original post by Craig_D)
    Like of Greek Mythology? Thought you guys were against intermixing cultures? :mmm:
    :rofl:
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    (Original post by cttp_ngaf)
    Oh I see, so by "the origins of history", you simply meant "history".
    Why is that a problem, though? The study of history is meant to be evidence-based and therefore is ALWAYS open to review and criticism. People seem to think that the worse an alleged crime/event, the more wrong it is to ever doubt that it happened. It's a good job we don't apply the same thinking to court cases.

    If its evidence then why deny the evidence, thats like going to court, serving on a jury for a murder and having footage of the person murdering the victim and then saying 'nah going to find them not guilty'. Why doubt it happened when we know it happened, they don't say that the Armenian Genocide is a hoax or the millions of people murdered by Stalin so why with the Holocaust.



    You previously mentioned "glorifying mass murder" - can you address this, please? Who glorifies mass murder and how?
    I know plenty of members who glorify the Holocaust my cousins -in laws are a great example of this saying comments such as 'The only work Jews ever done was in them camps' or 'Hitler had the right idea we should get rid of muslims the same way as the Jews.'


    Can you elaborate here?
    Do you feel that other countries are distinct and have a right to a national identity, but Britain does not? Or perhaps in your view no country can be distinguished from any other?
    What I mean is you really have no reason to be a racist party when there is no such thing as Britishness. English is a hybrid of Latin, German and French, Patron Saint of England is Turkish, BNP has a strong christian ethos (apparently) when Christianity was brought over by the Romans and was started by Jews... oh maths is from the Arab world. If they wanted to be 'truly british' then they would need to get rid of most electronics, couldn't drive any modern cars and couldn't worship any religion. Countries can be distinguished from one another but the simple thing is nowadays you can't live in such a racist secluded world especially considering the advances in science and technology and the fact we all descend from a common ancestor from Africa.
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    (Original post by Alex-jc123)
    Haha yes, and fish and chips is a Jewish invention. The fact that we are an island nation does strengthen stubborn nationalist thought though.
    Exactly! The fact we're an island should make people less likely to be racist I mean not everyone in the BNP is going to be from families who've been here since this country became an island.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    Apparantly he was born in the city of Lydda which is now called Lod in Syria Palaestina which is now in Israel (what would have then been Palestine, or Syria-Palestina.
    Cool you learn something new everyday but he's still not English which kind of makes a big BNP fail :P
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    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    Exactly! The fact we're an island should make people less likely to be racist I mean not everyone in the BNP is going to be from families who've been here since this country became an island.
    It would be nearly impossible for there to be someone alive today whose ancestry goes back before the Romans even. When the German Saxons invaded in the 5th century, they came in a total number of over 1million to an island with only 1.5 million. They probably slaughtered about 1/3 of the population too and had children amongst the local people. It would be like 40 million Turkish people coming to Britain today... the impact would almost destroy native culture, language and ethnicity.
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    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    If its evidence then why deny the evidence,
    I said that history is meant to be evidence-based, not that there is or is not certain evidence for "the holocaust". What that means is that it is not meant to be political (though of course it is really) and should not just be sealed up and, in some places, a crime to talk about.

    It's a bit like "science", which is in theory purely based on objective evidence and crap, but in reality it's highly politicised.

    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    thats like going to court, serving on a jury for a murder and having footage of the person murdering the victim and then saying 'nah going to find them not guilty'.
    The holocaust is more complex than that, love, and the web of "evidence" that leads us to the current popular idea of it is not as simple as video footage. It's a complicated thing.

    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    Why doubt it happened when we know it happened
    Very convincing!

    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    they don't say that the Armenian Genocide is a hoax or the millions of people murdered by Stalin so why with the Holocaust.
    Why should they be connected? One can take issue with a certain historical event without having to take issue with others superficially similar to it, lol.

    What I mean is you really have no reason to be a racist party when there is no such thing as Britishness.
    Is there such thing as "any-other-countryness"? Would you tell people of other country's that there is "no such thing" as their national identity too, or is it just Britain?
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    (Original post by cttp_ngaf)
    I said that history is meant to be evidence-based, not that there is or is not certain evidence for "the holocaust". What that means is that it is not meant to be political (though of course it is really) and should not just be sealed up and, in some places, a crime to talk about.
    It's a bit like "science", which is in theory purely based on objective evidence and crap, but in reality it's highly politicised.
    The holocaust is more complex than that, love, and the web of "evidence" that leads us to the current popular idea of it is not as simple as video footage. It's a complicated thing.
    Very convincing!
    Why should they be connected? One can take issue with a certain historical event without having to take issue with others superficially similar to it, lol.
    Is there such thing as "any-other-countryness"? Would you tell people of other country's that there is "no such thing" as their national identity too, or is it just Britain?
    You know so far you have only attempted to pick apart any answer I give you and yet can not give any arguments of your own :rolleyes:
    Oh and I know that the holocaust is a lot more complicated then video evidence, although the amount of testimonies from survivors, soldiers, photographic evidence, statements from the Nuremberg trials e.t.c. make it a very convincing argument then 'It didn't happen!' also I didn't say they were connected but why pick one point of history to deny e.t.c. and yet not others where similar things occurred, although from what you're insinuating this is perfectly fine we can pick on one group to accuse of being liars yet not other groups wow makes perfect sense!
    Why would it just be Britain that couldn't have a national identity, we do have an identity as does every other country nothing is limited to one country however there is no such thing as truly British or truly German e.t.c Take the Persian language despite it being known as Persian to us and we associate it with Iran it is not just spoken in Iran its spoken in various other countries under different names for example Iraq!
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    (Original post by Alex-jc123)
    It would be nearly impossible for there to be someone alive today whose ancestry goes back before the Romans even. When the German Saxons invaded in the 5th century, they came in a total number of over 1million to an island with only 1.5 million. They probably slaughtered about 1/3 of the population too and had children amongst the local people. It would be like 40 million Turkish people coming to Britain today... the impact would almost destroy native culture, language and ethnicity.
    Exactly like I mentioned my cousin is married to a member of the BNP and his family is from Ireland (not northern Ireland) and says even EU immigrants should go back to where they come from which to me fails as a argument.
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    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    You know so far you have only attempted to pick apart any answer I give you and yet can not give any arguments of your own :rolleyes:
    What arugments of my own am I supposed to be making?

    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    Oh and I know that the holocaust is a lot more complicated then video evidence, although the amount of testimonies from survivors, soldiers, photographic evidence, statements from the Nuremberg trials e.t.c. make it a very convincing argument then 'It didn't happen!'
    If you're convinced by it that's fine by me. Others aren't.

    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    also I didn't say they were connected but why pick one point of history to deny e.t.c. and yet not others where similar things occurred, although from what you're insinuating this is perfectly fine we can pick on one group to accuse of being liars yet not other groups wow makes perfect sense!
    I still don't understand this. Yes it is perfectly fine to debate one particular historical issue without also debating every other historical issue.

    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    Why would it just be Britain that couldn't have a national identity
    I can think of no reason.

    (Original post by Charlottie93)
    we do have an identity as does every other country
    I'm glad
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    (Original post by Singh993)
    So yea feel free to create this and watch how every brown will come at you in packs of aggression until it falls and hits the ground like a piece'a bird ****

    best wishes

    manny (a indian-sikh ready to **** up any BNP boy who wants a keyboard fight)
    You're a disgrace
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    (Original post by cttp_ngaf)
    What arugments of my own am I supposed to be making?

    If you're convinced by it that's fine by me. Others aren't.


    I still don't understand this. Yes it is perfectly fine to debate one particular historical issue without also debating every other historical issue.


    I can think of no reason.


    I'm glad
    Ok well how about answering this why do members of the BNP deny the holocaust or say it didnt happen on the scale that has been documented?
    Why should Britain have a national identity?
    What is actually British in this day and age?
    Also what point are you trying to make because so far all you've done is make rather lame statements that are neither use nor ornament to this thread?
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    (Original post by CKin2U)
    You're a disgrace
    thanks man! right back at you <3
 
 
 
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