Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    My point is you're wasting your talents and your minds. The Nazis tried to impose their views on Eugenics etc on the rest of the world and look what happened? What the BNP believes isn't really that far off the mark and the comments I have read in support of violent organisations like the KKK just sicken me right to the core.

    If you honestly believe in a modern, dynamic and global society that the kind of ignorance like the Nazis can ever rise again and spread across Europe and the World then you really are stupid or most think the rest of the world is on your low level of intellect and morality.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jackthevillain)
    Yes youre a madman because you sound like a typical left wing sheep. People know im right check the figures for yourself and thats why the left wing sheep neg me to try and make me look bad pretty pathetic.
    If in doubt, blame it on the left wing. Fool proof.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by No Future)
    Have you ever cared for a dying person in a hospital?

    Most of them don't have much capacity to chat.

    i have indeed cared for people on a geriatric ward. and even if someone is too unwell to chat they know whether those caring for them actually care about them. in the same way as a dog knows whether his master cares for him or not. .... also it can be quite tricky to know how mentally competent someone is: which is why doctors advise people not to talk about someone as though they are not around, even if they seem to be unconscious - it seems that hearing is an ability that is one of the last to go.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Redreynard)
    i have indeed cared for people on a geriatric ward. and even if someone is too unwell to chat they know whether those caring for them actually care about them. in the same way as a dog knows whether his master cares for him or not. .... also it can be quite tricky to know how mentally competent someone is: which is why doctors advise people not to talk about someone as though they are not around, even if they seem to be unconscious - it seems that hearing is an ability that is one of the last to go.
    Yes because a clinician's ability to care or empathise with their patient is based on their race, ethnicity or religion etc? Maybe you should teach clinical skills at medical school. Your ethical views would really come in handy....
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Warrior King)
    Hmm ok then but one thing about your statement puzzles me.

    Culture, humour, religion.......I thought doctors, nurses and other healthcare professionals were employed on their professional and clinical skills as competent clinicians i.e. their ability to make a sound diagnosis, request specific investigations, prescribe the right medication, carry out an appropriate management plan etc.

    Well that's the impression I've got at university the last 4 years.

    Empathy and providing first-class healthcare isn't about any of those things you listed above and I doubt a gentleman with a dissecting aorta is going to refuse surgery because the consultant trained in Lahore and has never watched the Antiques Roadshow or doesn't know who Stanley Matthews is.

    Immigration is what made the NHS work in the first place. But I suppose you can't understand that.

    But yeah the clinicians working on the NHS are hired not because of superficial values you stipulated. Yes there has to be an ability to empathise and sympathise with patients but race or religion doesn't play a role in that. Most importantly it's their professional and clinical standards on which they are employed.
    the traditional distinction was this: doctors are employed for their knowledge of medicine - you're quite right, the surgeon can be a ******* so long as he knows what he's doing. but even then, i think that doctors with a good bedside manner are respected for good reason. but nursing: nursing is all about empathy and care: as florence nightingale stressed. and this is the important part of medicine. (although modern nurses often, thinking of themselves as doctors due to having taken mickey mouse degrees, don't do the real nursing of cleaning and caring, they leave that to nursing assistants.) you consider a doctor having a good bedside manner, which you rightly say consists of knowing about the antiques roadshow and stanley matthews, as being of little importance, i vehemently disagree. .... most people in a hospital bed are in the last weeks of life. doctors might be able to drag out a few extra weeks, but often this is done in a cruel way that i'd not recommend. the more enlightened doctors know that despite all their education usually the game is up. except that there is a more important game: letting someone die in as pleasant a manner as possible: letting them have a good death. .... one day i want to feel that "today is a good day to die." and on that that day, or more melodramatically the last few weeks of my life, i might well want to talk about stanley matthews - the oldest player to ever play for england - or maybe hear some kindly pink-faced girl from devon quote something she'd read in the bible. is that too much to ask?
    (or must the nhs continue to be a hellhole which frequently kills oldsters by refusing to let them drink? if you're medically trained you'll know about the frequent use of dehydration as a way of bumping off oldsters.)
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    less melodramatically
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    No pasaran to the fascist BNP!
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Redreynard)
    the traditional distinction was this: doctors are employed for their knowledge of medicine - you're quite right, the surgeon can be a ******* so long as he knows what he's doing. but even then, i think that doctors with a good bedside manner are respected for good reason. but nursing: nursing is all about empathy and care: as florence nightingale stressed. and this is the important part of medicine. (although modern nurses often, thinking of themselves as doctors due to having taken mickey mouse degrees, don't do the real nursing of cleaning and caring, they leave that to nursing assistants.) you consider a doctor having a good bedside manner, which you rightly say consists of knowing about the antiques roadshow and stanley matthews, as being of little importance, i vehemently disagree. .... most people in a hospital bed are in the last weeks of life. doctors might be able to drag out a few extra weeks, but often this is done in a cruel way that i'd not recommend. the more enlightened doctors know that despite all their education usually the game is up. except that there is a more important game: letting someone die in as pleasant a manner as possible: letting them have a good death. .... one day i want to feel that "today is a good day to die." and on that that day, or more melodramatically the last few weeks of my life, i might well want to talk about stanley matthews - the oldest player to ever play for england - or maybe hear some kindly pink-faced girl from devon quote something she'd read in the bible. is that too much to ask?
    (or must the nhs continue to be a hellhole which frequently kills oldsters by refusing to let them drink? if you're medically trained you'll know about the frequent use of dehydration as a way of bumping off oldsters.)
    I was more horrified by the fact that you seem to think a foreign clinician or hcp would have less care or concern for their patients than one of the same race or ethnicity. You do understand principles of medical ethics right? About how the patient care comes first and how not to allow your own personal views etc to comprimise that patient's healthcare right?

    More often than not if a patient wishes to spend their days surrounded by someone with similar interests etc then usually they're surrounded by family and close friends who I have no doubt would probably have some shared interests with the patient.

    And you accuse the NHS of performing involuntary euthanasia by refusing to let them to drink? You do realise that if a patient is about to undergo emergency surgery or with certain infections etc the patient has to be kept nil by mouth right?

    Good bedside manner isn't defined by race or culture. It's defined by how you treat the patient and how you express your concerns and you don't need to have a knowledge of football or Devon etc to perform that and it's an insult to the memory of Florence Nightingale that would even affiliate her morals and principles with your warped views.

    The fact that you are even allowed access to vunerable patients is even more disturbing and I wonder how you can maintain professional standards amongst all patients irrespective of their backgrounds in light of the views you have expressed on this forum.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    If in doubt, blame it on the left wing. Fool proof.
    Lol my thoughts exactly. He says the same thing in all of his posts I've come across.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Warrior King)
    I was more horrified by the fact that you seem to think a foreign clinician or hcp would have less care or concern for their patients than one of the same race or ethnicity. You do understand principles of medical ethics right? About how the patient care comes first and how not to allow your own personal views etc to comprimise that patient's healthcare right?

    More often than not if a patient wishes to spend their days surrounded by someone with similar interests etc then usually they're surrounded by family and close friends who I have no doubt would probably have some shared interests with the patient.

    And you accuse the NHS of performing involuntary euthanasia by refusing to let them to drink? You do realise that if a patient is about to undergo emergency surgery or with certain infections etc the patient has to be kept nil by mouth right?

    Good bedside manner isn't defined by race or culture. It's defined by how you treat the patient and how you express your concerns and you don't need to have a knowledge of football or Devon etc to perform that and it's an insult to the memory of Florence Nightingale that would even affiliate her morals and principles with your warped views.

    The fact that you are even allowed access to vunerable patients is even more disturbing and I wonder how you can maintain professional standards amongst all patients irrespective of their backgrounds in light of the views you have expressed on this forum.
    most people die in hospital surrounded by doctors and nurses with occasional visits from family - if they have a family.
    of course good bedside manner is defined by culture. say you fell ill in the amazon jungle and you were cared for by some native amazonian indians, they would i am sure do their best. but not sharing your culture, specifically not sharing your language, if you felt depressed they would be less able to help you than if say freud lived with them.
    i'm curious which medical school you go to. you are confusing nil by mouth with letting patients die of dehydration: two very different medical scenarios. also the use of the word "affiliate" in the sentence about florence nightingale does not make sense.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Redreynard)
    most people die in hospital surrounded by doctors and nurses with occasional visits from family - if they have a family.
    of course good bedside manner is defined by culture. say you fell ill in the amazon jungle and you were cared for by some native amazonian indians, they would i am sure do their best. but not sharing your culture, specifically not sharing your language, if you felt depressed they would be less able to help you than if say freud lived with them.
    i'm curious which medical school you go to. you are confusing nil by mouth with letting patients die of dehydration: two very different medical scenarios. also the use of the word "affiliate" in the sentence about florence nightingale does not make sense.
    My signature reveals all.

    And no I was never aware either from my medical school, gmc documents we use for reflective writing or by clinicians I have shadowed that cultural background determined the level of care a clinician could display.

    Nevertheless I still find your views somewhat disturbing and totally incompatible with the healthcare profession. Thankfully your views are simply just that, your own distorted views and not shared by the vast majority of the medical/healthcare profession.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Warrior King)
    My signature reveals all.

    And no I was never aware either from my medical school, gmc documents we use for reflective writing or by clinicians I have shadowed that cultural background determined the level of care a clinician could display.

    Nevertheless I still find your views somewhat disturbing and totally incompatible with the healthcare profession. Thankfully your views are simply just that, your own distorted views and not shared by the vast majority of the medical/healthcare profession.

    you sound quite angry for a future doctor. and easily disturbed. have you never come across anyone who disagrees with you?
    i agree that my views are not shared by the vast majority of the medical profession. but the medical profession sold its soul when it gave up its independence to the nanny state.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Redreynard)
    you sound quite angry for a future doctor. and easily disturbed. have you never come across anyone who disagrees with you?
    i agree that my views are not shared by the vast majority of the medical profession. but the medical profession sold its soul when it gave up its independence to the nanny state.
    Angry? Hardly.

    I have met many people who disagree with my opinions but I have never met anyone with such narrow-minded bigotted views such as your own and what worries me is that you have had patient contact.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Warrior King)
    Angry? Hardly.

    I have met many people who disagree with my opinions but I have never met anyone with such narrow-minded bigotted views such as your own and what worries me is that you have had patient contact.

    places to go to find narrow-minded bigots. the golf club. country mansions. and happy socially strong homogeneous societies like japan.
    the nhs lets loads of low-life's have patient contact. it comes from paying low salaries.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    If you come across a patient from a different culture to you, will you treat them any less than someone from your own? Will your level of care drop? Will you be less attentive? Will it MATTER to you?
    Will it matter to THEM, so long as you maintain a basic level of empathy and are attentive and kind towards them? If it was me, and I was being cared for by a nurse who was the nicest person I could ever meet, but didn't watch the 'Antiques Roadshow' (which I don't watch, btw XD), I would not care!

    If you deny potentially excellent medical professionals on the basis that they 'wont understand the cultures of their patients', then you degrade the medical profession.

    Places to find narrow-minded bigots: Here, apparently.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    And you degrade the National Health Service *
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    I hope honourable members won't mind if I close this now. This has gone off the topic of a TSR BNP Party specifically and is now just a general debate, more suited for the UK Politics or Current Affairs forums. If the members looking to form a BNP Party can prove over the next few weeks that they can contribute actively to the House of Commons and get closer to meeting eligibility requirements, I shall review the situation. Further queries about the TSR BNP Party should be posted in Ask The Speaker.


    Those who are interested in joining a TSR BNP should get in contact with Dave Davidson.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Has a teacher ever helped you cheat?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.