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Do you think the new fee system in 2012 will force some universities to close? watch

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    The approach that I have always taken to it is this. Excluding the 'top' universities in the UK, is a degree from the others really worth £9000 a year? I mean, is it? Is Leeds Metropolitan in the same class as Oxford for its professors and lecturers? I doubt it. No discredit meant to Leeds Metropolitan, I am just using it for comparison. And if it is, what have they done differently in their teaching methods or degree structure to constitute charging someone nearly three times as much as the previous year? Probably nothing, or less, will be the answer. This is what I find most troubling about it. It will not put me off applying for University because I want to study at a top institution, but I can see why some people would go study abroad in Europe such as The Netherlands for instance, where they are already receiving hundreds of British applicants.
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    (Original post by River85)
    Ask yourself ... university?
    I defined a world competitive University as any University included in the top 50 Times world University league tables.
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    (Original post by Gwalchgwyn)
    How would increasing profits cause a university to close/go bust? Am i missing something here?
    Due to cuts in funding in education which means if I am correct some unis would have to charge something like £7,000+ to break even but in which a lot of unis will be capped at £6,000, it doesn't make scenes.
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    No but some courses will disappear as they should to an extent
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    I think it depends on:

    A. Whether there are people stupid enough to waste £9k/yr to go to awful universities. If there are, no issues.
    or
    B. Whether or not said universities are capable of realising that their fees are putting students off and they're effectively losing more money as a result and subsequently decide to reduce fees to increase numbers.

    As far as I am aware, a lot of the lower unis are running on debt and therefore probably won't have much of a financial safety net when it comes to dealing with scenario B. Certainly it seems some of the less profitable departmental branches are being pruned already.

    Edit: Negged? Pfft. Come at me bro.
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    most definitely, obvs Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial/UCL are going to have the max, but smaller universities such as Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Huddersfield and a few mets are also applying for max fees, so its quite possibly going to price most people out of the higher education market!
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    (Original post by NS17)
    I defined a world competitive University as any University included in the top 50 Times world University league tables.
    Thought so.

    Why top 50 then? Seems a bit arbitary? Also, as the rankings vary year on year, does that mean one university stops becoming a world competitive university if they fall out? Universities can change 20 or 30 places or more in only a year.

    I haven't even mentioned how much league tables radically differ either...so you're obviously only using the same one or two tables.

    I just don't see why Warwick, Birmingham, Durham, Glasgow (pick Russell or 1994 Group university) aren't "world competitive" universities when they attract large numbers of international students and produce a large amount of world leading research (with some of their departments being amongst the strongest in the world) ie they compete on the world stage)
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    I think it would be a shame personally if any university closed because of the increase in fees - a lot of them probably feel they have to charge that so just on first glance they are not assumed to be a lot worse and to try and slow down any larger growing debt they have already!
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    (Original post by ultimate mashup)
    and if so which uni's do you think are at risk.
    I hope so. There are too many (so-called) universities in Britain for a country of this size.

    Look at other European countries, they hardly have as many universities as Britain has.
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    (Original post by NS17)
    The UK barely has 5 World Competitive (top 50) universities right now, how do you plan on bumping up that number? "Purge the ex-polys"? Have you even considered the effect that closing half the country's Universities will have on Britain?

    The job losses alone would be tremendous, an exodus of professors and researchers would leave Britain to work where there are more research and teaching posts, further impacting on Britain's ability to compete at the world scale and all together more seriously, have a damaging effect on our economy which isn't exactly healthy right now.

    Your opinion is so ill-informed it's insulting to all us Ex-poly students with our sub standard educations.
    Universities are supposed to be centres of academic research and education; not as a way of artificially bumping up the employment statistics.
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    (Original post by viksta1000)
    most definitely, obvs Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial/UCL are going to have the max, but smaller universities such as Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Huddersfield and a few mets are also applying for max fees, so its quite possibly going to price most people out of the higher education market!
    Smaller in size? Manchester is the largest university in the country, in terms of student numbers certainly. Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield are all members of the Russell Group (large, research intensive universities) and it was always going to be the case that most, if not all of these, will charge the max 9k.
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    (Original post by pinkpont)
    It won't change a thing. If someone is too stupid to realise that in real terms, repaying student loans where the tuition fees are £3000 or £9000 a year are essentially the same, then they probably shouldn't be going to University. Universities are being incredibly hypocritical - foreign students, for example, pay even more than the £9000 a year that we'll have to pay, and they don't get the benefit of a very favourable loan. Yet, why do I not see mass protests on their behalf?
    Because they also have the chance to study at their home country and because no one can protest for something that is happening in a foreign country. If you don't like it, don't come, would be the answer. But for a uk citizen, who faces massive increase in tuition fees from one year to the next, why would protesting be bad? Seriously, wake up! They make a student pay 3 times as much for the same quality of education. If they had kept the government funding at the same levels I'd say ok, at least this means you get better quality teaching. But this way they just make students pay so they can MASSIVELY cut funding for education

    What bugs me in this situation is that there was no transition. You can't go from 3000 to 9000 in a year! Increasing fees should be done more gradually so that students and families had time to adjust, and also because this amount of increase is just INSANE!
    The same goes for the cuts from government funding. 85%? WTF!

    I think that many universities will have less applicants, but not the good ones.
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    (Original post by 21stcenturyphantom)
    The approach that I have always taken to it is this. Excluding the 'top' universities in the UK, is a degree from the others really worth £9000 a year? I mean, is it? Is Leeds Metropolitan in the same class as Oxford for its professors and lecturers? I doubt it. No discredit meant to Leeds Metropolitan, I am just using it for comparison. And if it is, what have they done differently in their teaching methods or degree structure to constitute charging someone nearly three times as much as the previous year? Probably nothing, or less, will be the answer. This is what I find most troubling about it. It will not put me off applying for University because I want to study at a top institution, but I can see why some people would go study abroad in Europe such as The Netherlands for instance, where they are already receiving hundreds of British applicants.
    This was my thought.

    I don't think it wil happen straight away, but eventually people will start to think that it isn't worth the £9000 for some universities, because they can't pay off the debt because they can't get a decent job. So less people will go to the lower ranked universities, and they may be forced to close.

    Its all predictions though, and I guess at least in the 2012 admissions cycle, we'll be able to have a better idea about what might happen.
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    (Original post by Xristina)
    They make a student pay 3 times as much for the same quality of education. If they had kept the government funding at the same levels I'd say ok, at least this means you get better quality teaching.
    What makes you think that teaching standards would have gone up if the government had kept their funding in addition to the increase in fees? When our funding went up last time all reports published showed there were no noticeable improvements to the quality of teaching students received.

    The only difference I saw was a large rise in the number of admin staff, which was backed up by the Times Higher who repeorted that for the first time ever, the salaries of uni admin people was greater than uni lecturers.
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    (Original post by wdywuk)
    What makes you think that teaching standards would have gone up if the government had kept their funding in addition to the increase in fees? When our funding went up last time all reports published showed there were no noticeable improvements to the quality of teaching students received.

    The only difference I saw was a large rise in the number of admin staff, which was backed up by the Times Higher who repeorted that for the first time ever, the salaries of uni admin people was greater than uni lecturers.
    I know for a fact that scholarships and bursaries available have been reduced because of the cuts. Also, many departments have been closed or merged. My bf's university actually announced they ll be taking more international students come next year because they need the money. The teaching itself might not change, but the resources would (by that I mean libraries, labs, opportunities for field work etc)
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    (Original post by River85)
    Smaller in size? Manchester is the largest university in the country, in terms of student numbers certainly. Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield are all members of the Russell Group (large, research intensive universities) and it was always going to be the case that most, if not all of these, will charge the max 9k.
    in terms of rep...they're great universities don't get me wrong

    Yes, I know they are bound to charge the maximum fee, my point is that *majority* of people who go to universities such as Sheffield, Manchester, Leeds, Leicester etc are not the 'my mummy and daddy pay for my life' type of people, just normal, blue-collar folks hoping to gain a further education, and I personally don't think its fair to charge them 9k and perhaps deter them from higher education

    last week it was released that Essex and Leeds Met were hoping to charge 9k fees, a practical example of a university 'for the masses' choosing to charge max fees and perhaps deter 'average' students in their market
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    The Govt expressly hope that the ex-swimming baths are closed as a result of these reforms.
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    (Original post by River85)
    Ask yourself why universities are required to increase fees. Also, that if too many universities charge 9k, the university will possibly but back funding even more with teaching intensive universities particularly vulnerable.



    I certainly won't be surprised to see Cumbria on its way out. Its Ambleside campus is already closed and, from what I've noticed in the regional media (and from those who studied there) it cannot afford to maintain its accomodation at another campus. The Penrith campus, I think. It is certainly experiencing some troublesome lossess.



    What's a "world competitive" university?
    I guess he means one that has high endowment , high research output with excellent teaching. Afterall most people ourside UK just heard of oxbridge

    In terms of endowment UK uni is still far away from the states
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    If Liverpool John moores university goes ahead with its confirmed proposal to charge the maximum fee of £9000, then I believe it won't be able to survive for long considering it is ranked at approx 100 on the big three league tables!
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    I think it will take a while for us to see any university closures, but what will happen rather quickly will be universities concentrating on vocational courses. I think students will be more inclined to estimate what they are likely to earn from their degree and if they conclude that they wont earn much, I believe instead of not going to university they will choose to study a degree that will generate better immediate career prospects.

    Currently a male studying humanities will earn less over their lifetime than if they didn't attend university in the first place. What the increase in fee's will do is make this happen for other subject areas across the genders.

    This will make a big dent in our teaching of the arts and humanities as a nation and perhaps students from mainly rich backgrounds will be the ones entering these fields in the future. Also we may see universities moving away from research and becoming mainly teaching institutions if this is where they will receive the majority of their income from.

    All our universities will in effect become technical colleges teaching mainly vocational subjects, very ironic for the people who dismiss the "ex poly's" so fervently.
 
 
 
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