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    (Original post by mangoh)
    -rep it clearly does?

    This is how: high quality teachers due to tuition fees
    How does that work?
    The universities won't actually be getting any more money than what they do now, so how will they get better staff? :confused:
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    (Original post by arabcnesbit)
    Yeah, that's why it's not fair.
    So you want to see fees for sciences etc go through the roof?
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    Oh dear.
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    (Original post by mangoh)
    -rep it clearly does?

    This is how: high quality teachers due to tuition fees (surely???). Many universities can now compete on a level and say we all have *high quality* teachers, come here? Another university could say *no, we have high teachers, come here* etc... So hopefully you understand it encourages competition

    On topic: Thanks for posting this, I'm glad most universities are charging £9,000 as it has to be said *again, my opinion* but often the working class distrupt lessons and ruin it for others. *just my opinion*
    how are the working class supposed to get a good job and hope of getting out of the working class other than through good education?
    a rare few (like alan sugar, first one that comes to mind) may have the talent/skill/luck to do good but most of us have to go the higher education route
    and tbh, working class does not automatically equal disruptive manners, so i would avoid making sweeping statements like that and upsetting people
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    (Original post by mangoh)
    -rep it clearly does?

    This is how: high quality teachers due to tuition fees (surely???). Many universities can now compete on a level and say we all have *high quality* teachers, come here? Another university could say *no, we have high teachers, come here* etc... So hopefully you understand it encourages competition

    On topic: Thanks for posting this, I'm glad most universities are charging £9,000 as it has to be said *again, my opinion* but often the working class distrupt lessons and ruin it for others. *just my opinion*
    OK i'm going to take the bait.

    I thought lecturers all get paid according to some pay scale? If this is the case, how can an increase in fee's attract better lecturer's if they get paid the same no matter where they teach?

    The working class disrupt lessons so higher fees will stop this? You really aren't doing too well here are you?
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    So you want to see fees for sciences etc go through the roof?
    If universities are going to charge for fee's, they should charge what it actually costs. If I want to go on holiday to France and get charged the same as it would cost to travel to Australia because, "well, we cant have holidays to Australia going through the roof now can we", I would be a tad upset.
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    (Original post by arabcnesbit)
    OK i'm going to take the bait.

    I thought lecturers all get paid according to some pay scale? If this is the case, how can an increase in fee's attract better lecturer's if they get paid the same no matter where they teach?

    The working class disrupt lessons so higher fees will stop this? You really aren't doing too well here are you?
    Agreed fail troll is fail.
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    So much for "exceptional circumstances" Damn tories *shakes fist*
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    (Original post by mangoh)
    I was only expressing my own view.
    +
    can sum1 tell me how universities won't get more money? £9,000 instead of £3225 (w/e it was before)?

    or does it go to the gov?
    The increase in tuition fees is only replacing the government funding which is being mostly removed. As such, most universities will essentially break even with the funding they currently get, and may get a tiny bit more money. But certainly not enough to improve anything.
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    Haven't we already got a mega thread for this?

    anyway Derby http://www.derby.ac.uk/undergraduate/2012-fees
    (includes VC boasting about his large surplus)

    Between 7,000 and 8,000 for existing courses depending on the cost of teaching them with the possibility of charging 9,000 for new specialist courses in the future - average expected fee for 1012 7,400.

    VC demonstrates understanding of high street pricing by stating the price levels at 6,995 & 7,995
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    (Original post by mangoh)
    I can't see how u can predict that they will break even?

    1) You don't know how many people will go to university in 2012.
    2) Government u said get it? Who pays teachers? The government?
    3) So I am correct, high quality teachers should arise because of the extra revenue due to tuition fees?

    any1 disagree, quote me bak but I highly doubt u would be right
    But there is no extra revenue!

    Until now the government has given universities a large amount of the money, and tuition fees (or top up fees as they were first called) just topped that up a bit.

    Now, the government is cutting hugely the amount of money it gives universities. This is the reason tuition fees are increasing - to make up the funding gap.

    So I will say it again - there is no (or very little) extra funding
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    Well my prediction was wrong :/
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    (Original post by mangoh)
    -rep it clearly does?

    This is how: high quality teachers due to tuition fees (surely???). Many universities can now compete on a level and say we all have *high quality* teachers, come here? Another university could say *no, we have high teachers, come here* etc... So hopefully you understand it encourages competition

    On topic: Thanks for posting this, I'm glad most universities are charging £9,000 as it has to be said *again, my opinion* but often the working class distrupt lessons and ruin it for others. *from my experiences*
    Had to quote because I couldn't neg. Don't really need to explain why you're talking crap.
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    (Original post by WhereIsMyMind)
    Not this whole argument again.
    I have to agree with you. I'm strongly opposed to rises in fees, but for those saying they won't go to uni at all because they'll accumulate too much debt: 1. if you really can't pay it back in the end, you won't have to, and 2. look at American students. Even other EU students have managed well (e.g. Sweden, when education was still costly).

    I've seen way too many students basing their arguments on hypothetical scenarios which are rather unlikely to occur. (But this isn't to say there aren't any good ones).

    I think it's the idea of having to pay more which concerns most. Cheap education has become entrenched in UK society, and now politicians are being massacred for spearheading this reform. To be fair, it isn't easy making sacrifices to prevent a problem which doesn't exist yet.

    From an economic point of view, yes, investment in education favours the economy's long-term health, but spending has to be cut to avoid a fate similar to that of Ireland. This is a practical solution. It wouldn't be much point guaranteeing everybody cheap education if, by the time they graduate, there are no jobs left since the economy has gone down the drain. :rolleyes: $12 billion(?) can be "saved" annually in this way. They're not going to take it all from the NHS and people's pensions. Everybody has to help pay it, and I think it's just as fair that the young and healthy should help bear the burden.
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    (Original post by Pigeon93)
    Everybody has to help pay it, and I think it's just as fair that the young and healthy should help bear the burden.
    The only people that didn't cause the problem are the ones who have to pay for it. How is this fair?
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    (Original post by mangoh)
    oh so before the government + tuition fees = break even

    now it is going to be tuition fees ONLY = break even (no government funding?)
    There is still some government funding, but no where near what it was.
    Under the new system, most universities will either end up with the same amount of money as they did before or ever so slightly more.

    Its one of the reasons why so many unis are so quick to charge £9k. So they can get a tiny bit extra money (although some of that will be siphoned off for "widening access").
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    (Original post by Pigeon93)
    Everybody has to help pay it, and I think it's just as fair that the young and healthy should help bear the burden.
    Why should it be the people who are least at fault for the problems, and least able to bear the burden though?
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    *sighs*
    i intended this thread to literally be a full list of univeristy tution fees
    ah well

    and my previous post may have been badly worded - of course my siblings still have the 'choice' to still go to university but they will be a lot worse of for it than i will
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    Given the nature of the fees are tax like, they might as well all charge £9,000 - I can't see many going for >£6k.
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    (Original post by arabcnesbit)
    The only people that didn't cause the problem are the ones who have to pay for it. How is this fair?
    "The ones who have to pay for it." Yes, but certainly not the only ones.

    Still, if you look at it that way, these are the same people who are subsidising the large majority of the remaining costs, despite the $9000 fee.

    The young always support the old. That's how pension systems work. Right now, it's just that, arguably, they need us more than ever. Exactly how much they need from us, however, i have no idea, hence why I'm still against the fee rise. I feel it makes too little difference to matter, especially at such great 'social unrest' (or maybe this is precisely why it matters, because if everybody said this...)
 
 
 
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