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    Which one do you guys reckon would be the easier subject to get in for?

    1. PPE has a higher acceptance rate than E&M (~15% and ~8%?)
    2. But PPE seems to have applicants with much higher quality
    3. BUT E&M has one of the lowest acceptance rates across all subjects in the university :eek:

    Do they balance out each other? or not?

    What do you guys think?

    P.E. nw, i'm not making any subject choices based on replies on this thread
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    No idea, but please don't choose your course based on which is marginally easier to get into else you won't get in at all.

    EDIT: You're not making subject choices based on the replies....ignore me
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    (Original post by ak726)
    Which one do you guys reckon would be the easier subject to get in for?

    1. PPE has a higher acceptance rate than E&M (~15% and ~8%?)
    2. But PPE seems to have applicants with much higher quality
    3. BUT E&M has one of the lowest acceptance rates across all subjects in the university :eek:

    Do they balance out each other? or not?

    What do you guys think?

    P.E. nw, i'm not making any subject choices based on replies on this thread
    I think what you are asking is something like: "does E&M have lots of low-quality applicants, inflating the numbers; so that if you removed those, the acceptance ratio of 'serious' applicants to PPE and E&M would be more similar?".

    From occasional chats I've had with tutors, I'd guess this is true to some extent. Many applicants seem to view E&M as a sure-fire way into a big-bucks job*, and it attracts quite a lot of not-very-well qualified applicants (as well as lots of highly-qualified applicants!). PPE doesn't to the same extent.

    Comparing TSA scores for successful and unsuccessful E&M and PPE applicants would be interesting, and maybe even informative, in this question; but those data aren't made public.

    :sheep:

    (* which is a bit misguided: the banks really like people who can do maths very well: mathematicians, physicists, engineers, etc.)
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    I don't see the point in this thread. If you're choosing between courses based on which is easier to get a place for, I don't think you will come across very well at an interview.

    My advice is to look at which course you are most interested in and make a decision based on that, regardless of the difficulty or ease of getting a place.
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    ........................not one of these again......

    They're very different courses, comparing the quality of applicants is not viable. The interviews will be structured differently and from my application this year, so do the topics of the TSA essay that E&M applicants opt for in comparison to PPE applicants.

    For the record: There were applicants with 4 A*s and 45 points in the IB who were rejected for E&M this year, Go check the TSA thread.
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    I am biased - but cannot understand why anyone would want to study management over politics and philosophy! You should not base your decision on applicant acceptance at all - ultimately if you are good enough to get into one of the subjects you are good enough for the other (ignoring the fact that PPE is somewhat more essay based and less quantitative ).
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    okay i think i ought to dive a little bit more into the matter

    no, i'm not choosing subjects based on how easy it is to get a place in it. well not entirely, at least. i had wanted to do an economics degree, came across ppe in the oxford website, thought it was interesting and did some further reading around the subjects and (sort of) fell in love with it. :P however, my school is trying to convince me that i have chosen the entirely wrong subjects for ppe and explained to me that e&m may not be as horrible as it seems. subject-wise i would love to study politics and philosophy but wouldn't mind management as well. so if it seems like i am a significantly stronger applicant for e&m i might consider choosing that. i wouldn't want to give up ppe but being an overseas applicant i always feel like a have some kind of responsibility to my parents who really had to give up loads just for me to be in the uk

    hope i had made myself clear and that this is not too much detail! XD anyway thanks guys for your replies
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    (Original post by ak726)
    okay i think i ought to dive a little bit more into the matter

    no, i'm not choosing subjects based on how easy it is to get a place in it. well not entirely, at least. i had wanted to do an economics degree, came across ppe in the oxford website, thought it was interesting and did some further reading around the subjects and (sort of) fell in love with it. :P however, my school is trying to convince me that i have chosen the entirely wrong subjects for ppe and explained to me that e&m may not be as horrible as it seems. subject-wise i would love to study politics and philosophy but wouldn't mind management as well. so if it seems like i am a significantly stronger applicant for e&m i might consider choosing that. i wouldn't want to give up ppe but being an overseas applicant i always feel like a have some kind of responsibility to my parents who really had to give up loads just for me to be in the uk

    hope i had made myself clear and that this is not too much detail! XD anyway thanks guys for your replies

    Hmm at the end of the day, it should come down to what extent you enjoy philosophy & politics.

    In my case, Economics was the primary interest but I also liked politics (still read journals to keep in touch with current affairs, been to tons of MUN conferences etc) but the prospect of studying philosophy for 3 years put me off. Studying logic, reason, ethics, philosophers like Aristotle, Kant etc wasn't something that really appealed to me.

    Economics was the main subject I had in mind and E&M seemed to stress it far more than PPE. Management seemed like a good option that would especially help me in the financial world 10 years down the line.

    Finally given an option, I would much rather solve a set of Math problems rather than write a long essay. Objectivity always appealed to me more.

    I hope that gives you a new perspective on your predicament.
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    To be honest, if you dont get in for one, i dont think you will get in for the other....

    There is a pool system etc in place to ensure the best candidates get in.....

    Just keep working hard, you'll get in if its right for you.
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    (Original post by rohitronaldo)
    so do the topics of the TSA essay that E&M applicants opt for in comparison to PPE applicants.
    Just fyi, the TSA essay doesn't actually factor in to the TSA score--it's just viewed by the interviewing tutors. So that doesn't add any bias into comparing relative TSA scores--though apart from a very thin correlation with final degree performance TSA doesn't really measure much of value imo.

    Also worth noting that what you mentioned about 45 IB points and 4A* applicants being rejected for E&M is not mutually exclusive with DtS's point about a relatively larger number of lower quality applicants.

    OP:

    I'd say E&M is definitely more competitive, but perhaps not quite at the level the acceptance percentages suggest.

    You should definitely go for PPE if you think you'd enjoy it a lot more. You're much more likely to get in if you can demonstrate real interest (and hopefully some further reading).
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    I'd say E&M is more competitive, but as others have said doing a course you are not interested in would be a major mistake. Competition should be a very small factor used to distinguish where no other differences exist only (and its difficult to see such a situation arising).

    (Original post by rohitronaldo)
    In my case, Economics was the primary interest but I also liked politics (still read journals to keep in touch with current affairs, been to tons of MUN conferences etc) but the prospect of studying philosophy for 3 years put me off. Studying logic, reason, ethics, philosophers like Aristotle, Kant etc wasn't something that really appealed to me.
    You can (and most do) drop one of P, P or E after first year. Of the 8 PPEists in my college year only one continued with philosophy, i think.
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    (Original post by Philosopher-of-sorts)
    Just fyi, the TSA essay doesn't actually factor in to the TSA score--it's just viewed by the interviewing tutors. So that doesn't add any bias into comparing relative TSA scores--though apart from a very thin correlation with final degree performance TSA doesn't really measure much of value imo.

    Also worth noting that what you mentioned about 45 IB points and 4A* applicants being rejected for E&M is not mutually exclusive with DtS's point about a relatively larger number of lower quality applicants.

    OP:

    I'd say E&M is definitely more competitive, but perhaps not quite at the level the acceptance percentages suggest.

    You should definitely go for PPE if you think you'd enjoy it a lot more. You're much more likely to get in if you can demonstrate real interest (and hopefully some further reading).
    Haha I'm aware of that, I applied for E&M so I did have to take the TSA. I do however think that the essay plays a bigger role than most believe. My TSA score was rather average (66.5) and there were a couple of other applicants to the same college as me who were about 1 or 2 points off me but didn't get to the interview stage. You might be right about the test being useless but at the end of the day, it's a pivotal factor in getting an interview (especially since only 30% of applicants are interviewed for E&M.)

    I'm sorry but I don't buy the whole "lower quality applicants". Oxford shares a huge pool of applicants with LSE, Imperial, UCL, Warwick, Durham etc. Even the worst applicants on an objective basis, are usually predicted 3 As / 38+ IB points.
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    (Original post by rohitronaldo)
    I'm sorry but I don't buy the whole "lower quality applicants". Oxford shares a huge pool of applicants with LSE, Imperial, UCL, Warwick, Durham etc. Even the worst applicants on an objective basis, are usually predicted 3 As / 38+ IB points.
    But it also seems to be a particularly popular with international students who often don't have a realistic idea of what is required of them to make a competitive application, and who sometimes also lack the necessary level of English. And it also seems to attract a surprisingly large number of people who have a slightly misguided idea of the course and (wrongly) believe it's a hands-on entrepreneurial degree, so they spend a great deal of time rattling on about their business experience.
    (This is all based on the personal statement drafts I've read via PS-help. They may or may not be a representative sample of the entire pool of applicants, but E&M is definitely a subject which has a higher than average percentage of poor statements as far as PS-help is concerned).:dontknow:
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    (Original post by hobnob)
    But it also seems to be a particularly popular with international students who often don't have a realistic idea of what is required of them to make a competitive application, and who sometimes also lack the necessary level of English. And it also seems to attract a surprisingly large number of people who have a slightly misguided idea of the course and (wrongly) believe it's a hands-on entrepreneurial degree, so they spend a great deal of time rattling on about their business experience.
    (This is all based on the personal statement drafts I've read via PS-help. They may or may not be a representative sample of the entire pool of applicants, but E&M is definitely a subject which has a higher than average percentage of poor statements as far as PS-help is concerned).:dontknow:
    Ahh fair enough, I hate secondary information but since this is coming straight from the primary source, I see what you mean.

    For the record, I'm an international applicant too haha. My personal statement was purely economics though - didn't use the word "management" even once.
 
 
 
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