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    (Original post by KeyserNI)
    Universities accept people applying with foundation years in conjunction with other qualifications they don't make that much of a difference and mostly help with the portfolio aspect of things. At the higher end of the grade spectrum people with ABB or ABB might get into AAB or AAA universities with the help of a foundation year and a great portfolio. If you don't make the minimum grade requirements a foundation year isn't going to help.

    Your post sounds like self denial. Also those job prospects percentages include everyone that got a job in the £ store or went on to further study as well as anyone that managed to find a job in architecture.

    I know nothing of DMU, I've never met a DMU student or seen their work or heard anything from the school and that almost certainly isn't a good thing.
    Well I know several students from DMU have won RIBA awards or ARB awards or some awards last year, Ken Shuttleworth went to DMU (albeit ages ago lol)

    But then surely if at the end of this year I effectively have BBE at A2, that could mean I could maybe get onto a course that wants BBB if i did the foundation, that is my kind of aim with this, I'm not asking if I'm going to get into UCL with a foundation course.

    My post isn't self denial, its more im just trying to avoid talking about what my problems are because I don't want to (on here that is), and for the purpose of what I'm trying to find out it actually doesn't matter.



    (Original post by chenman27)
    Don't most courses specify that the points need to come from A2? I had a look at Portsmouth, one of the ones you applied to, and it said typical offers were 260-320 points at A2 level or equivalent. That would mean ABE minimum. Is Foundation deemed equivalent? I don't know.

    In terms of UCAS points a foundation isn't going to be much more beneficial unless you get a Distinction which is 285 and I remember the head of foundation kept on harking on that only 10-20 of you will get distinctions, my course has 250 odd students.

    If possible could you tell me which unis stated they accept foundation courses on its own, just interested.

    Yes a lot of architecture schools do accept BTEC, I never said they didn't.

    My point is, yes you can get accepted into uni from a foundation but to what courses? If you are looking at those with a better academic reputation then the foundation course is more to do with improving your portfolio rather than being accepted directly from it.

    Most importantly, if you are happy with DMU then go for it, work hard and get a decent degree then apply for better unis for Part 2.
    well for example here with http://www.ljmu.ac.uk/courses/underg...?CourseId=K100 liverpool johnmoores...
    they say they accept an access to he course either on it's own or in conjunction with other qualifications, a lot of other unis also say the same, especially ones that accept around the ABB-BBC range.

    I just would like to try and workout how much of a better course than the one at DMU doing the foundation will get me onto, so I can work out for myself if I think it's worth it or not. Not that I know what is wrong with the DMU course it seemed very interesting and well taught from the open day, but then it would do, because it's an open day and that's the impression they want to give.
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    (Original post by TheMeters)
    Well I know several students from DMU have won RIBA awards or ARB awards or some awards last year, Ken Shuttleworth went to DMU (albeit ages ago lol)

    But then surely if at the end of this year I effectively have BBE at A2, that could mean I could maybe get onto a course that wants BBB if i did the foundation, that is my kind of aim with this, I'm not asking if I'm going to get into UCL with a foundation course.

    My post isn't self denial, its more im just trying to avoid talking about what my problems are because I don't want to (on here that is), and for the purpose of what I'm trying to find out it actually doesn't matter.
    The fact is 55% of A level predictions are wrong, saying I was predicted this or predicted that is pointless. Students influence teachers predictions and then when they get the prediction they think that mark is in the bag and it's not. I had a messed up home life involving alcohol abuse/violence all of my childhood up until I was 18 and although it played a part I can't make excuses for the entirety of my academic performance up until that point and I don't feel offer people should either. Life sucks and the majority of people have **** to deal with around that period of their lives.

    You'll have to link me to these DeMonfort students winning RIBA awards, remember being nominated for presidents medals doesn't count, every school nominates people.
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    (Original post by KeyserNI)
    The fact is 55% of A level predictions are wrong, saying I was predicted this or predicted that is pointless. Students influence teachers predictions and then when they get the prediction they think that mark is in the bag and it's not. I had a messed up home life involving alcohol abuse/violence all of my childhood up until I was 18 and although it played a part I can't make excuses for the entirety of my academic performance up until that point and I don't feel offer people should either. Life sucks and the majority of people have **** to deal with around that period of their lives.

    You'll have to link me to these DeMonfort students winning RIBA awards, remember being nominated for presidents medals doesn't count, every school nominates people.
    I wasn't trying to use it as an excuse, I was simply trying to avoid people wasting posts telling me I'm a failure/don't deserve to go to uni/should have tried harder etc. because I'm literally not interested in any of that that's for me to sort out, as far as I'm concerned if I can get an offer I deserve to go to university and that's all that matters.

    Here is a link to one http://www.dmu.ac.uk/faculties/art_a...tecu-award.jsp
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    (Original post by TheMeters)
    I wasn't trying to use it as an excuse, I was simply trying to avoid people wasting posts telling me I'm a failure/don't deserve to go to uni/should have tried harder etc. because I'm literally not interested in any of that that's for me to sort out, as far as I'm concerned if I can get an offer I deserve to go to university and that's all that matters.

    Here is a link to one http://www.dmu.ac.uk/faculties/art_a...tecu-award.jsp
    That isn't anything to do with the RIBA/ARB awards but it's an award none the less. You are trying to make excuses. Lots of people turn things around after doing badly during A levels, I think you are getting a lot of negative comments because at a time when architecture students are in over supply crap schools are still allowed to pump out hundreds of students a year that got in with BEE or whatever A levels.

    This isn't directed at you but "Robert’s winning project was a witch’s coven hidden in the rooftops of Old Town, Edinburgh." this is why I'm not studying architecture anymore.
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    (Original post by KeyserNI)
    That isn't anything to do with the RIBA/ARB awards but it's an award none the less.

    This isn't directed at you but "Robert’s winning project was a witch’s coven hidden in the rooftops of Old Town, Edinburgh." this is why I'm not studying architecture anymore.
    Yeah I've seen some RIBA or ARB or some organisation I recognized awarded to a DMU student, can't remember enough details to successfully google it though.

    Yeah, gotta admit, does seem a bit crap.

    here is a link about the head of MSA moving to DMU if it's of interest... http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/n...930261.article
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    (Original post by TheMeters)
    Sorry about the vague thread title, it's simply because I can't really shorten what I have to ask sufficiently enough to be more descriptive.

    Basically I want to do architecture, don't need to ask me why or question my motives, I'm very passionate about it yada yada.

    I'm currently doing a third year at sixth form, just finishing off an A level I started in year 13, namely, Philosophy, and working the rest of the time at a restaurant.

    Now for personal reasons and that frankly don't matter anymore and my school messing me about I didn't do that great (considering I was supposed to do them a year early) in my GCSEs, Got A's in science and Art, mostly B's in other subjects, a couple of C's, and an E in German. However I did crap at A level. So at the end of year 13 the A levels I have are;

    B in A2 Art
    E in A2 Psychology
    D in AS Philosophy
    E in AS Physics

    and like I said I'm finishing off the A2 in philosophy as we speak.

    Now I didn't apply for university in year 13 because of the aforementioned issues, but when I applied this year I just wanted to make sure I got in to university, and knowing my grades are rubbish, I basically applied for the worst universities that do architecture, because I didn't want to be another year behind most of my classmates.

    So I applied for East London, London South Bank, Portsmouth, Leeds Met and De Montfort. I got an "interview" from UEL, except when I got there they decided they didn't need to interview me, even though I'd spend nearly £100 getting there and back, and then rejected me. I also got an interview from South Bank, who rejected me saying my portfolio was not big enough (not helped by the fact that my school lost over half of my A level art work, and damaged two of my big sculptures I had done). Portsmouth and Leeds Met point blank rejected me, and I got an offer without an interview from DMU, having sent them my digital portfolio. All I need for the offer is a B in A2 philosophy.

    Having not got the offer from DMU until fairly late (it was the last uni I heard from too) I assumed they were going to reject me since at least in the league tables it's actually the best one I applied for, I managed to get my self an unconditional place on an Art foundation course at a nearby collage.

    So here are the possible situations...

    1. I get the B and go to DMU
    2. I get the B and do the foundation Art in the hope of going to a better university to do Architecture the following year
    3. I don't get the B and do the foundation Art in the hope of going to a better university to do Architecture the following year

    So... what do you think I should do? Obviously if I did go to DMU, I could go somewhere better for the Part 2 as well. I have been to DMU and liked the place, and the course seemed really interesting also, I'm just worried about some of the things people say about it on here, and the potential job prospects/albeit lack of (although I know that's a problem for all architecture graduates at the moment).

    Thanks, and sorry for the long, and probably boring and waffly post

    Ok... So your grades are s**t, that doesn’t mean everything. You (and everyone else) have to except that not everyone is going to get good grades.

    Usually, I would tend to agree with the retake approach, but in your case I don’t think that would help much. You are already doing an extra year and tbh I don’t think much would improve taking an additional one. Your 19 years old (I assume) and you need to finish school and move onto the next stage of your life. Staying at school will just knock you confidence.

    Generally, I don’t think much of the idea of a foundation degree. Not only is it generally consider to be a 'doss year' but it will also cost you allot of money. Firstly because you will have to pay far higher tuition fees when you start uni the year after and secondly you will have delayed your education which will cost you a years worth of potential earning. Which is not really worth it for the CHANCE of getting in at a better uni.

    Luckily for you its not all doom and gloom. Not matter how much anyone would like you to believe it, architecture is not a massively academic subject. It’s not really like any of the subjects that you have studied at Alevel so you can’t really say that because you’re not doing well at school it will be the same at uin. Architecture is very much about a process and approach to thinking ...something that believe it or not not all A* students are very good at...hell I know A* students who have dropped out !

    My advice would be to go to DMU ...if you do well, go to a bter uni for part 2 if you don't stay at DUM and enjoy a sucsessfuly (but perhaps not extroidary) career in Architecture as many others do.
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    (Original post by Clarissa!)
    Ok... So your grades are s**t, that doesn’t mean everything. You (and everyone else) have to except that not everyone is going to get good grades.

    Usually, I would tend to agree with the retake approach, but in your case I don’t think that would help much. You are already doing an extra year and tbh I don’t think much would improve taking an additional one. Your 19 years old (I assume) and you need to finish school and move onto the next stage of your life. Staying at school will just knock you confidence.

    Generally, I don’t think much of the idea of a foundation degree. Not only is it generally consider to be a 'doss year' but it will also cost you allot of money. Firstly because you will have to pay far higher tuition fees when you start uni the year after and secondly you will have delayed your education which will cost you a years worth of potential earning. Which is not really worth it for the CHANCE of getting in at a better uni.

    Luckily for you its not all doom and gloom. Not matter how much anyone would like you to believe it, architecture is not a massively academic subject. It’s not really like any of the subjects that you have studied at Alevel so you can’t really say that because you’re not doing well at school it will be the same at uin. Architecture is very much about a process and approach to thinking ...something that believe it or not not all A* students are very good at...hell I know A* students who have dropped out !

    My advice would be to go to DMU ...if you do well, go to a bter uni for part 2 if you don't stay at DUM and enjoy a sucsessfuly (but perhaps not extroidary) career in Architecture as many others do.
    advising someone to go DMU> speechless
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    I think you should improve your grades ( GCSES, Alevels ) before you even apply to uni if you want to have the best chance of going to a good uni which you will enjoy.
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    (Original post by ArchiBoi)
    advising someone to go DMU> speechless
    Did you not see it won some German award for witches in an attic, obviously a good school now.

    If I had the choice between DMU now or waiting a year and going to a better school but getting charged 9K a year for 5 years I think even I'd consider DMU.
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    (Original post by ArchiBoi)
    advising someone to go DMU> speechless
    you haven't actually given a reason why it is isn't very good other than you don't like the city. I'm not sure how you're qualified to say it isn't a very good course/university if the league table say otherwise, and you haven't actually done the course. Plus you said you applied there, but got a better offer from somewhere else, so you must have at least been considering it?
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    (Original post by TheMeters)
    you haven't actually given a reason why it is isn't very good other than you don't like the city. I'm not sure how you're qualified to say it isn't a very good course/university if the league table say otherwise, and you haven't actually done the course. Plus you said you applied there, but got a better offer from somewhere else, so you must have at least been considering it?
    My reason for it is it isn't regarded highly in the tables and it lost accreditation. The first part of this statement is my opinion from experience, and the second is fact, you can check the RIBA validation reports.

    If you want to go, go I was merely giving my opinion.
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    (Original post by TheMeters)
    you haven't actually given a reason why it is isn't very good other than you don't like the city. I'm not sure how you're qualified to say it isn't a very good course/university if the league table say otherwise, and you haven't actually done the course. Plus you said you applied there, but got a better offer from somewhere else, so you must have at least been considering it?
    It's second from last in the Guardian 41st and 25th in the Times and 21st in the Independent. That's not as bad as I thought. Every architecture student know's those tables don't count for much. Architecture schools are very much peer reviewed. We are only giving you our opinions.
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    (Original post by ArchiBoi)
    My reason for it is it isn't regarded highly in the tables and it lost accreditation. The first part of this statement is my opinion from experience, and the second is fact, you can check the RIBA validation reports.

    If you want to go, go I was merely giving my opinion.
    Do you know why it lost the accreditation? They've had a new head since 2008 so things may have improved.

    It is 21st and 25th in the independent and times respectively, as is pointed out below, might not be what you'd consider to be that high, but it doesn't seem too bad to me.

    What is your experience of DMU then? Just out of interest?

    (Original post by KeyserNI)
    It's second from last in the Guardian 41st and 25th in the Times and 21st in the Independent. That's not as bad as I thought. Every architecture student know's those tables don't count for much. Architecture schools are very much peer reviewed. We are only giving you our opinions.
    Yeah I understand that, but I'm just wondering where you/anyone else who says its crap, get that idea from if they haven't actually gone to the university themselves, or even know anybody that has.

    Also I've been trying to work out why DMU does so poor on the Guardian compared to the other tables, DMU seems to do crap in everything with the Guardian table, but not that bad on most things in the other tables.
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    (Original post by TheMeters)
    Do you know why it lost the accreditation? They've had a new head since 2008 so things may have improved.

    It is 21st and 25th in the independent and times respectively, as is pointed out below, might not be what you'd consider to be that high, but it doesn't seem too bad to me.

    What is your experience of DMU then? Just out of interest?



    Yeah I understand that, but I'm just wondering where you/anyone else who says its crap, get that idea from if they haven't actually gone to the university themselves, or even know anybody that has.

    Also I've been trying to work out why DMU does so poor on the Guardian compared to the other tables, DMU seems to do crap in everything with the Guardian table, but not that bad on most things in the other tables.
    Every architecture student compares their work to every other student in every other school when they see it. Architecture isn't a huge field we all know people that have went to other schools and over time we all build up opinions of the standard of other schools work, we all judge ourselves accordingly. We go to end of year shows, compete in competitions, read articles on the schools in the journals, know what teachers have taught where and what we thought of them. Which students get placements where.

    That's why we all know that Cambridge isn't the best school no matter the tables say, that westminster is a good school even though its not high up the tables and the university as a whole is poor and we now know that even though DeMonfort ask for 280 points you got an offer with a lot less. We don't see DeMonfort students mentioned for prizes or in the AJ or BD, the way we judge a school is to look at the work and aspire to it, that's how we judge the good schools from the bad.
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    (Original post by TheMeters)
    well for example here with http://www.ljmu.ac.uk/courses/underg...?CourseId=K100 liverpool johnmoores...
    they say they accept an access to he course either on it's own or in conjunction with other qualifications, a lot of other unis also say the same, especially ones that accept around the ABB-BBC range.

    I just would like to try and workout how much of a better course than the one at DMU doing the foundation will get me onto, so I can work out for myself if I think it's worth it or not. Not that I know what is wrong with the DMU course it seemed very interesting and well taught from the open day, but then it would do, because it's an open day and that's the impression they want to give.
    Isn't an Access to HE diploma different from a foundation course? I'm actually quite sure the Access course is different to the foundation course. The Access course is suited to those with no previous art based experience who may already have experience in another field of study. The difference between the two is minimal but I think it is still classified as different courses so you'd have to check with the uni if they also include foundation under the Access to HE as both courses are pre-degree. Most places I've looked at have a Access to HE course and a foundation course with different entry requirements.
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    (Original post by KeyserNI)
    Every architecture student compares their work to every other student in every other school when they see it. Architecture isn't a huge field we all know people that have went to other schools and over time we all build up opinions of the standard of other schools work, we all judge ourselves accordingly. We go to end of year shows, compete in competitions, read articles on the schools in the journals, know what teachers have taught where and what we thought of them. Which students get placements where.

    That's why we all know that Cambridge isn't the best school no matter the tables say, that westminster is a good school even though its not high up the tables and the university as a whole is poor and we now know that even though DeMonfort ask for 280 points you got an offer with a lot less. We don't see DeMonfort students mentioned for prizes or in the AJ or BD, the way we judge a school is to look at the work and aspire to it, that's how we judge the good schools from the bad.
    fair enough, so effectively before this thread you had no real reason to think it was bad? I mean there must be various schools that haven't won recent awards. But then how does an employer know if you come from a good school? (I guess your going to say that words gets around) Because it doesn't really matter then if your basing your opinion of a school on what the work of all the students at that school in general is like, if your specific individual work is of a high quality? Or in other words if your work is better than the average quality of work on your course.

    Also my offer is for 270 ucas points effectively, and I do have work experience in an engineering company and a pretty good portfolio imo.
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    (Original post by chenman27)
    Isn't an Access to HE diploma different from a foundation course? I'm actually quite sure the Access course is different to the foundation course. The Access course is suited to those with no previous art based experience who may already have experience in another field of study. The difference between the two is minimal but I think it is still classified as different courses so you'd have to check with the uni if they also include foundation under the Access to HE as both courses are pre-degree. Most places I've looked at have a Access to HE course and a foundation course with different entry requirements.
    yup it is, but was just making the point its not about a levels, there is a lot of schools that say they accept foundations i dont have time to look really, but i just know from when i did that they do. Problem is a lot of schools/unis atm dont have the details of the 2012 entry requirements on there sites as yet. I know DMU certainly do, but that's a bit of a moot point since I can go there without one...


    Another separate point as well, I've heard people on here on the offers thread saying that Central St Martins is a really good unviersity, but I've always discounted their architecture course because it only needs 80 ucas points to get in, anyone know if it is any good?
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    Anyone that classes CSM as a good school has either never studied architecture or else goes to CSM. It took a couple of goes to get it's RIBA accreditation and no one has ever really heard of it.

    Before this thread all I'd heard of DMU was that ArchiBoi didn't think much of it and I knew someone that left after 2nd year because he thought it was dire. Like I said you hear about good schools and you hear about students that have moved on to better schools for Part II. Lots of us have studied at different schools and forum members are at some of the best schools yet no one has said they knew someone that went to DMU that are now at a top school. Its things like that. The architects journal every year asks the partners at the biggest practises what the best schools are as they are the people hiring students, this is probably the best indicator of the most highly regarded schools irrespective of league tables, DMU isn't on it.

    In my opinion a portfolio that couldn't even get you an offer from south bank isn't something you should be using again no matter what excuse they gave or how good you think it is.
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    (Original post by KeyserNI)
    Anyone that classes CSM as a good school has either never studied architecture or else goes to CSM. It took a couple of goes to get it's RIBA accreditation and no one has ever really heard of it.

    Before this thread all I'd heard of DMU was that ArchiBoi didn't think much of it and I knew someone that left after 2nd year because he thought it was dire. Like I said you hear about good schools and you hear about students that have moved on to better schools for Part II. Lots of us have studied at different schools and forum members are at some of the best schools yet no one has said they knew someone that went to DMU that are now at a top school. Its things like that. The architects journal every year asks the partners at the biggest practises what the best schools are as they are the people hiring students, this is probably the best indicator of the most highly regarded schools irrespective of league tables, DMU isn't on it.
    But there is always going to be people who don't like a course though, I know of people who went to Oxford and didn't like it. ArchBoi doesn't appear to actually have any experience of DMU though himself (please correct me if I'm wrong). I've also heard criticism from places like Bath who apparently are too technical and not very creative and some people that went wish they'd chose another course. I've heard people say studying architecture at UCL is too intense and ruins your passion and creativity completely.

    So how do the practices decide which schools are best? Seems a bit circular, because presumably they will look at the work of the students from whoever applies and they will obviously pick up trends as to which schools create the best work/students. But surely if you go to a "crap" school and then still do work that the practices like then your going to get noticed or whatever anyway. Unless your just saying they only even look at applications if you say you went to university x, y and z, in which case that's just pure elitism and has nothing to do with actually how good the university is? Maybe I'm misunderstanding or oversimplifying things though?
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    Are you under impression that architecture doesn't suffer from elitism? Look at the top schools, Cambridge, UCL, Nottingham, Sheffield, Bath, do you notice anything? Architecture is a profession that is dominated by the middle class.

    The practises employ the students, they judge the work the students do for them. If a student is **** it reflects badly on the school. The schools at the top of the AJ 100 list are the schools that produce the best students proven in practise. You are more likely to produce good work and get a better architectural education at a better school. Some students make it from the not so good schools, more from the ok schools and the majority from the good schools.

    I believe ArchiBoi applied for DMU for Part I but turned them down. He's now at UCL, I believe he can tell good work from bad.

    Its clear from your posts and the fact you continue to argue that you don't understand how peer review works. None of us think DMU is a good school and you aren't going to change our minds so you either ignore us or listen to what we are saying.
 
 
 
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