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Opinions on the BNP watch

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    Love them
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    Like them
    2.27%
    Not particularly bothered
    6.82%
    Dont like them
    43.18%
    Hate the Nazi scum
    36.36%

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    I see them as a legitimate political party, they have seats in the European Parliament afterall. They appeal to the white working class and whilst I find them odious, I don't dismiss all their supporters as racists either. I'm very pro a BNP platform as well, I believe their ideas and concerns should be debated, not ignored.
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    (Original post by Manitude)
    But banning a political party because their unofficial ideology disagrees with your views would make you as bad as them, would it not?

    Plus if you ban them, there's a good chance that the members will fall back on the organisation closest in ideology (I guess the unofficial stuff - racism etc) to the BNP, which is not likely to be UKIP or even the Tories. Instead it's worse - potentially as bad as C 18.

    My point is - you can take the head of the hydra but it'll just grow another one. It would be my preference that we don't cut off the tame head.
    Which side of the argument do you think I am on?

    You cannot ban a political party because the majority of their members are racist. You can only take action they officially have racist policies.
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    I think it's a sad reflection on society that a party like the BNP exists; it plays off of ignorance and encourages hatred. The best way to "defeat" them (for want of a better word) is through education and tolerance. If people stop believing that foreigners are the cause of our problems and are taught to be open-minded and analytical then they will stop lapping up the lies that parties like this spew out and the party itself will fade into obscurity.
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    (Original post by Fallen)
    That is not what I am saying.
    I meant you must prosecute for their actions (so, beating someone up).
    You cannot discriminate against someone just because they belief that, say, Black people are evil, so long as they do not act on their beliefs.

    My point is that being a member of the BNP is just a sign of your ideological beliefs, and I do not think people should be disadvantaged because of that.
    If you then act on those beliefs and beat someone up, then of course you should be prosecuted.

    Is that clearer?
    I understand your point and it is a very good point but what i am saying is that, we shouldnt illegalise the BNP because it is simply their beliefs but the BNP have a profound effect on people (say Muslim's) just because of their beliefs. So my point is that it is discriminating BNP members based on their beliefs but the BNP discriminate people because of their beliefs.
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    (Original post by LadyRowena)
    I think it's a sad reflection on society that a party like the BNP exists; it plays off of ignorance and encourages hatred. The best way to "defeat" them (for want of a better word) is through education and tolerance. If people stop believing that foreigners are the cause of our problems and are taught to be open-minded and analytical then they will stop lapping up the lies that parties like this spew out and the party itself will fade into obscurity.
    As a 15 year old white working class boy, everything about the BNP apealed to me. This was due to lack of political education in school, as you say ignorance, peer pressure, and probably because of the racist views of most of my family.

    Now i am 17 and i hate the BNP, once you pay attention to the news and read up about political partys you see them for what they really are, bigoted ********s. Most of the members of the BNP dont have a clue what party they are representing and supporting.
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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    I see them as a legitimate political party, they have seats in the European Parliament afterall. They appeal to the white working class and whilst I find them odious, I don't dismiss all their supporters as racists either. I'm very pro a BNP platform as well, I believe their ideas and concerns should be debated, not ignored.
    How many other legitimate party's members go around literally beating up the opposition. John Prescott can not be used haha. You dont see the tories members beating up some working class men. Or labours member's beating up private school kids.
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    (Original post by kevR94)
    I understand your point and it is a very good point but what i am saying is that, we shouldnt illegalise the BNP because it is simply their beliefs but the BNP have a profound effect on people (say Muslim's) just because of their beliefs. So my point is that it is discriminating BNP members based on their beliefs but the BNP discriminate people because of their beliefs.
    You cannot illegalise an organisation because many of its members are racists.
    The BNP does not explicitly encourage racism. There have been some cases where they have, and they have been immediately taken to court for inciting racial hatred.

    Suppose I run a bowls club. Perhaps 95% of our members are staunch racists. If the club is just about playing bowls then there is no legal or debatable moral mandate to illegalise it.
    It is slightly less clear cut with the BNP, but regardless there is simply no legal reason to discriminate against a completely legal organisation.
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    (Original post by kevR94)
    How many other legitimate party's members go around literally beating up the opposition. John Prescott can not be used haha. You dont see the tories members beating up some working class men. Or labours member's beating up private school kids.
    Tory members have committed crimes. Labour members have committed crimes.
    Most BNP members also don't go around beating up ethnics, that is a very small minority.
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    Never ever vote them, but if people want to then that's up to them.
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    (Original post by Fallen)
    Tory members have committed crimes. Labour members have committed crimes.
    Most BNP members also don't go around beating up ethnics, that is a very small minority.
    Your bowels analogy totally makes sense and i can see what you mean but the BNP really do encourage racist hatred etc. And the majority of BNP members will have beaten up someone related to a race issue. If they havent they probably wouldnt have went for some extreme party and probably went for UKIP for example.
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    (Original post by meenu89)
    Never ever vote them, but if people want to then that's up to them.
    Do you not think the party poses as a risk to society by encouraging racial hatred?
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    (Original post by Fallen)
    Which side of the argument do you think I am on?

    You cannot ban a political party because the majority of their members are racist. You can only take action they officially have racist policies.
    Even then I would say that it would be wrong to ban them.
    If there is a desire for even one person to vote for that, then it would be undemocratic to deny them the opportunity to vote for that, even if the vast majority of the population despises them and their views.

    It wouldn't be fair to ban some parties for one reason, but then allow other parties to go unchecked when they could potentially be just as dangerous.

    If people want to vote for racism, that's their choice.
    If people want to vote for communism - that's their choice.
    I don't think it's right that anyone can say "you may no longer vote for this because we think it's wrong"

    (to answer your question, I don't know what 'side' your on and I'm not particularly bothered.)
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    (Original post by kevR94)
    Do you not think the party poses as a risk to society by encouraging racial hatred?
    Would you not think it will be 10x worse if you banned them?
    Who is going to represent the nearly 1million who voted for them in the Euro elections?
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    (Original post by kevR94)
    Your bowels analogy totally makes sense and i can see what you mean but the BNP really do encourage racist hatred etc. And the majority of BNP members will have beaten up someone related to a race issue. If they havent they probably wouldnt have went for some extreme party and probably went for UKIP for example.

    (Original post by kevR94)
    As a 15 year old white working class boy, everything about the BNP apealed to me. This was due to lack of political education in school, as you say ignorance, peer pressure, and probably because of the racist views of most of my family.

    Now i am 17 and i hate the BNP, once you pay attention to the news and read up about political partys you see them for what they really are, bigoted ********s. Most of the members of the BNP dont have a clue what party they are representing and supporting.
    Your first claim is outlandish, and simply unfounded.
    It also appears to be incompatible with your second. If most BNP supports had beaten up people due to a race issue then they would probably not be too shocked by the parties policies.

    I think this debate has come to an end, I don't think either one of us will persuade the other to any greater extent.

    The BNP is just the way of White, working class males fighting back.
    I do feel we are being marginalised, and it is almost impossible to have a sensible debate about it these days without being branded a "racist". As David Mitchell says, it is a pity that the only people you can talk to it about (the BNP) are actually racists,
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    (Original post by Manitude)
    Even then I would say that it would be wrong to ban them.
    If there is a desire for even one person to vote for that, then it would be undemocratic to deny them the opportunity to vote for that, even if the vast majority of the population despises them and their views.

    It wouldn't be fair to ban some parties for one reason, but then allow other parties to go unchecked when they could potentially be just as dangerous.

    If people want to vote for racism, that's their choice.
    If people want to vote for communism - that's their choice.
    I don't think it's right that anyone can say "you may no longer vote for this because we think it's wrong"

    (to answer your question, I don't know what 'side' your on and I'm not particularly bothered.)
    I have been saying the whole time that it is wrong to either illegalise or (as we currently have) ban BNP members from certain professions.

    So I do not really see which of my points you are addressing, since all of them have been supporting that view.


    Edit:
    Yeah, seriously, have you been reading my posts?

    Me: "You cannot ban a political party because the majority of their members are racist."
    You: "Even then I would say that it would be wrong to ban them."
    ???
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    Policy's made by a middle aged overwieght delusional racist *cough 1940s
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    (Original post by tieyourmotherdown)
    Whilst they represent concerns of a lot of people, these concerns are largely built on ignorance and basically, not worth being concerned about, so I don't take them overly seriously. Also if they genuinely want to be a serious political party, they need to drop the racism and homophobia that is just making them more irrelevant than ever.

    In essence, I don't really care for them at all.
    Their concerns aren't worth bothering about?

    Tell you what let's dump a ton of immigrants in your town, and denounce any questioning of this policy of undercutting wages, destroying community spirit and a general lack of integration by some sections of the immigrant community as 'racist'.

    The BNP is a reaction to the acceptance of record levels of immigration accepted almost unquestioningly by all three political parties and the fact that it has not been open to debate, only ridicule by 'right on' comedians and Guardian commentators. I am not for one moment a BNP supporter but I recognise that some of their issues need addressing, whether that gives the BNP credence or not, so to stop them getting more votes among disenfranchised Labour supporters.

    EDIT: Forgot to add, as political parties they are tiny. They are given far more media coverage than they should by parties trying to scaremonger people into voting for them by making the BNP to be much more scary than they actually are, when the actual result is that (viz. MEP elections) they accomplish little. What is FAR more worrying to me is the acceptance of the Greens and left-wing parties, given only soft questions by the BBC and generally seen as a 'good' thing, whereas their ideology originates from an equally extreme source and the Green Party, in its own way, is possibly one of the most extreme parties in Britain.
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    (Original post by Fallen)
    I have been saying the whole time that it is wrong to either illegalise or (as we currently have) ban BNP members from certain professions.

    So I do not really see which of my points you are addressing, since all of them have been supporting that view.


    Edit:
    Yeah, seriously, have you been reading my posts?

    Me: "You cannot ban a political party because the majority of their members are racist."
    You: "Even then I would say that it would be wrong to ban them."
    ???
    I wasn't trying to argue with you. I guess I was building on what you had already said? :dontknow:
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    Quite simply:

    British Nazi Party.
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    They certainly have their work cut out
 
 
 
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