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Opinions on the BNP watch

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    Love them
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    (Original post by j.alexanderh)
    Why do you object to corporal punishment? (Unless it's on practical grounds).
    Quoted:

    The American Psychological Association opposes the use of corporal punishment in schools, juvenile facilities, child care nurseries, and all other institutions, public or private, where children are cared for or educated. It claims that corporal punishment is violent and unnecessary, may lower self-esteem, and is liable to instil hostility and rage without reducing the undesired behaviour. The APA also states that corporal punishment is likely to train children to use physical violence

    Why would you want to instil pain on someone who would have a high pain threshold for example and continue reoffending?
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    Please vote in the pole people. It gives a good representation of the general view.
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    Social policy is incoherent, backward and at times openly racist and xenophobic. Economic policy is out of touch with reality. Like any far-right party, they play a role in forcing mainstream parties to address alienation of white working class people. Little more than a joke party, populated by unintelligent and unpleasant people.
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    (Original post by JW92)
    Social policy is incoherent, backward and at times openly racist and xenophobic. Economic policy is out of touch with reality. Like any far-right party, they play a role in forcing mainstream parties to address alienation of white working class people. Little more than a joke party, populated by unintelligent and unpleasant people.
    Ah it looks like we have found our 'flagship' response. Very well said i must say.
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    (Original post by j.alexanderh)
    Once again, you have failed to answer my question. Historical stuff doesn't count; I believe that at one time we had a culture which I can understand why people would want to defend, but I don't see it now. I want specifics: what comprises British culture?

    For example, the Japanese have their distinctive cuisine, their formal tea ceremonies, cherry blossom, flower viewing, tatami mats, a strong work ethic, a natural humility, formality and politeness, a reliable, punctual public transport system. These things pervade the country and the people in it. I can't see anything like this in England (focusing on the good points here, by the way).

    Generally Britain is a tolerant place. I don't know many other countries that could tolerate Nick Griffin and a lot of extreme Muslim groups. Traditions include self-deprecating humour, politeness, a knack for queuing, putting up with rubbish public transport, Sooty and sweep, tea, marmite, Paddington Bear, acceptance that the England football team is rubbish except for a month of madness every time the world cup comes round, etc etc (bear in mind I'm being (mostly) tongue in cheek).

    My advice is to read Notes from a Small Island by Bill Bryson it's excellent
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    Meh they are just a political party who have their own strong views i neither like nor dislike them.
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    The BNP have every right to say what they want. It's a free country.

    People are too sensitive frankly.
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    (Original post by Acerbic)
    Had you said 30 years of Thatcherite neoliberalism, I'd agree with you. But you are obviously a blinkered fool. See only the ills of thy enemy.
    Um... Pot, kettle, black?
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    (Original post by Aeschylus)
    Generally Britain is a tolerant place. I don't know many other countries that could tolerate Nick Griffin and a lot of extreme Muslim groups. Traditions include self-deprecating humour, politeness, a knack for queuing, putting up with rubbish public transport, Sooty and sweep, tea, marmite, Paddington Bear, acceptance that the England football team is rubbish except for a month of madness every time the world cup comes round, etc etc (bear in mind I'm being (mostly) tongue in cheek).
    So which of these do immigrants challenge?
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    (Original post by Fallen)
    I think it is ridiculous why you can't be in the BNP and be a policeman or whatever.
    You can argue that they are racists and won't be fair, which is fine, but then they shouldn't be a legal political party.

    Either you have to illegalise the BNP (which I wouldn't cry about, they are racists), or you need to give them the same rights as everyone else.
    Discriminating against people because of the political party they vote for is an exceptionally slippery slope.

    It should be obvious anyway, but clearly I am not a supporter of the BNP in any way.
    Absolutely - talk about making a mockery of two fundamental British rights: The freedom of association and innocent before proven guilty. It's an absolute joke.
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    (Original post by j.alexanderh)
    So which of these do immigrants challenge?
    OK disclaimer. A lot of immigrants work hard and integrate into the community.

    SOME immigrants are very intolerant and do not integrate into British society. This is not new - witness people calling for Salman Rushdie's head in the late 80s - but you have a growing ugly intolerance to free speech. Anyone who saw people protesting against the Danish Cartoons calling the 4 7/7 bombers 'fantastic four' and 'behead those who insult islam' would no doubt have been shocked.

    Again, this is not referring to all immigrants
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    I put that I'm not bothered. I'll worry about the BNP when they actually get some real MPs elected, and have some actual effect on the country. I don't think this will ever happen.

    With all that's gone on in the last ten years, the BNP has had endless opportunities to mobilise public support from various crises, but have constantly failed at doing this effectively. Nobody is interested in them, not because they are racists, but because they are crackpots.
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    (Original post by Aeschylus)
    OK disclaimer. A lot of immigrants work hard and integrate into the community.

    SOME immigrants are very intolerant and do not integrate into British society. This is not new - witness people calling for Salman Rushdie's head in the late 80s - but you have a growing ugly intolerance to free speech. Anyone who saw people protesting against the Danish Cartoons calling the 4 7/7 bombers 'fantastic four' and 'behead those who insult islam' would no doubt have been shocked.

    Again, this is not referring to all immigrants
    No, it isn't all immigrants. It is a tiny fraction of immigrants, and hence it is unfair to say immigrants in general are ruining our culture. Anyway, as far as I can see the 'defense of our culture' argument is either not well thought through, or just means 'I don't like looking at brown people'. You are welcome to other arguments against immigration, but this one particularly annoys me.
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    (Original post by planetearth)
    Quite simply:

    British Nazi Party.
    Not really. It isn't helpful to conflate all forms of fascism with Nazism, although there are Nazis involved with the BNP. There is Andrew Brons, for example, the MEP for the party who definitely has a Nazi background.

    The party is pretty much a post-modern Trojan Horse political organisation, attempting to colonise and control space left behind by other mainstream political parties in working and lower-middle class communities, and to put fascist and racist views into the mainstream, and in doing so make the racialising of social problems the norm (trying to mask their racism by mapping it onto cultural difference). Ironically, the BNP are a product of the 'official' top-down liberal multiculturalism they claim to despise. It's just another form of identity politics, used by both left and right in the past, but with a rather unpleasant ulterior motive at its core.

    Social class needs to become the main social referent once more, when dealing with these problems. Economic explanations rather than from a purely cultural point of view. After all, the working class particularly is made up of people of not only varying racial, but also religious and other cultural backgrounds. Why are liberals surprised when after years of dividing communities up according to interest groups along these lines, and have them competing for resources, when a group like the BNP appears and claims to represent the interests of white people? Fascism cloaked in 'respectable' mainstream discourse needs to be combated, and also the conditions that give rise to it. More class-based alliances and fighting together along economic lines for progressive change, rather than the increased fragmentation of communities who really have more in common than differences.
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    (Original post by j.alexanderh)
    Once again, you have failed to answer my question. Historical stuff doesn't count; I believe that at one time we had a culture which I can understand why people would want to defend, but I don't see it now. I want specifics: what comprises British culture?

    For example, the Japanese have their distinctive cuisine, their formal tea ceremonies, cherry blossom, flower viewing, tatami mats, a strong work ethic, a natural humility, formality and politeness, a reliable, punctual public transport system. These things pervade the country and the people in it. I can't see anything like this in England (focusing on the good points here, by the way).
    As much as it's often portrayed as being crap British cuisine is actually pretty good, it follows different trends to most other foods from around the world, focusing more on quality of ingredients than complexity or intricacy, but there is a lot more to British cuisine than chippies, and if you source the good stuff, it's as good as you get anywhere else.

    And Britain has a very strong case to produce some of the best beers around, this is completely different to the binge drinking culture that isn't so good, the quality of some of the ales and stouts etc...that you get around the UK is regarded by many to be some of the best in the world. And although British wine is generally ignored and the wines from Europe and elsewhere are more common, the UK has been used to produce wine since the Roman times, and in more recent years has been producing particularly high quality wine and even champagne (or sparkling wine I suppose). And although less exciting to most people I expect the cheese industry is also very strong, producing a huge range of cheeses.

    Look into popular culture and the music produced by the country is popular internationally, not so much in the states where they generally rely upon themselves, but throughout Europe and elsewhere in the world.

    Science is also pretty big over here and quite a bit of development involves our universities, scientists or facilities, as well as many of the most significant scientific figures of the past being British (although if the past doesn't count then I wont include them).

    And how can I forget football? It may seem like a pretty mundane thing to you, I don't know, but the premier league is one of the most watched, if not the most watched footballing league in the world, and of course Wimbledon being one of the biggest tournaments in Tennis is another British held tournament, okay we haven't won it in a while, but it's ours.

    Britain is also known to be a very tolerant nation, we're known to complain, be very melancholy and our people are quite individualistic, but a very tolerant nation nonetheless, and this is one of the things which has contributed to losing control of immigration.

    A significant part of British culture of the past has been the exploration of the world, resulting in the British Empire, the largest empire in history, and little snippets from other cultures would be taken and contributed to our own, or would inspire something new going on, it's when our culture is being drowned by the others coming in where it's gone too far.

    This is all stuff happening now, where I guess the most significant chunks of our culture do come from the past, with the British empire, folklore and everything else historical that went on, but there's clearly a culture to Britain, every country has a culture. Like I said, many of these things are generally overlooked because they're relatively day to day, underestimated or taken for granted by the majority of the population, but it's difficult to appreciate your culture because of a lot of culture is relatively mundane when you live with it all the time.

    Also, I heard the English language was pretty big, no?
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    (Original post by heyimbored)
    As much as it's often portrayed as being crap British cuisine is actually pretty good, it follows different trends to most other foods from around the world, focusing more on quality of ingredients than complexity or intricacy, but there is a lot more to British cuisine than chippies, and if you source the good stuff, it's as good as you get anywhere else.

    And Britain has a very strong case to produce some of the best beers around, this is completely different to the binge drinking culture that isn't so good, the quality of some of the ales and stouts etc...that you get around the UK is regarded by many to be some of the best in the world. And although British wine is generally ignored and the wines from Europe and elsewhere are more common, the UK has been used to produce wine since the Roman times, and in more recent years has been producing particularly high quality wine and even champagne (or sparkling wine I suppose). And although less exciting to most people I expect the cheese industry is also very strong, producing a huge range of cheeses.

    Look into popular culture and the music produced by the country is popular internationally, not so much in the states where they generally rely upon themselves, but throughout Europe and elsewhere in the world.

    Science is also pretty big over here and quite a bit of development involves our universities, scientists or facilities, as well as many of the most significant scientific figures of the past being British (although if the past doesn't count then I wont include them).

    And how can I forget football? It may seem like a pretty mundane thing to you, I don't know, but the premier league is one of the most watched, if not the most watched footballing league in the world, and of course Wimbledon being one of the biggest tournaments in Tennis is another British held tournament, okay we haven't won it in a while, but it's ours.

    Britain is also known to be a very tolerant nation, we're known to complain, be very melancholy and our people are quite individualistic, but a very tolerant nation nonetheless, and this is one of the things which has contributed to losing control of immigration.

    A significant part of British culture of the past has been the exploration of the world, resulting in the British Empire, the largest empire in history, and little snippets from other cultures would be taken and contributed to our own, or would inspire something new going on, it's when our culture is being drowned by the others coming in where it's gone too far.

    This is all stuff happening now, where I guess the most significant chunks of our culture do come from the past, with the British empire, folklore and everything else historical that went on, but there's clearly a culture to Britain, every country has a culture. Like I said, many of these things are generally overlooked because they're relatively day to day, underestimated or taken for granted by the majority of the population, but it's difficult to appreciate your culture because of a lot of culture is relatively mundane when you live with it all the time.

    Also, I heard the English language was pretty big, no?
    Ah, but the culture thing isn't my main point (I was playing devil's advocate to see what you said). What I really want to know is: how does immigration threaten any of this? Are Arabs diminishing our scientific output? Are Orientals causing the Premier League to become a laughing stock? Are North Africans clamping down on our scientific output? Are the Eastern Europeans causing the collapse of the music industry? No. Even if you want to complain about intolerant Muslims, they are a tiny minority and I believe we have more to worry about from British people tolerance-wise than immigrants.
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    (Original post by j.alexanderh)
    No, it isn't all immigrants. It is a tiny fraction of immigrants, and hence it is unfair to say immigrants in general are ruining our culture. Anyway, as far as I can see the 'defense of our culture' argument is either not well thought through, or just means 'I don't like looking at brown people'. You are welcome to other arguments against immigration, but this one particularly annoys me.
    It's a tiny fraction but they are seen as justified by many

    http://news.scotsman.com/uk/77-bombi...y-a.2798950.jp

    The other one is that we can't keep accepting economic immigrants in their current number. There are already massive strains on social housing, benefits and public transport, especially in the south east. And personally I would rather a fairer and more equal society with better job security, rather than knowing my employer could just hire a boatload of immigrants who will undercut wages and do my job; good for their quarterly profits but not for anyone who isn't a CEO
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    (Original post by j.alexanderh)
    Ah, but the culture thing isn't my main point (I was playing devil's advocate to see what you said). What I really want to know is: how does immigration threaten any of this? Are Arabs diminishing our scientific output? Are Orientals causing the Premier League to become a laughing stock? Are North Africans clamping down on our scientific output? Are the Eastern Europeans causing the collapse of the music industry? No. Even if you want to complain about intolerant Muslims, they are a tiny minority and I believe we have more to worry about from British people tolerance-wise than immigrants.
    Granted that not everything is effected, but quite a lot of the popular culture is. If you let immigration get out of control then music of those cultures overpowers the British music, theatre from these cultures overpowers what we have, film, television (things I forgot about last night). The foreign cuisine comes in and overpowers the British cuisine, which is already happening, how often do people go out to a restaurant for an English meal? (pub food doesn't really count).

    Also, many of the independent business' producing the traditional British beers, cheeses etc...struggle for business because the immigrants coming into our country don't integrate themselves into our community, and don't want these things.

    I'm not against immigration at all, I think that a controlled amount of immigration is a good thing and can contribute to our culture, which by it's nature does take inspiration from the rest of the world, and can make the country a better place. But you can't get this with immigration at the level that we see it, immigrants should be allowed into the country if they have something to contribute, whether it be in skilled jobs (although they shouldn't be allowed to undercut British workers), or scientific knowledge, or something from their culture. Although the BNP take things a little further, this is essentially what they want, immigrants who contribute to society in a good way. This way, I'd say they're more likely to integrate themselves into the community instead of just grouping together and creating huge divides in community, and you get a more multicultural society where the British culture is still embraced.
 
 
 
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