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    Good luck Mr.Clegg!
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    But so far nobody has given a reasonable way to stop that. All it's been so far is the usual rich bashing, oh they're rich so must be dim and obviously cheated to get where they are. We obviously want to create a society based on merit, but how is bashing the rich simply for being rich going to solve that?
    The OP showed a graph that had the % of certain high class proffesions that attended an independant school. How is that relevant to the argument? If there was corresponding evidence that showed that the rich got lower grades and yet still got these jobs then yes I'd agree, but all that shows is those who go to better schools are more likely to get better jobs, which is kind of obvious.
    This exactly.
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    You can't stop it. An integral part of business is to do with your connections. Those with more friends in high places (so to speak) will do better in business. Regardless you still need some brains to do something with those connections.
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    Because private schools are better than state schools.. it's obvious.
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    (Original post by CharlotteM/)
    They could just abolish private schools. That would stop it. Why should some people get a significantly better education than the rest of us? All it does is perpetuate the class system.
    Because they can afford it?

    One of the issues raised was connections. Abolishing private schools will not change this. If the parents have connections, you can't stop them from using them.


    Would you also ban luxury cars? Why should some people drive significantly better cars than the rest of us? All it does it perpetuate the class system.

    If private schools were abolished, the wealthier parents would just pay for private tutors or send their children to boarding schools abroad.

    It seems counterproductive to ban schools that produce good results. The solution is not to ban private schools, but to improve state education.
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    (Original post by Hopple)
    Whilst not many people would disagree that giving an imbecile with well-connected (rich?) parents a job over a genius without such financial connections is wrong, how can it be stopped? Arguably Clegg himself got to where he is due to his background (Cameron too), the speaker of the house was chosen by Labour due to his wife's influence over him, the Milibands probably had the same contacts as one another, and the Lords have quite a few members who have effectively paid for their seat.

    Do you anonymise all applications? Would this stunt progress in that those who have shown they can get along with people already in an industry aren't as likely to get in as before?

    Or is there nothing to worry about? The graph below shows that 'class' is the most important factor in a child's ability by the age of 10. In that case, it isn't that people with connections are being given the advantage because of that, rather they are better educated. Then we ought to focus more on closing that gap as it is probably having the biggest impact on who gets what job.



    Besides, how do you clamp down on an activity so common that recruiters openly set aside time for 'networking'?
    I agree especially with the images, plus can tell the milibands got connection because they went to my secondary and flopped.
    And i'm sturggling myself, but somethings like a programme called social mobility foundation has helped out, i got a mentor and now a connection who works for Swiss Re and shes been talking to people in the city for me . And they helped me get work experience at Barclays and got more connections now
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    (Original post by ilickbatteries)

    Surely you must see the problem with jobs based on who you know rather than what you know?

    The data presented has not demonstrated this is the reason for there being a high % of private school pupils in the professions listed.

    It completely trashes the concept of working hard to get places. That's what our society, IMO, should be built on. Anyone with the intelligence and the ability should be able to get a top job, who you know shouldn't factor into it.

    I totally agree, but the data has not demonstrated that connections is the reason. There could be other factors...like better exam grades?

    As for the jobs, yes I see your point. Usually, a better school means a better job. However as far as I can see those statistics in the graphic seem to show that high ability means less than social class.

    It could just mean that parents who send their children to private schools 'expect' their children to become doctors etc, they push them towards professional careers because they paid for their education.

    The statistics alone don't prove that high ability mean less than social class. They suggest a correlation between social class and the child's academic (?) performance. Maybe the richer parents send the kids to private schools, get them a tutor, buy them more books etc


    Really, all I'm saying is that class and "who you know" shouldn't be a factor.

    The statistics give no evidence that connections/who you know are a factor. They simply state that in some professions, there is a high % of privately educated people and the graph shows that higher social class is related to higher academic (?)performance.


    Unfortunately, it is. When the low ability/high class kids are doing better than the high ability/low class kids, there is a severe social problem.

    Maybe the standards of education for low class children should be raised so they can match the high class children?

    A completely disproportionate amount of high court judges, top medics, barristers, MPs, etc are from private schools.

    There could be manyvarious reasons for this. The statistics tell us how many are from private schools, but they don't tell us why this is the case

    As someone who is of a low social class and reasonably high ability, I find it disgusting that someone from a higher class who isn't as clever as me will go further in life.

    That is not necessarily the case, the figures are an average. If you work hard and are exceptional, you will exceed the level of average for your social class and ability.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    Off the top of my head there are a few good policies you could adopt to achieve this:

    1) More scholarships at private schools for the poor.

    Agree, for the poor and academically able. This would be really good for bright children of working class families and for society as a whole

    2) Bring back more Grammar schools.

    Agree, great idea. Need more grammar schools for bright children.

    3) Make government departments and large companies take on a certain quota of working class people for internships.

    Why? Shouldn't internships be offered based on merit, rather than class? Surely they should be offered to the most qualified/highest achieving people?

    5) Fund more places on government volunteering schemes for working class people - Again many rich families can afford to send their children off to Panama or Nepal for the summer working on volunteer projects that look very good on their children's CVs. In comparision working class families simply can't afford this and it impacts negatively on their children's prospects of employment when you compare them to the middle class candiate who's CV is full of foreign volunteering experience and internships.

    Oh come on, this is BS. Everyone knows those gap yahs don't add anything to the CV and it's clear if you volunteered in Africa, it's because you paid for it. Volunteering in the UK is just as good for your CV than doing it abroad. It's a myth that volunteering abroad looks more impressive. Everyone knows it's often (but not always) an excuse for a holiday.

    I do agree that volunteering should be encouraged and helps your CV, but nobody needs special schemes (nor to go to Africa) to do this. If you want to volunteer, it's not that hard to get off your arse and look for opportunities. Nothing is stopping working class people from volunteering any more than middle class people. It may not be abroad, but they can still volunteer


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    (Original post by No Future)
    Because they can afford it?

    One of the issues raised was connections. Abolishing private schools will not change this.

    Would you also ban luxury cars? Why should some people drive significantly better cars than the rest of us? All it does it perpetuate the class system.

    If private schools were abolished, the wealthier parents could pay for private tutors.
    Abolishing private schools, as a private school leaver, would help a great deal. They definitely provide an advantage academically and provide a significant advantage in regards to networking. It would level the playing field, although I'm more inclined to converting fee-paying private schools to selective (on ability) grammar schools up and down the country than abolishing them and converting them to comprehensives in order to continue to provide opportunity for the academically inclined without basing education on wealth.

    Private Tutors can't do as much with a poor student as a private school can, particularly with networking and social segregation. Not to mention they can stack up much more expensive than a private school per hour depending on the school and tutor.

    When luxury sports cars become a prime cause of success (rather than a symbol of success) on par with private education I'd look into reform there as well. Until then, luxury sports cars go free.
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    (Original post by limetang)
    You can't stop it. An integral part of business is to do with your connections. Those with more friends in high places (so to speak) will do better in business. Regardless you still need some brains to do something with those connections.
    This.
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    I don't think it can be completely stopped but it can be reduced by things like selection/interviews for all jobs or even internships.
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    (Original post by Fusilero)
    Abolishing private schools, as a private school leaver, would help a great deal. They definitely provide an advantage academically and provide a significant advantage in regards to networking. It would level the playing field, although I'm more inclined to converting fee-paying private schools to selective (on ability) grammar schools up and down the country than abolishing them and converting them to comprehensives in order to continue to provide opportunity for the academically inclined without basing education on wealth.
    They do provide an advantage academically, but I disagree that they necessarily provide an advantage in networking. What networking opportunities did you gain from your school? Maybe my school was different, but this really wasn't the case.

    The very rich would just send their children to international boarding schools if private schools here were abolished
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    (Original post by TheFatController)
    This makes my rage go through the roof.
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    Why should some people get better cars than the rest of us? Why should some people get better houses? TVs? People are free to spend their money on what they want.

    What you could do is say that all children have to attend a state school. But that still doesn't rule out the rich paying for extra tution for their children. You can't make it illegal to pay for tuition of any kind.


    Interesting idea, but how do you define someone as working class? Household income? The area they live in? Where they have lived previously?
    I see no problem with tying it to the same regime as EMA's and Student Loan applications. Namely that if you family has an income of less than £25k p/a you're from the lowest economic class and thus you'd qualify for such a scheme. I just feel that the government does so much to try and help supposedly disadvantaged communities within the UK that they totally ignore the statistically largest one, namely working class white Britain.
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    Would love it to happen but...can't possibly count on Clegg. :dry:
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    Interesting fact: 7% of the population attend private schools, half the cabinet did.:eek:
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    It wont be easy to stop, but it can certainly be made harder to use connections too such an extent, especially in places such as the medical practice as the gov't runs the vast majority of hospitals and pays most of the doctors and can introduce internal rules, but you'll never be able to stop someone for instance at a major corparation helping a person they know applicantion being looked at more favourably due to their influence. But a possible tax cut (or some other incentive) for companies who give greater opputuinities to people from disadvantaged backgrounds would be possible way to come good on this promise.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    I see no problem with tying it to the same regime as EMA's and Student Loan applications. Namely that if you family has an income of less than £25k p/a you're from the lowest economic class and thus you'd qualify for such a scheme. I just feel that the government does so much to try and help supposedly disadvantaged communities within the UK that they totally ignore the statistically largest one, namely working class white Britain.
    Why is the colour of their skin relevant? Isn't the idea about creating opportunities for all working class people to succeed?
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    (Original post by S1L3NTPR3Y)
    It wont be easy to stop, but it can certainly be made harder to use connections too such an extent, especially in places such as the medical practice as the gov't runs the vast majority of hospitals and pays most of the doctors and can introduce internal rules
    In what way are medics abusing their connections?
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    (Original post by No Future)
    They do provide an advantage academically, but I disagree that they necessarily provide an advantage in networking. What networking opportunities did you gain from your school? Maybe my school was different, but this really wasn't the case.

    The very rich would just send their children to international boarding schools if private schools here were abolished
    I managed to arrange quite a fair bit of work experience, volunteering and actual paid work through contacts made at my school. I'm also still friends with quite a lot of rather ambitious people at top Universities which may come in handy one day if I ever needed to give one of my children work experience in a field. I didn't make friends with them for that reason but it's all part of the package with going to a private school.

    I've always felt I didn't quite deserve to go to a private school. It gave a massive advantage in terms of academia, work experience and everything else. At primary school (I went to a state primary) there were several people who were much better academically and socially than me but they've all fallen by the wayside for the most part, failed to achieve their dreams and are either stuck in some dead end job, on benefits or otherwise wasting their time.

    Naturally, if someone asked whether to send their child to a private school (or whether or not I would), I would heartily recommend it for the exact aforementioned reasons I wish to see the institutions that gave me such an advantage destroyed.
 
 
 
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