Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Very difficult one. Nepotism is apparently unjust to those who don't have connections, yet entirely understandable; if all special relationships between people were to be ignored and everything done strictly on merit, it would be almost inhuman. This is especially true of the "pushy" parents so often derided.

    Theodore Dalrymple, a retired doctor and journalist who has no children of his own, said something like: "Are parents expected to treat their children as one out of a field of many equals, with no more or less concern than anyone else, and not attempt to secure advantages or the best possible future for them?" It rings true.

    It's certainly possible to put barriers in the way of carrying this to excess; I support the open advertising of intern work, for example. The only way to enforce a ban on class or family contacts having any influence would be to take every child at birth and put them in communitarian Equality Machines, run by robots that could not recognise one from another. Who knows- the technology may exist one day...
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by No Future)
    A better chance at what?
    Of a successful application for work experience in a hospital or other medical experience, due to the application being supported by a person who can vouch for them.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by S1L3NTPR3Y)
    Of a successful application for work experience in a hospital or other medical experience, due to the application being supported by a person who can vouch for them.
    You don't need any medical contacts to get work experience for med school
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fusilero)
    Guess what? You're also an average Briton.

    You can't just call the people who hold opposite views to yours idiots. Well, you can but it's... unsportsmanlike.
    Yea, but I have a long list of reasons to justify being better than everyone else.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    While I do think the "its who you know what not you know" thing is true, I also think it isn't THAT important.
    Unpaid internships are much bigger issue IMO.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Bleh... In my (limited) experience, that's really just a fancy way of saying "socialising".

    The only way it would help you get a job is by helping you find out more about what a particular job entails, or helping you learn of the existence of certain types of job (by meeting the people who do them), rather than a case of "Oh yeah I met this imbecile at a networking event - I now really want to give him the job in preference to the genius who also applied".
    I've been told that if you chat to an employee, name drop them at your interview

    There's an 'innocent' reason to do so, as in if you have spoken to an employee and feel you want the job, then it's going to be a more informed decision as you have inside information. But then who gets to meet the higher up people?
    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Do you think that "closing the gap" per se, is the main priority here? Or do you think the priority is, more specifically, raising the teaching standards and hard-work culture of those institutions generally attended by the working class population, to match those of independent schools?
    Oh, I was just throwing it out there. But since you ask, I think raising teaching standards would close the gap, and that should be the primary method. Perhaps too it is self perpetuating - if you feel you have less of a chance to get somewhere in life because your background isn't as good as another's, you are more likely to not bust your balls to get there.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    What no one seems to have the balls to say is that perhaps the rich are the most capable of doing these jobs or are the ones with the ambition to actually do them.

    If you've had a private education that pushed you to your limits and parents who worked damn hard to get where they are and are intelligent and are thus rich then chances are you are going have been instilled with a strong work ethic, will have been given a broader education (and not just in the academic school sense) and will have been given more opportunities to develop yourself.

    This idea that because someones from a rich family they must have bought there way into a good job is exaggerated way too much. More likely they brought themselves a better education and more opportunities for development which them made them more likely to get good jobs.

    And before I'm neg repped into oblivion I didn't go to a private school nor do I come from a wealthy background.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CJ99)
    What no one seems to have the balls to say is that perhaps the rich are the most capable of doing these jobs or are the ones with the ambition to actually do them.

    If you've had a private education that pushed you to your limits and parents who worked damn hard to get where they are and are intelligent and are thus rich then chances are you are going have been instilled with a strong work ethic, will have been given a broader education (and not just in the academic school sense) and will have been given more opportunities to develop yourself.

    This idea that because someones from a rich family they must have bought there way into a good job is exaggerated way too much. More likely they brought themselves a better education and more opportunities for development which them made them more likely to get good jobs.

    And before I'm neg repped into oblivion I didn't go to a private school nor do I come from a wealthy background.
    Well said sir. Blunt, but sometimes you need to be. Repped.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    While I do think the "its who you know what not you know" thing is true, I also think it isn't THAT important.
    Unpaid internships are much bigger issue IMO.
    True. Unpaid internships give a massive advantage to the wealthy or those with people with wealth willing to fund their unpaid internships.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I agree completely..

    There's too much obsession with public school statistics. Many of my friends at Uni went to private schools and they were initially afraid of saying for fear of negative reaction. How terrible that we live in a society where people expect to be hated just because their parents happened to be well off.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hopple)
    I've been told that if you chat to an employee, name drop them at your interview

    There's an 'innocent' reason to do so, as in if you have spoken to an employee and feel you want the job, then it's going to be a more informed decision as you have inside information. But then who gets to meet the higher up people?
    Really? I don't claim to be an expert, but I personally don't think I'd ever do such a thing, and would have advised other people not to as well.

    An interviewer can't really penalise you for not knowing the names of insignificant employees who work for that institution. But if I were an interviewer and someone name-dropped, it'd immediately make me wary of the fact that they might be a (forgive the reference) Draco Malfoy-like character, hoping to be given preferential treatment just because they've met a couple of people, and it'd immediately make a bad impression.

    If you wanted to show that you are well-informed, I would have thought it'd be a better idea to state and discuss the information that you have, rather than simply state the name of the person who gave you this information.

    That's just my opinion though. I'm not saying contacts aren't useful, I just don't think they're that useful in the manner you've described - not enough to help the imbecile get the job, anyway.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CharlotteM/)
    They could just abolish private schools. That would stop it. Why should some people get a significantly better education than the rest of us? All it does is perpetuate the class system.
    Because I don't want to have to mix with the council housed immigrant scum. Plus I would like to be taught by competant teachers and get appropriate attention in a small class size, and then go to Cambridge.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dynasty)
    Because I don't want to have to mix with the council housed immigrant scum. Plus I would like to be taught by competant teachers and get appropriate attention in a small class size, and then go to Cambridge.
    Competent Teachers exist in the state sector, depending on the area and subject class size can vary heavily and many state school students do go to Cambridge. If you were competent at your entry exam you could always go to a grammar school as well.

    Mingling with 'Council-Housed Immigrant Scum', on the other hand, cannot be helped. It might be a learning experience for you to mix with these 'Council-Housed Immigrant Scum'. Make you a better person before you die.

    You could also get home schooled, if you felt up to that.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hopple)
    Arguably Clegg himself got to where he is due to his background (Cameron too)
    Didn't we all? Our skills, morals and work ethic are directly related to how we are brought up and what influences are placed upon us. Someone from a political family may see the good in politicians and the nature of their work, and thus aspire to be one too; people who attend the best public schools are imbued with a solid work ethic and other skills.

    Who you know may well get you the first foot on the ladder, but it will not make you Prime Minister. Or Deputy Prime Minister, for that matter. But more importantly than that, you cannot pretend that the skills which a person's background gives him are irrelevant: I don't want a Prime Minister who might have been great had he had better parents, I want a Prime Minister who is great.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Cue the thought police, cctv cameras at every sporting event and function connected remotely to 'The Office of Fairness', Fines for people that recommend people to internships.

    Life is a recipricol business where not only the academics get ahead and make the great leaders etc. Look at Churchill, his mother worked damn hard to get him where he was! Oh and read War and Peace! Great book... lot's about influence and favours in there. Never done them any harm..
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    While I do think the "its who you know what not you know" thing is true, I also think it isn't THAT important.
    Unpaid internships are much bigger issue IMO.
    Yeah, the OP misses the point of what Clegg's trying to do
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    If you wanted to show that you are well-informed, I would have thought it'd be a better idea to state and discuss the information that you have, rather than simply state the name of the person who gave you this information.

    That's just my opinion though. I'm not saying contacts aren't useful, I just don't think they're that useful in the manner you've described - not enough to help the imbecile get the job, anyway.
    Well, you'd discuss that as well, but certainly having met someone on the inside would help. The higher ranking the person you have spoken to would mean your views are better informed and so on. It wasn't as if name dropping would be a secret code word to automatically get the job, but it'd help. It's just a more subtle form of it that I thought I'd mention - if they were giving an imbecile a job, they wouldn't bother with the interview

    (Original post by L i b)
    Didn't we all? Our skills, morals and work ethic are directly related to how we are brought up and what influences are placed upon us. Someone from a political family may see the good in politicians and the nature of their work, and thus aspire to be one too; people who attend the best public schools are imbued with a solid work ethic and other skills.

    Who you know may well get you the first foot on the ladder, but it will not make you Prime Minister. Or Deputy Prime Minister, for that matter. But more importantly than that, you cannot pretend that the skills which a person's background gives him are irrelevant: I don't want a Prime Minister who might have been great had he had better parents, I want a Prime Minister who is great.
    True, but that's only one end of it. Why not try and create a system where all those who can be great do become great? The system isn't 'fine the way it is' just because it does produce great people presently.
    (Original post by No Future)
    Yeah, the OP misses the point of what Clegg's trying to do
    The unpaid internships are the easy thing. If Whitehall's made transparent we'll know. It's whether or not the other part of what he's proposing is viable that I wanted to discuss.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CharlotteM/)
    They could just abolish private schools. That would stop it. Why should some people get a significantly better education than the rest of us? All it does is perpetuate the class system.
    The class system is a poor excuse for lax education standards...For a period of time (specifically, when the school bursary and her income left her with a financial shortfall) my single parent, working class mum held down two jobs working 7 days a week to send me to private school... if private schools were abolished, she'd have been forced to send me to the local sinkhole comp with the kids whose parents didn't give a toss about their education.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Unpaid internships and the obsession with London are the two most damning road blocks to increased social mobility, frankly.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    I guess he forgot to tell Lib Dem MPs to stop offering expenses only internships before the release of his paper.
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the PM's proposal to cut tuition fees for some courses?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.