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Nick Clegg to end 'Who you know' culture watch

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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    Says Nick Clegg, Westminster School alumnus. :facepalm2:
    So unless you've been to a comp school you're not allowed to mention social mobility?
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    (Original post by AP1989)
    So unless you've been to a comp school you're not allowed to mention social mobility?
    Of all the people in government he is one of the last suitable candidates for promoting social mobility. There are Tories who worked their way up from the bottom to become members of this country's legislature. Liam Fox, for example.

    I would rather have them promote this matter than some silver-spoon Westminster schooled demi-princeling.
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    (Original post by foldingstars45)
    i think it's a huge problem - i'm really struggling to get any relevant medical work experience at the moment because i don't know ANYBODY who could help me out.
    but yeah, i agree with you, i don't believe that it can be stopped.
    No-one I know encountered this problem, we had no medical connections whatsoever and found experience fine. It's more about persistence. Even if you have a useless trust with no desire for volunteers not all experience has to be directly relevant.
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    Of all the people in government he is one of the last suitable candidates for promoting social mobility. There are Tories who worked their way up from the bottom to become members of this country's legislature. Liam Fox, for example.

    I would rather have them promote this matter than some silver-spoon Westminster schooled demi-princeling.
    Well Fox wasn't the one releasing a paper on the matter.

    Clegg admitted that his past is wrong so he wants to fix the future. We all know how it works in reality, but instead of just ignoring it at least he's recognised it openly.
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    Just another desperate attempt to get the lib dems a scrap of integrity back...

    He might as well accept he has ****ed up the lid dem party. In the next election those in favour of the cuts will vote Tory, and those against them will vote Labour, so where does that leave little cleggy.
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    (Original post by ilickbatteries)
    Are you mad?

    Why should someone who knows someone get an internship ahead of better candidates?

    Who you know, rather than what you know, is the first step away from anything meritocratic.

    You'd be fuming if you didn't get into uni or didn't get a job you wanted because the Vice Chancellor's golf buddy's son was given your place or your employer's cousins daughter got the job.
    Networking is a skill in itself. You can be the best candidate in the world, but if you don't send out a CV you're not going to get a job. Sending out a blind CV is then worse than applying for a job that's available, which isn't as good as having a personal recommendation from someone else - someone within the company that will partly take responsibility for the hire.

    People starting a company have the same problem. For example if you know a director at tesco it's far easier to get to sit in front of someone at tesco who will look at your product and consider taking it onboard than it is if you have to send out a blind email.

    Life's a combination of who and what you know. You can't get anywhere if you don't know anyone and you can't get anywhere if you don't know anything. It's not going to change. You can't overcome the basic human social nature, and wanting to help friends/family/people you know over strangers.
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    The silly thing is, is that supermarkets, local councils and NHS trusts are the worst offenders for nepotism in my experience.
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    (Original post by Persephone9)
    Just so you know, caring work experience (eg. volunteering in a care home, hospice or with children) is just as important at shadowing a doctor. Also, sometimes your GP can help you get some work ex in hospitals or other primary care trusts, but med schools do realise that it can be difficult to get hospital based work ex with no contacts.
    I know about the care-related experience, and I'm struggling with that too! I have no money for a CRB check, and even to volunteer at many places where I live, you have to go through an application and job-type interview!
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    (Original post by No Future)
    Sorry, but you don't have to 'know' anyone to get medical work experience. This is a misleading statement.

    I didn't know anyone beforehand, I just contacted a lot of people and applied for lots of jobs to get my work experience.
    You do, many places are just like 'no' as soon as you tell them what you want. If you know somebody, they can arrange it for you, etc.
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    actually its very simple , at this age is not so much of social class rather then wealth . A blue blood lord may not be better then a hardworking working millionaire.
    the actual fact is that when you are at the lower tier of income . You can only spend so much while those with more disposable income have more to spend on "extra stuff" like tution

    end of the day social mobility is still there is your are a bright low income student. but if you have poor grade and low income , then you are at the bad end of the stick and more need to be done to help them

    such as a nation-wide dedicated low income tuition service. Which can perhaps make use of smart low income student and give them a decent pay which also help them alleviate their financial status

    1 stone 2 bird
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    (Original post by kevin6767)
    Yes because he didn't use his private education to build contacts at all and he definitely didn't use Daddy's wallet to break into an internship with the EU. Maybe he will stop his Lib Dem MP's offering unpaid internships soon then? Or will they be rebranded as constituency volunteers? Sending Nick Clegg to sort out social mobility is like David Cameron telling someone on benefits he understands how hard it must be financially. Nick Clegg just needs to stop talking. If he had an ounce of intergity he would have resigned when he betrayed a generation of young people.
    They've already done that.
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    (Original post by Hopple)
    Whilst not many people would disagree that giving an imbecile with well-connected (rich?) parents a job over a genius without such financial connections is wrong, how can it be stopped? Arguably Clegg himself got to where he is due to his background (Cameron too), the speaker of the house was chosen by Labour due to his wife's influence over him, the Milibands probably had the same contacts as one another, and the Lords have quite a few members who have effectively paid for their seat.

    Do you anonymise all applications? Would this stunt progress in that those who have shown they can get along with people already in an industry aren't as likely to get in as before?

    Or is there nothing to worry about? The graph below shows that 'class' is the most important factor in a child's ability by the age of 10. In that case, it isn't that people with connections are being given the advantage because of that, rather they are better educated. Then we ought to focus more on closing that gap as it is probably having the biggest impact on who gets what job.



    Besides, how do you clamp down on an activity so common that recruiters openly set aside time for 'networking'?
    It is a fair enough proposal. I know a complete imbecile (a good one...) who has had two jobs in his whole life, each of which were given to him by his mum and dad respectively. Each of them work where he worked. Without, I feel, he would never have got a job. I had to keep on asking, asking and asking for several months in order to get a job, whereas he got one simply because of who he knew.

    So for that reason, Clegg is goddamn right. This sort of culture is just unfair.
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    (Original post by Mithra)
    They've already done that.
    Not this year, and he himself has had (probably mutliple) unpaid interns for at least 4 years. I'll add these links to the OP too.
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    (Original post by foldingstars45)
    I know about the care-related experience, and I'm struggling with that too! I have no money for a CRB check, and even to volunteer at many places where I live, you have to go through an application and job-type interview!
    I guess you'll just have to keep persevering then. A lot of places which want CRB checks will either cover the cost of it themselves, or allow you to use a recent one, so really you're only paying a £31 to cover the majority of your work ex. If you really can't afford it, can't you borrow it of your parents and pay them back at another time?
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    (Original post by Ocassus)
    Anyway, i said the graph explicitly makes the implication that ALL private school pupils will overtake their state counterparts, a statement which is quite frankly falsified and plainly untrue
    Maybe it's so obvious the graph didn't include
    'not every single pupil from the four groups will progress like this'

    ??

    Every heard of 'average' ??
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    I really wish that the government would stop implying that all people at private school have endless connections.

    I might have been lucky enough to have parents who sacrificed a lot to pay for my education, but it doesn't change the fact that they live in a fairly isolated town a long way from London and don't really know anyone who could get me an internship. I'm still only the child of an admin clerk and a data analyst, and would struggle to break into politics, think-tanks, civil service, banking, journalism or city law.

    The closest I've got to 'connections' is that I got minimum-wage work doing the post at the law firm my mum works from which I managed to work my way up to secretarial admin in the Wills department. The kids of the firm's partners were the ones who got to go and sit in on client meetings and go to see exciting court cases.

    I guess this forms part of my motivation to become a social worker: I want to do something 'worthwhile' but I also want to do something that I feel I actually stand a chance of getting into because of what I can offer and not who my parents are.

    ---------

    I think the best step the government could feasibly take is to outlaw all of those 3/6/12 month unpaid internships with companies that are so widely advertised. It is slave labour and excludes the poor far more than a lack of connections. It is possible to network without the help of nepotism, but you need to actually be able to get your foot in the door, which these kind of schemes prevent. My family are not poor but even I couldn't afford to spend half a year working unpaid in London in order to break into a sector.

    Irony that so many of these unpaid internships are in charities and human rights organisations...
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    (Original post by boucy)
    actually its very simple , at this age is not so much of social class rather then wealth . A blue blood lord may not be better then a hardworking working millionaire.
    the actual fact is that when you are at the lower tier of income . You can only spend so much while those with more disposable income have more to spend on "extra stuff" like tution

    end of the day social mobility is still there is your are a bright low income student. but if you have poor grade and low income , then you are at the bad end of the stick and more need to be done to help them

    such as a nation-wide dedicated low income tuition service. Which can perhaps make use of smart low income student and give them a decent pay which also help them alleviate their financial status

    1 stone 2 bird
    I think it's as much about social class as it is about wealth - sure, rich parents can put you through an expensive private school, but a lot of middle class parents in recent years have become adept at obtaining advantages for their kids through the state system - by moving to the 'right area', taking more of an interest and pushing their children into taking 11+ exams, and so on and so forth. It is why, in an area like mine, the students at my grammar school are VERY disproportionately middle class, and at the comprehensive on the other side of town VERY disproportionately working class.

    That said, grammar schools certainly aid social mobility and ought to be encouraged much more, as there are certainly students there getting opportunities and encouragement they otherwise wouldn't. Unpaid internships are where wealth probably impacts most later in life, and work experience where social class does. For example, I'm not sure my parents could afford for me to do a 6 month unpaid internship, but having a lot of legal connections has meant I've been able to spend a lot of time with senior partners at national firms and barristers, which has undoubtedly helped me and I could *never* have gotten without knowing the people in the first place.
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    (Original post by SpamBa)
    I really wish that the government would stop implying that all people at private school have endless connections.

    I might have been lucky enough to have parents who sacrificed a lot to pay for my education, but it doesn't change the fact that they live in a fairly isolated town a long way from London and don't really know anyone who could get me an internship. I'm still only the child of an admin clerk and a data analyst, and would struggle to break into politics, think-tanks, civil service, banking, journalism or city law.

    The closest I've got to 'connections' is that I got minimum-wage work doing the post at the law firm my mum works from which I managed to work my way up to secretarial admin in the Wills department. The kids of the firm's partners were the ones who got to go and sit in on client meetings and go to see exciting court cases.

    I guess this forms part of my motivation to become a social worker: I want to do something 'worthwhile' but I also want to do something that I feel I actually stand a chance of getting into because of what I can offer and not who my parents are.

    ---------

    I think the best step the government could feasibly take is to outlaw all of those 3/6/12 month unpaid internships with companies that are so widely advertised. It is slave labour and excludes the poor far more than a lack of connections. It is possible to network without the help of nepotism, but you need to actually be able to get your foot in the door, which these kind of schemes prevent. My family are not poor but even I couldn't afford to spend half a year working unpaid in London in order to break into a sector.

    Irony that so many of these unpaid internships are in charities and human rights organisations...
    There are currently government proposals to make an internship minimum wage of *gasp* £2.50 an hour; the apprenticeship wage. I would have to work over 13 hours a day in London to cover the cost of a peak time travelcard there from my town which is 45 minutes away...
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    (Original post by SpamBa)
    I really wish that the government would stop implying that all people at private school have endless connections.

    I might have been lucky enough to have parents who sacrificed a lot to pay for my education, but it doesn't change the fact that they live in a fairly isolated town a long way from London and don't really know anyone who could get me an internship. I'm still only the child of an admin clerk and a data analyst, and would struggle to break into politics, think-tanks, civil service, banking, journalism or city law.

    The closest I've got to 'connections' is that I got minimum-wage work doing the post at the law firm my mum works from which I managed to work my way up to secretarial admin in the Wills department.
    The kids of the firm's partners were the ones who got to go and sit in on client meetings and go to see exciting court cases.

    I guess this forms part of my motivation to become a social worker: I want to do something 'worthwhile' but I also want to do something that I feel I actually stand a chance of getting into because of what I can offer and not who my parents are.

    ---------

    I think the best step the government could feasibly take is to outlaw all of those 3/6/12 month unpaid internships with companies that are so widely advertised. It is slave labour and excludes the poor far more than a lack of connections. It is possible to network without the help of nepotism, but you need to actually be able to get your foot in the door, which these kind of schemes prevent. My family are not poor but even I couldn't afford to spend half a year working unpaid in London in order to break into a sector.

    Irony that so many of these unpaid internships are in charities and human rights organisations...
    Which is exactly the definiton of 'connections.' Connections doesn't mean being gifted high ranking jobs, it's about knowing people who know people who can get you into organisations. You may start off at the bottom but everyone has to. The difference is that you're in and once you're in that's half the battle. For a lot of people who's don't have such connections, even getting into well paid jobs at the lowest level is tough to impossible.
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    (Original post by london12)
    Maybe it's so obvious the graph didn't include
    'not every single pupil from the four groups will progress like this'

    ??

    Every heard of 'average' ??
    An average statistic that was not included in the use of the graph? Tsk tsk.
    Also, if we are talking about 'averages', the percentage of people in State schools is far higher than that of private, meaning the 'average' is sure to be dragged down simply through sheer size.
 
 
 
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