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    I almost gave up meat once when i stumbled across a certain video on youtube called 'Meet your Meat'. Honestly if you want to become a vegitarian watch it, beware though, it really will make you cry. Seriously bad stuff, I remember someone comparing the meat trade to the Holocaust and of course they were mocked, after watching that video I almost agree, there is something so innocent about animals, they rely on us and there is absolutley NO hope for them, there is no way out, they live their lives scared and confused.

    Also there is a Smiths song called 'Meat is Murder' that almost convinced me to give up (being a massive Morrissey fan at the time).

    Although I am not a vegitarian I always defend them now, people tend to be quite negative towards them in my experience but the sacrifice they give is something special. Although it is somewhat undermined if they aren't vegan, the dairy trade is equally appaling.

    Someday I hope to give up meat, not just yet, i'm too skinny as it is. Selfish I know.
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    (Original post by JCC-MGS)
    How is it acceptable to feed cows hormones which leave them in a constant state of artificial pregnancy and extract their milk? Can you imagine the hormonal imbalances of pregnancy your entire life? Is that not suffering? And male cows are not killed for meat, if the veal industry did not exist then male calves would still be killed because they don't present any financial incentive if they can't produce milk. That is what happens when a society treats animals as though they are objects, if they don't fulfill a certain purpose then they are discarded. And what does it matter if you only buy free range eggs when you purchase foods with eggs listed as ingredients? Big companies don't use free range eggs in their foods, they use battery hens to reduce costs. The only time you eat an egg product which is free range is when you buy fresh eggs themselves. And what does free range even mean? Do you know the definition of free range? Free range does not mean that chickens are not debeaked with a hot blade. Free range does not mean that male chicks are not slaughtered at birth and crushed because they don't lay eggs. Free range does not mean that hens are not starved to stimulate their laying cycle.

    Vegetarians are delusional people who don't make the connections between their eating habits and the cruelty behind them because they don't want to. There is nothing humane about the creation of any animal products.

    You sound a bit mental.
    If people are going to use dairy products then rather than the veal calves just being killed and discarded isn't it better to eat them? Sounds odd but I'm pretty much vegetarian except I eat BRITISH veal because I like dairy. Also in England we have to treat our veal calves much better than in Europe, so if we don't eat them and create a demand for the meat here then they get sent to Europe to live a really awful life

    Also, it is possible to buy food with egg in that uses free range eggs! Waitrose, M&S, Mr Kipling and Hellmans are big companies and they use free range eggs in their products. Cake, coleslaw, mayo, quiche....loads of stuff is easily available with free range egg.

    Assuming you're vegan....if you eat vegan spread or anything like that, google palm oil. Most things with vegetable oil listed as an ingredient mean palm oil; the oil palm happens to grow well in south east asia and to get enough space to grow it they bulldoze huge areas of forest where orangutans, tigers and other endangered animals live so these animals end up homeless quite often the adult orangutans are hacked up with a machete and sold as bush meat and the baby ones are sold as pets and kept in awful conditions. Surely your impact on the environment and animals would be less if you used organic butter/ butter from cows reared outside on grass in proper herds and milked only when they request it? (theres a machine that cows can ask to milk them when their udders are full - awesome!)

    So anyway sorry for a long post and if you already know about this sorry for sounding an idiot. But maybe some other people will learn from it... :/
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    i could never MAKE anyone go vegetarian, because ultimately it's down to you on what you eat, but it is always a good choice.
    you can still eat all your favourite foods, because you can always find a veggie opinion.
    i've been a vegetarian for 5 years, but when i started, i had massive cravings for bacon... then i found Quorn bacon. tastes exactly the same, just has a bit of an odd texture (but you get used to it )

    i don't miss meat at all, and i don't think i could ever go back from being veggie
    (:
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    (Original post by ihatebrownbread)
    wtf are you talking about?

    The post I quoted implemented some of the worst attempts at logic or a coherent argument that I've ever come across.

    Saying that any one of the following diets is in any way healthier than the other shows an incredibly ignorance when it comes to nutrition:
    Veganism
    Vegetarianism
    Pescatarianism
    Fully fledged meat eating.

    Each one of those diets calls on a lot of different foods with a lot of different nutritional factors.
    Moreover, there is not a one size fits all approach that can truly be implemented with regards to the nutritional needs of the human race.
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    (Original post by natalie1313)
    You sound a bit mental.
    If people are going to use dairy products then rather than the veal calves just being killed and discarded isn't it better to eat them? Sounds odd but I'm pretty much vegetarian except I eat BRITISH veal because I like dairy. Also in England we have to treat our veal calves much better than in Europe, so if we don't eat them and create a demand for the meat here then they get sent to Europe to live a really awful life
    I have no problem with people eating meat, I don't think eating meat is objectively wrong, it just isn't right for me. What I don't like is the moral laziness which says that eating meat is wrong because killing animals is wrong, but supporting industries which kill animals as a by-product of production is okay. I wouldn't care about that if people didn't pretend that animals aren't suffering as a result of their actions, they might as well be honest that their desire to eat dairy is stronger than their moral imperative not to. I don't know why telling someone the truth is mental but listening to them tell their idyllic dream version of the dairy industry where no animals get hurt is sane. If you don't think animals should be killed or made to suffer, you would not support an industry where your money funds the slaughter and suffering of those animals, and the product could not exist without it. You like dairy so you eat it, fine, but it doesn't make it moral.

    Also, it is possible to buy food with egg in that uses free range eggs! Waitrose, M&S, Mr Kipling and Hellmans are big companies and they use free range eggs in their products. Cake, coleslaw, mayo, quiche....loads of stuff is easily available with free range egg.
    Like I explained, free range is a marketing term more than a moral standard. The treatment of the animals is largely the same except that they have the opportunity to roam, which means that many never will so long as the facility is there to make it legally free range. They still live in tiny coops, crammed together, diseased, starving etc but the TV likes to paint pictures in people's heads of hens sitting on fresh hay in a paddock all to themselves and the farmer comes over and picks it up by hand. Besides, that's five companies and Mr Kipling only started doing it a couple months ago so it's disingenuous to say it like it's some industry standard and even if it was it's irrelevant because Mad Cat Lady still has the wrong idea.

    Assuming you're vegan....if you eat vegan spread or anything like that, google palm oil. Most things with vegetable oil listed as an ingredient mean palm oil; the oil palm happens to grow well in south east asia and to get enough space to grow it they bulldoze huge areas of forest where orangutans, tigers and other endangered animals live so these animals end up homeless quite often the adult orangutans are hacked up with a machete and sold as bush meat and the baby ones are sold as pets and kept in awful conditions. Surely your impact on the environment and animals would be less if you used organic butter/ butter from cows reared outside on grass in proper herds and milked only when they request it? (theres a machine that cows can ask to milk them when their udders are full - awesome!)

    So anyway sorry for a long post and if you already know about this sorry for sounding an idiot. But maybe some other people will learn from it... :/
    Palm oil is not only present in vegan spread, it's in all manner of products. Admittedly I didn't know about palm oil's production but I doubt much of my food contains it since I eat mostly pulses, legumes, rice, soy etc but the production of certain crops and vegan foods is problematic. I buy my food sustainably and fairly traded where I can, but I don't make any pretense that my hands are free of cruelty towards humans or non-humans. I have my own reasons for not eating dairy but again, that method of organic milk production you described is not the dairy people consume in everyday products.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Your post screams ignorance.
    pot, kettle, black much?

    How does my post scream ignorance when I said that eating a veggie diet can be healthier if done properly?

    Being a veggie and stuffing your face with pizza every day obviously isn't healthy, but having tofu, salads, nuts, pulses...etc. can work wonders.

    Take your trolling meat-eating mind elsewhere...
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    (Original post by Meg Griffin)
    pot, kettle, black much?

    How does my post scream ignorance when I said that eating a veggie diet can be healthier if done properly?

    Being a veggie and stuffing your face with pizza every day obviously isn't healthy, but having tofu, salads, nuts, pulses...etc. can work wonders.

    Take your trolling meat-eating mind elsewhere...
    Eating meat can be healthier, if done properly. It most likely depends on the individuals activities most of the time.

    However, aside from that empty bull****, you also said:
    "No gross fat clogging up your arteries!"

    I don't even know where to begin with that, I mean aside form milk and eggs.
    But apart from that you can be a meat eater without cholesterol levels being high.

    Why you're making presumptions about me is also, well, absurd. You don't know anything about me, all you're doing is making another post that, screams of ignorance.

    It's as if you think being vegetarian does anything to solve any environmental or moral issues.
    But the dairy industry causes lameness, mastitis, and decreases life expectancy in cows.
    Shockingly, this seems as bad if not worse than the way cattle are treated, and what they go through, in the meat industry.
    The fact that many have to be impregnated, sometimes multiple times, is a lot to go through, considering it's just for milk.
    As if that wasn't enough cows will be terminated if they're not producing enough acceptable milk, and calves will also often be killed quickly. Of course the dairy cows have to come from somewhere, so there's also the questions of how the bulls are treated.

    This is before talking about the egg industry, where birds are withheld food to shock them into another egg laying cycle if they stop laying eggs. Many are debeaked. Malnourishment is not rare. My university project only looked into dairy cows in the UK, and not birds, but free range means very little welfare wise, as does "organic".

    Would you care to stop pushing your idiotic ill informed and, frankly, poorly articulated posts until you've done a little more research than what I can only presume has been going onto the PETA website or talking to PETA members?



    Also, you should hang your head in shame, your "counter argument" was that I eat meat. Well, firstly, that's not even relevant to nutrition. But secondly, I've not eaten meat knowingly since the summer of 2006. Shove it up your arse and hugs and kisses, TTML .
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    I've not eaten meat knowingly since the summer of 2006.
    Do you want a medal or something? Try doing it since 1998. Plus in your ignorant post you seem to presume that I drink milk and eat eggs? Another assumption, sigh .

    You seem like one of those people who just go on forums to argue, which isn't helped by it saying 'take your carriage clock and shove it' next to your name. I find this very sad and you need to get a life.

    Hugs and kisses back
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    (Original post by secret_smile)
    Disagree. Abattoirs have to abide by the same UK laws and methods of slaughter. The same errors in slaughter can occur in any farm.
    Spoiler explains methods of slaughter and the errors that can occur if you want to read about it.

    Spoiler:
    Show

    Cattle slaughter
    The majority of cattle are stunned with the captive bolt pistol. Penetrative captive bolt stunners drive a bolt into the skull and cause unconsciousness both through physical brain damage and the concussive blow to the skull. The bolt on a non-penetrative stunner is 'mushroom-headed' and impacts on the brain without entering the skull. Unconsciousness is caused by the concussive blow.

    If an animal is not accurately stunned or the correct cartridge strength is not used, the stun will not be effective. The EU Scientific Veterinary Committee estimate that around 5 to 10% of cattle are not stunned effectively with the captive bolt - or up to 230,000 animals a year. These animals experience the pain of being shot in the head and will either be stunned again (a difficult procedure) or continue on for knifing whilst conscious.

    In an attempt to improve accuracy, legislation requires that cattle are either confined in a stunning pen or have their heads 'securely fastened'. However, head restraint systems can cause great distress. The MHS says that 17% of abattoirs either do not use a restraint or use an "inefficient" restraint which can result in the stun being delivered ineffectively.

    Says abattoir vet Gabriele Meurer, 'Not many animals stand still. They are all upset, some very frightened and some move violently. The animals are never given time to calm down. Sometimes the slaughterman misses, wounding the animal terribly instead of stunning it. It may happen that the second shot cannot be done immediately and the animal is suffering for quite some time.'

    In addition to the stress of being in an unfamiliar environment, the electric goad can legally be used on the hindquarters of cattle and pigs if they are refusing to move forwards. This cruel device is intentionally designed to cause pain.

    Worn out dairy cows may be subjected to a painful experience before they are killed. It is becoming increasingly common for novice artificial inseminators to 'practise' on cull cows in abattoirs. For welfare reasons, novice inseminators are advised to practise only on cows who will be slaughtered on that day. The message here is that this practice is considered distressing for cows - but that if they are about to be killed then this does not matter.

    Sheep slaughter
    The majority of sheep are stunned with a head-only electrical stun. The operator places a pair of electric tongs on either side of the animal's head and an electric current is passed through the brain - supposedly causing a temporary loss of consciousness.

    The MHS (Meat Hygiene Service) says that the interval between stunning and knifing can be as high as 70 seconds for sheep. Another study found that the average interval was 21 seconds. Sheep take an average of 14 seconds to lose brain responsiveness if both carotid arteries (the major arteries that supply blood to the head) are cut. UK law only requires one carotid artery to be cut and in this case sheep take an average of 70 seconds to lose brain responsiveness. Yet an electric head-only stun only lasts between 20 and 40 seconds.Viva! estimates that 4 million may regain consciousness each year before they die and we have video footage showing sheep regaining consciousness as they bleed to death. If only one carotid artery is cut, sheep may not be dead after the required 20 second bleed out time and they will therefore be skinned alive.

    Researchers at Bristol University found that after an electric stun, sheep are not able to feel pain but they are have periods of being fully aware of their surroundings i.e. they can still feel fear and they are conscious whilst hanging upside down on the killing rail, bleeding to death. They could not prove whether the electricity has an immediate effect and Dr Harold Hillman, Director of the Unity Laboratory of Applied Neurobiology, says that when animals are stunned, they suffer extreme pain. They are unable to cry out or move because the massive electric current paralyses them. His evidence is based on reports from human torture victims.

    Pig slaughter
    Most pigs are electrically stunned and research has shown that the inaccurate placement of the electric tongs is a big problem within the industry. Research has shown that 36% of tong placements do not span the brain as required by law. 13.3% of pigs are stunned on the snout and jaws - a position which is not recommended because animals may fail to lose consciousness. Viva! estimates that in the UK, 125,000 pigs a year will not be stunned at all because of this.

    Pigs stay unconscious for an average of 42 seconds but not all pigs will be unconscious for as long as this. They take up to 23 seconds to lose brain responsiveness, meaning that the interval between stunning and knifing should certainly not be longer than 19 seconds. But MHS statistics reveal that in many abattoirs, the interval between stunning and knifing is longer than this. Viva! estimates that in the UK, approximately a million pigs will regain consciousness before they die from loss of blood. We have video footage showing pigs regaining consciousness as they bleed to death.

    Says abattoir vet Gabriele Meurer, 'The slaughtermen are in such a hurry that they often don't put the electric tongs in the correct position on the pigs' heads. The pigs get only half or insufficiently stunned, wake up while they bleed and are obviously still alive and conscious when they plunge into the boiling water. Sheep are stunned just as badly.'

    25% of pigs - over 2 million a year - are stunned with CO2 gas. It takes pigs up to 30 seconds to lose consciousness and during that time they will squeal, hyperventilate and try to escape. Pigs are supposed to be left in the gas chamber until the gas kills them and then 'bled out'.

    The captive bolt pistol is not recommended for pigs because the brain lies deep down in the head and it is difficult to cause unconsciousness. Yet the captive bolt pistol continues to be used for pigs in a high number of low throughput premises.


    I shouldn't have read that spoiler. I'm now crying.

    Gods.. I cannot wait until I'm in a situation when I can go back to being vegan. Cannot ****ing wait.

    I'm also really, really dreading a few modules on my course.. I've got to go work on a dairy farm that the college owns and I have to help out with dehorning cattle, amongst other things... And the two pigs I've already met, one is being kept for breeding purposes and the other will be sent off for slaughter and the head of the department will have her sausages in his freezer and sell them to the students...
    Not to mention all the rats, mice and quail that are bred and killed on site to feed the reptiles and the birds of prey...

    I feel like such a traitor doing this course but in the long-run it will hopefully work out.. (My long-term goal is to end up working in a rescue centre or a welfare organisation etc etc and having a qualification in animal management will seriously help me.)

    Anyway, as for the OP... I'm not going to lie, I disagree with a lot of what you've been saying for the past few pages HOWEVER, if you're eating less meat then you were it's a good thing..
    Nobody should try to force you to become vegetarian (just as no vegetarian should feel pressurised to eat meat or mocked for their choices :grumble: )... As far as I'm concerned, I don't really care what other people eat. But I will say good for you for eating less meat... Every little helps.. (Same for the vegans would constantly put down vegetarians for eating dairy/eggs.. Educating is fine, attacking is most definitely NOT fine and there are some (like me) whose situation does not allow them to be vegan at present... Some of us do know the horrors of those industries (and from a personal viewpoint I know about the wool, silk, honey etc industries as well) and while you've been able to go vegan (which is ****ing amazing by the way) some of us aren't in a situation where it's possible.. :sad: )

    Oh and I know I'm a massive hypocrite when it comes to my diet and my lifestyle but I'm doing what I can at the moment...
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    Being a vegetarian brings a lot of health benefits and advantages. Eating meat has a lot of disadvantages. Some animals are fed with different kinds of chemicals, injected drugs, coloring, tenderizers, intoxicants, and many more.
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    (Original post by Hravan)
    I shouldn't have read that spoiler. I'm now crying.

    Gods.. I cannot wait until I'm in a situation when I can go back to being vegan. Cannot ****ing wait.

    I'm also really, really dreading a few modules on my course.. I've got to go work on a dairy farm that the college owns and I have to help out with dehorning cattle, amongst other things... And the two pigs I've already met, one is being kept for breeding purposes and the other will be sent off for slaughter and the head of the department will have her sausages in his freezer and sell them to the students...
    Not to mention all the rats, mice and quail that are bred and killed on site to feed the reptiles and the birds of prey...

    I feel like such a traitor doing this course but in the long-run it will hopefully work out.. (My long-term goal is to end up working in a rescue centre or a welfare organisation etc etc and having a qualification in animal management will seriously help me.)

    Anyway, as for the OP... I'm not going to lie, I disagree with a lot of what you've been saying for the past few pages HOWEVER, if you're eating less meat then you were it's a good thing..
    Nobody should try to force you to become vegetarian (just as no vegetarian should feel pressurised to eat meat or mocked for their choices :grumble: )... As far as I'm concerned, I don't really care what other people eat. But I will say good for you for eating less meat... Every little helps.. (Same for the vegans would constantly put down vegetarians for eating dairy/eggs.. Educating is fine, attacking is most definitely NOT fine and there are some (like me) whose situation does not allow them to be vegan at present... Some of us do know the horrors of those industries (and from a personal viewpoint I know about the wool, silk, honey etc industries as well) and while you've been able to go vegan (which is ****ing amazing by the way) some of us aren't in a situation where it's possible.. :sad: )

    Oh and I know I'm a massive hypocrite when it comes to my diet and my lifestyle but I'm doing what I can at the moment...
    Likewise :five:
    But I chose the Biology route to give me a bit more flexibility in the jobs I apply for and the modules I have to do (I can chose to avoid all modules that include animal handling).

    Out of curiosity, why are you in a situation where you can't be vegan?

    And sorry spoiler upset you :sad:
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    (Original post by Meg Griffin)
    Do you want a medal or something? Try doing it since 1998. Plus in your ignorant post you seem to presume that I drink milk and eat eggs? Another assumption, sigh .

    You seem like one of those people who just go on forums to argue, which isn't helped by it saying 'take your carriage clock and shove it' next to your name. I find this very sad and you need to get a life.

    Hugs and kisses back
    You accused me of eating meat, and continue to talk about how people should be veggies.
    Veggies is taken to mean by the vast majority of people "vegetarian", so unless you're abusing language?

    You talk about this medal bull****, after saying I'm a meat eater? And then post that you've not eating meat since 1998?

    Finally, if you'd bother to look at my profile you'd realise I'm a massive belle and sebastian fan (just googling the quote would bring that up), but instead you go onto my profile, don't do your research and take things out of context.

    Now stop prescribing vegetarianism, stop talking about "fat clogging up articles" with the vague context of eating meat, and stop giving veganism a bad name you self righteous ignorant fool. You sound like you surf the ****ing PETA website, is your aim really to present veganism as something that contradicts the little we know about nutrition? So that meat eaters think vegans don't have a clue what they're talking about?
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    The problem when bringing up Vegetarianism and Veganism is people get very defensive.

    When asked if I am a veggie, I simply nod. Don't preach, nod. Omnivores immediatly start defending themselve, in fact almost every single one follows the same pattern- defend, then mumble that they don't eat meat EVERY day of the week so are KIND OF a veggie (so feel guilty) then get angry and demand that I eat a bacon sandwich.

    I did. For 18 years. I ate bacon sandwiches up the ying yang. I doubt anyone could've eaten more bacon, steak, juicy pork chops than me. I LOVED MEAT.

    Then I watched this - http://www.earthlings.com/

    I cried a little bit, got insanely angry and gave up meat on the spot. Does it taste good? Yes, but taste is selfish. If a puppy tasted good would you eat it? Why do we put one animal over another? Speciesism has got to stop.

    As for the person argueing against the dairy production they are 100% correct. It is equally as cruel. Don't say 'Oh I eat veal so I am doing good'. If we stopped producing an insane amount of milk there would be far less calves, so far less suffering.

    Just need to slip a little bit on info in now that I am ranting- The Meat industry creates more green house gases and polluntants than the entire worlds transport system. So if you moan that cars are bad for environment but eat meat you are a hypocrite.

    Have a nice day
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    (Original post by ihatebrownbread)
    People who do eat meat are missing out on a healthier lifestyle in my opinion

    Plenty of people who eat meat have healthier lifestyles.
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    (Original post by JohnC2211)
    Plenty of people who eat meat have healthier lifestyles.
    Whether your a vegan or an omnivore you can be unhealthy. Its all about getting the right balance of nutrients. There is a common misconception that Veggies don't get enough protein. This is rubbish. In fact the average meat eating human doesn't get enough protein because they think by consuming meat thats enough. Being a veggie I have to actively seek and monitor my protein intake (by eathing chickpeas, lentils etc).

    Also rejecting meat from you diet tends to be because of three reasons, religion, ethical reasons or health.

    There is factual evidence that meat, dairy and eggs produces high levels of cholesterol in the body. Hence why people suffering from heart problems are advised to cut down on these significantly.

    So its not down to preference of food, its down to self control and a balanced diet.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    You accused me of eating meat, and continue to talk about how people should be veggies.
    Veggies is taken to mean by the vast majority of people "vegetarian", so unless you're abusing language?

    You talk about this medal bull****, after saying I'm a meat eater? And then post that you've not eating meat since 1998?

    Finally, if you'd bother to look at my profile you'd realise I'm a massive belle and sebastian fan (just googling the quote would bring that up), but instead you go onto my profile, don't do your research and take things out of context.

    Now stop prescribing vegetarianism, stop talking about "fat clogging up articles" with the vague context of eating meat, and stop giving veganism a bad name you self righteous ignorant fool. You sound like you surf the ****ing PETA website, is your aim really to present veganism as something that contradicts the little we know about nutrition? So that meat eaters think vegans don't have a clue what they're talking about?

    Yes, 'veggie' means 'vegetarian', well done!

    I am not prescribing vegetarianism in the slightest and would never do that. It's up to people what they want to eat and that's why I'm more than happy to go to steakhouses with my boyfriend and go to BBQs and watch people engage in meat eating without me uttering a single word.

    What I meant about 'fat clogging up arteries' (if you had let me explain without jumping down my throat) is that although other fats can clog your arteries, animal fat is the worst and obviously if you're veggie or vegan you won't have any animal fat in your body in the first place to actually clog your arteries. Please refer to this site and everything will be explained if you can't be bothered to find things out yourself.

    Toodles
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    I don't know if this has already been posted, but oh well:

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    (Original post by secret_smile)
    Likewise :five:
    But I chose the Biology route to give me a bit more flexibility in the jobs I apply for and the modules I have to do (I can chose to avoid all modules that include animal handling).

    Out of curiosity, why are you in a situation where you can't be vegan?

    And sorry spoiler upset you :sad:
    You see... I screwed up when I decided on my A levels (seriously, I would do anything to go back 4 years ago and slap my 16 year old self and make me do at least Biology at A level as well as some other sciences..)
    I've wasted two years at uni doing courses that I kinda did want to do but in the long run wouldn't get me anywhere (did a year of History then did a year of Geography). Plus a load of other stuff (I have ummm mental health problems shall we say ) that basically just ended up with me dropping out.
    So I can't even go back to uni to do a foundation degree and then a BSc top-up year because I won't get the funding for it. (And highly annoying because Harper is just down the road but I can't even go their to do their animal degrees.)
    So yeah, now doing a level 3 BTEC in Animal Management at the local agriculture college.. It's a fairly OK course, I mean we do do A level biology in it (in 6 months instead of 2 years... ) and there's modules like "Kennel and Cattery Management". I've just got to grin and bear the nasty stuff. (I'm not the only one who is having problems in terms of beliefs.. We're doing evolution at the moment and there's a Christian girl who really dislikes evolution.. She still has to study and do an assignment on it but the teacher is very careful to reiterate that it's "just a theory" and if people don't believe in it then it's fine.
    He's also said to me (he's the head of the department as well) that nobody should give me any grief for being veggie and if something practical is too much for me then I just need to say and I don't have to do it if it's too upsetting (although they would like everybody to do it they can't force us).

    Umm.. I'm living back at home.. So can't be vegan. You know, I could be vegan if I cooked my own meals but my mother is perfectly happy eating vegetarian meals (and just eats meat when she's out) with me but she won't do vegan meals... And I've raise the subject of me cooking my own meals and it's a non-starter even if I did buy all my own food. Plus, with all the stuff my mother has had to deal with from me (like the whole having to change all her plans and stuff so I can spend the next 2+ years living at home when she was planning on me only being back in the summer and other stuff) I'm trying to limit the amount of things that can cause tension and being vegetarian instead of vegan is one of those things. Yes, I could probably stick to my guns like I did when I stopped eating meat and in about 6 months or so it will all be fine, but those 6 months would be hell and I can't deal with it.
    So yeah, it's just a compromise. I'm not exactly happy about it but I can live with it... Mainly because I knew that one of the consequences of dropping out would this and I've got to accept that fact. Basically, it just makes life easier, not only for me but for my mother.. Completely selfish I know but I've have too many things to worry about at the moment to add any extra tension to the house.
    Besides.. 2 to 3 years down the line (hopefully, if I can move out) I will be going back to being vegan so I know this isn't a permanent thing..
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    (Original post by Hravan)
    You see... I screwed up when I decided on my A levels (seriously, I would do anything to go back 4 years ago and slap my 16 year old self and make me do at least Biology at A level as well as some other sciences..)
    I've wasted two years at uni doing courses that I kinda did want to do but in the long run wouldn't get me anywhere (did a year of History then did a year of Geography). Plus a load of other stuff (I have ummm mental health problems shall we say ) that basically just ended up with me dropping out.
    So I can't even go back to uni to do a foundation degree and then a BSc top-up year because I won't get the funding for it. (And highly annoying because Harper is just down the road but I can't even go their to do their animal degrees.)
    So yeah, now doing a level 3 BTEC in Animal Management at the local agriculture college.. It's a fairly OK course, I mean we do do A level biology in it (in 6 months instead of 2 years... ) and there's modules like "Kennel and Cattery Management". I've just got to grin and bear the nasty stuff. (I'm not the only one who is having problems in terms of beliefs.. We're doing evolution at the moment and there's a Christian girl who really dislikes evolution.. She still has to study and do an assignment on it but the teacher is very careful to reiterate that it's "just a theory" and if people don't believe in it then it's fine.
    He's also said to me (he's the head of the department as well) that nobody should give me any grief for being veggie and if something practical is too much for me then I just need to say and I don't have to do it if it's too upsetting (although they would like everybody to do it they can't force us).

    Umm.. I'm living back at home.. So can't be vegan. You know, I could be vegan if I cooked my own meals but my mother is perfectly happy eating vegetarian meals (and just eats meat when she's out) with me but she won't do vegan meals... And I've raise the subject of me cooking my own meals and it's a non-starter even if I did buy all my own food. Plus, with all the stuff my mother has had to deal with from me (like the whole having to change all her plans and stuff so I can spend the next 2+ years living at home when she was planning on me only being back in the summer and other stuff) I'm trying to limit the amount of things that can cause tension and being vegetarian instead of vegan is one of those things. Yes, I could probably stick to my guns like I did when I stopped eating meat and in about 6 months or so it will all be fine, but those 6 months would be hell and I can't deal with it.
    So yeah, it's just a compromise. I'm not exactly happy about it but I can live with it... Mainly because I knew that one of the consequences of dropping out would this and I've got to accept that fact. Basically, it just makes life easier, not only for me but for my mother.. Completely selfish I know but I've have too many things to worry about at the moment to add any extra tension to the house.
    Besides.. 2 to 3 years down the line (hopefully, if I can move out) I will be going back to being vegan so I know this isn't a permanent thing..
    My mums really good as well. She cooks all the sauces and 'preparation' separately. then adds meat to her's and quorn or other veg to mine.

    Being Vegan is a lot harder, I personally don't see the problem with eating eggs (and can get free range farm shop ones which are 100% real free range) but have swapped all my dairy for soya and dairy free stuff. Due to people being lactose intolerant there is LOADS of dairy free stuff in shops Cheezly- fairly obvious dairy free vegan cheese, Soya, oat, rice milk and soya, olive oil, sunflower oil or Vitalite butters.

    I found giving up chocolate to be the hardest and I still make mistakes...
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    (Original post by diving_queen)
    My mums really good as well. She cooks all the sauces and 'preparation' separately. then adds meat to her's and quorn or other veg to mine.

    Being Vegan is a lot harder, I personally don't see the problem with eating eggs (and can get free range farm shop ones which are 100% real free range) but have swapped all my dairy for soya and dairy free stuff. Due to people being lactose intolerant there is LOADS of dairy free stuff in shops Cheezly- fairly obvious dairy free vegan cheese, Soya, oat, rice milk and soya, olive oil, sunflower oil or Vitalite butters.

    I found giving up chocolate to be the hardest and I still make mistakes...
    You see, I do most of the cooking in the house...

    Yep, I know there are plenty of dairy-free alternatives.. I used most of the ones you've listed while I was vegan

    As for eggs.. Yeah I have a problem with eggs, regardless of free-range or not.. Free-range is hardly better than battery... I can't be bothered to type it all out but if you're interested this is pretty good: http://www.viva.org.uk/campaigns/chickens/index.html
 
 
 
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