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    (Original post by Suzanathema)
    It makes me a little sad how many people considering applying for a Ph.D. can't even spell it. :facepalm2:
    ...seriously? it makes me sad there are people with so little going on in their own lives that they have nothing else to do than go through internet posts to try and work out if they conform to the chicago manual of style. and no, i didn't capitalise "chicago"... or "i". that clearly means that despite being a published scientist teaching undergraduate classes with invited speaking posts at international conferences, two months away from handing in my p.H.doctorus.sciencium (is that it? help!!!>!), i am an idiot.

    hint: people with or doing phds have more important things to care about
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    I know plenty of people who went straight from a 3 year bachelors into a PhD
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    (Original post by Suzanathema)
    Oxford style, actually.

    And you should care, if I was hiring and someone had put ph.D on their CV instead of writing it properly I'd put the CV straight in the bin. Plus, think of the person who has to read your dissertation :rolleyes:
    Sorry, what experience do you have of hiring people with PhDs, at the ripe age of 22, and how many people do you think put the same amount of thought into posting on The Student Room Dot Com (2011) as they do into writing a C.V.? besides, no one wrote "ph.D", you were clearly moaning about people who wrote PhD.

    the people who have to read my THESIS (not "dissertation") will also have PhDs and will not give a **** whether I put a full stop in there or not. because guess what? non-native english speakers do research degrees as well, and they will graduate with far worse spelling and grammatical errors in their thesis than that non-error stylistic point. unless of course they get an ethnocentric jobsworth like you who'll disregard their academic merit in favour of a pedantic first-language speaker. luckily since you're not in any sort of place to judge people with phds for academic positions, that's not going to happen.
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    (Original post by thisismycatch22)
    Sorry, what experience do you have of hiring people with PhDs, at the ripe age of 22, and how many people do you think put the same amount of thought into posting on The Student Room Dot Com (2011) as they do into writing a C.V.? besides, no one wrote "ph.D", you were clearly moaning about people who wrote PhD.

    the people who have to read my THESIS (not "dissertation") will also have PhDs and will not give a **** whether I put a full stop in there or not. because guess what? non-native english speakers do research degrees as well, and they will graduate with far worse spelling and grammatical errors in their thesis than that non-error stylistic point. unless of course they get an ethnocentric jobsworth like you who'll disregard their academic merit in favour of a pedantic first-language speaker. luckily since you're not in any sort of place to judge people with phds for academic positions, that's not going to happen.
    I can't even remember the last time I saw it wrote as "Ph.D." It actually looks weird!
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    PhD is more common than Ph.D., I would say. In fact, concerning degrees more generally, fullstops are generally omitted in current usage - BA, BSc, LLB, MSci, MSc, MChem, BPhil, MPhil, MSt, BCL, rather than B.A., B.Sc., LL.B., M.Sci., M.Chem., B.Phil. etc... The same goes for membership/fellowship of learned societies; FRS, FBA, FRHistS, FRSC etc.
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    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    Can it? Unless you are lucky enough to have parents to give you cash or even luckier to get funding then you will probably be getting a career development loan on commercial terms to complete an MSc. Hardly something I'd be keen to do if the other option was to basically pay small amount of extra tax to cover the equivalent qualification.

    Theoretical physics is relatively popular so you do need the kind of recommendations that Shiny is talking about above much else. If your game is Cambridge then I think part III is a requirement for most PhDs in areas we would consider theoretical physics.

    Forgetting the cost for a moment, the MSc offers you much more control over where and what you will be studying/researching. Clearly that in itself is a huge advantage (and probably well worth the extra cost).

    My main point though is that nearly all of the Masters courses (post and undergraduate) out there that I've seen in chemistry (or chemical engineering) are clearly a scam £££ (amounting to nothing more than free research help for the university + £££).

    Obviously this is only my opinion and I don't know about anything else outside of chemistry/chem eng, but I suspect it's the same if not worse for everything else.

    The only Masters coures I would have considered 4 years ago would have been those of 4 years in length with the extra year comprising of industrial paid research. IMO, this is a much, much better route:

    - You get real invaluable experience (9-5 for an entire year)
    - You get paid
    - It's nearly impossible to get a bad reference from your industrial supervisor
    - You gain industrial contacts
    - You get to play with much more expensive toys in industry
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    (Original post by Suzanathema)
    Oxford style, actually.

    And you should care, if I was hiring and someone had put ph.D on their CV instead of writing it properly I'd put the CV straight in the bin. Plus, think of the person who has to read your dissertation :rolleyes:
    Yes, but we're talking on an internet forum. Not completing our CV's. :rolleyes: Given that some of us are capable of PhD's in theoretical physics, I don't think punctuation will be a major problem.
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    (Original post by Suzanathema)
    It makes me a little sad how many people considering applying for a Ph.D. can't even spell it. :facepalm2:
    What a ridiculous and irrelevent thing to say.
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    Hey, I review papers for a rather nice journal (and have done for since being awarded my doctorate in 2007). I don't think I have ever seen it written out as Ph.D. Honestly, you need to get a life!
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    (Original post by Chemist548)
    Forgetting the cost for a moment, the MSc offers you much more control over where and what you will be studying/researching. Clearly that in itself is a huge advantage (and probably well worth the extra cost).
    In the physical sciences I don't think that really confers any kind of advantage at all in the most part. There are possibly a handful of courses that it might do (Part III at Cambridge for example) but not many. Any real advantage is hugely reduced by the cost and method of funding for most MSc degrees. I haven't seen any evidence that for most physical science PhDs that MSc applicants are favoured over MSci (or equivalent) applicants. The only favouritism I've seen is with the institution's own graduates compared to outside UK applicants.
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    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    In the physical sciences I don't think that really confers any kind of advantage at all in the most part. There are possibly a handful of courses that it might do (Part III at Cambridge for example) but not many. Any real advantage is hugely reduced by the cost and method of funding for most MSc degrees. I haven't seen any evidence that for most physical science PhDs that MSc applicants are favoured over MSci (or equivalent) applicants. The only favouritism I've seen is with the institution's own graduates compared to outside UK applicants.
    No, I'm not talking about favouritism from the universities. I'm talking about getting to research and study exactly what you want to during your MSc additional year. My point is that you normally have very limited choice as a 4th year MSci student. And therefore obviously if you're doing exactly what you want you're in a much better situation (and for PhDs).

    And in that respcect, it's worth paying the extra (which IMO because of the fact that MSc courses are 12 months, amounts to not alot). - NOT because of favouritism from uni departments.

    But like I keep saying, Masters are a waste of £££ and time anyway...
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    Fullstops in acronyms were dropped a loooooong time ago. No-one writes "the U.S.A. are in N.A.T.O." anymore, its just "the USA are in NATO".
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    (Original post by thisismycatch22)
    Sorry, what experience do you have of hiring people with PhDs, at the ripe age of 22, and how many people do you think put the same amount of thought into posting on The Student Room Dot Com (2011) as they do into writing a C.V.? besides, no one wrote "ph.D", you were clearly moaning about people who wrote PhD.

    the people who have to read my THESIS (not "dissertation") will also have PhDs and will not give a **** whether I put a full stop in there or not. because guess what? non-native english speakers do research degrees as well, and they will graduate with far worse spelling and grammatical errors in their thesis than that non-error stylistic point. unless of course they get an ethnocentric jobsworth like you who'll disregard their academic merit in favour of a pedantic first-language speaker. luckily since you're not in any sort of place to judge people with phds for academic positions, that's not going to happen.
    I don't hire people at all, but I am a copy editor for an academic publisher so I have to read the work of people who have a Ph.D. and the general pattern I have noticed is if they can't spell it in their biography, I will be doing a LOT of work editing their submission. I won't judge people for academic positions, no, but if their work is **** I will suggest to the journal editor to have a word and perhaps they shouldn't submit any more, because it's too much time and effort to put their submissions into house style when they can't even accurately describe their qualifications in a document that will be published and distributed, and that's way worse than missing a couple of full points off on an internet forum.

    Don't hate
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    (Original post by Suzanathema)
    I don't hire people at all, but I am a copy editor for an academic publisher so I have to read the work of people who have a Ph.D. and the general pattern I have noticed is if they can't spell it in their biography, I will be doing a LOT of work editing their submission. I won't judge people for academic positions, no, but if their work is **** I will suggest to the journal editor to have a word and perhaps they shouldn't submit any more, because it's too much time and effort to put their submissions into house style when they can't even accurately describe their qualifications in a document that will be published and distributed, and that's way worse than missing a couple of full points off on an internet forum.

    Don't hate
    Generally speaking, I'd expect people with science PhDs to leave the monkey formatting work to simpletons like yourself.

    No surprise really.

    Seriously, who cares whether it's PhD Or Ph.D. ?
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    (Original post by Chemist548)
    No, I'm not talking about favouritism from the universities. I'm talking about getting to research and study exactly what you want to during your MSc additional year. My point is that you normally have very limited choice as a 4th year MSci student. And therefore obviously if you're doing exactly what you want you're in a much better situation (and for PhDs).
    So you are really talking about something like an MRes or MPhil rather than a taught MSc (where you have very little more choice than an undergrad in terms of research project). Might as well just start a PhD rather than treading water.

    And in that respcect, it's worth paying the extra (which IMO because of the fact that MSc courses are 12 months, amounts to not alot). - NOT because of favouritism from uni departments.
    Fair enough and that's an individual decision, but it's not one I agree with.
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    (Original post by Suzanathema)
    I don't hire people at all, but I am a copy editor for an academic publisher so I have to read the work of people who have a Ph.D. and the general pattern I have noticed is if they can't spell it in their biography, I will be doing a LOT of work editing their submission. I won't judge people for academic positions, no, but if their work is **** I will suggest to the journal editor to have a word and perhaps they shouldn't submit any more, because it's too much time and effort to put their submissions into house style when they can't even accurately describe their qualifications in a document that will be published and distributed, and that's way worse than missing a couple of full points off on an internet forum.

    Don't hate
    You are, of course, talking about a technicality here. Of course authors should read the rules of particular journal before submitting, however, in the real world it can be a total pain in the arse to go through a manuscript for re-submission to another journal and change everything to a different house-style (such as adding periods to qualification titles or changing all the ph's to f's in sulphur). Some people just chance it. My experience is that most journals are far too pedantic about their house-style and also appear to pride themselves on having a unique house-style.
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    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    So you are really talking about something like an MRes or MPhil rather than a taught MSc (where you have very little more choice than an undergrad in terms of research project). Might as well just start a PhD rather than treading water.



    Fair enough and that's an individual decision, but it's not one I agree with.

    Well yes, starting a PhD would be better. That's what I've been saying the entire thread.
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    (Original post by Chemist548)
    I must not be explaining what I mean clearly enough. Here's the difference:

    - You can CHOOSE a HUGE range of specialised MSc courses.

    - For your MSci year you CANNOT choose from a huge range of modules (in fact usually you will be very limited).
    But you were talking about research? :confused:

    Even so, most MSc courses have a core content that is very similar to the MSci year and, in fact, most MSci final years have significant specialism, both in terms of modules and of course the research project. I, like many people who have done an undergrad masters in physical science sat with MSc students in the modules we had. My university didn't do any specialist MSc teaching at all in chemistry, for example. When I was a post-doc I taught an MSc in nanotechnology in a physics department that was just a core MSci physics final year course with the nanotech specialist modules (that could be taken by undergrads) and an extended research project.
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    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    But you were talking about research? :confused:

    Even so, most MSc courses have a core content that is very similar to the MSci year and, in fact, most MSci final years have significant specialism, both in terms of modules and of course the research project. I, like many people who have done an undergrad masters in physical science sat with MSc students in the modules we had. My university didn't do any specialist MSc teaching at all in chemistry, for example. When I was a post-doc I taught an MSc in nanotechnology in a physics department that was just a core MSci physics final year course with the nanotech specialist modules (that could be taken by undergrads) and an extended research project.
    No, I'm talking about study and research together (both of which are found together in MSc and MSci courses).

    My point is that you have more choice with an MSc.

    The fact that MSc courses and MSci courses share content is irrelevant to what I'm trying to say.
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    (Original post by Suzanathema)
    I don't hire people at all
    Right. So, sorry, I don't care what you reckon you would do to my cv, because in the real world any decent professor would never let some pencil pusher decide off their own bat that an applicant is "****" and throw the cv in the bin just because they didn't put a full stop in their PhD.


    (Original post by Suzanathema)
    Don't hate
    That is ironic given that you started this whole thing off with a pointless snide attack on 99% of the posters in the thread. Punctuation in PhD is what people who cross t's and dot i's for a living care about - not people WITH PhDs, so it's utterly irrelevant when applying for one, isn't it?
 
 
 

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