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TSR's 2012 Tuition Fees Tracker - how much are universities charging in 2012? watch

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    (Original post by RK)
    What realistically were universities going to do though. Was not one of the reasons for considering fee rises because universities needed extra funding if they were to remain competitive on the world stage? Yet when the plan were announced they came with a massive cut in funding from the Government. This mean that on average unis would need to charge £7000 to maintain their existing funding levels. If they were to get any of the extra funding they needed then they were going to have to charge more. Yet the Government seemed to think an average pf £7500 was realistic. Looking at the situation, was an average of £7500 actually realistic? It would really only be possible if some institutions were actual able to take a cut in funding or a tiny increase - this was never a realistic option for any institution. So what we're seeing is really the only workable outcome from the plan the Government set out, unless the universities were going to suffer and see their standards fall. This doesn't mean the plans are good for students and indeed, in opinion they are not (putting too much of a mental deterrent on people form the poorest backgrounds and an actual financial deterrent from more middle class families) but because of the Governments decisions, this is the only thing which can happen without there being even worse problems. I'm maddening that the universities have been put in to such positions.
    I kind of agree with you but why can't some universities take a decrease in funding? Is it just because they are now able to set their own fees (and so don't want to)? Or do they genuinely need the money? In which case, shouldn't they be looking for other ways to reduce costs?
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    (Original post by -honeybee-)
    I kind of agree with you but why can't some universities take a decrease in funding? Is it just because they are now able to set their own fees (and so don't want to)? Or do they genuinely need the money? In which case, shouldn't they be looking for other ways to reduce costs?
    A decrease in funding would be difficult for a university to do. They would need to reduce investment in new facilities, perhaps lay staff off, increase class sizes, reduce contact time, cut courses. None of which students want to see and none of which make a universities a better place. Which university would want to be the first to reduce their funding? Which would want to say we're going to have to reduce the amount we spend per student when some league tables take this in to account - they would be forcing themselves down the league tables.

    Additionally, universities had been saying they needed an increase in funding if they were to remain competitive with international universities, seek out and keep the highest quality staff and remain at the fore front of knowledge, research and innovation in the fields they cover. If a university thinks they need more funding to keep their positions and quality, then a cut in funding is surely an indication they would have to take a step backwards and become a worse institution.

    So then we have a situation where universities are simultaneously given the option for increased funding and a massive cut in teaching budgets.

    To remain in the same position they need increase fees to around £7000. To get that bit more funding they say they need so much to sustain their positions they need to go higher. Yet to raise a little bit above £6000 they need to start increasing their spending on widening accesses (which pretty much now only lies with the universities after the Government cut the schemes they used to run for widening access). So it's not even as if universities will get the full funding from higher fees given there are conditions put in place that require them to spend more on areas that previously were funding by the Government from a different pot of money.

    It's all seems absolute madness and sadly seems to be making the universities out to be the bad guys. Yet really most have little choice after the decisions the Government has made.
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    (Original post by -honeybee-)
    I kind of agree with you but why can't some universities take a decrease in funding? Is it just because they are now able to set their own fees (and so don't want to)? Or do they genuinely need the money? In which case, shouldn't they be looking for other ways to reduce costs?
    A decrease in funding would be difficult for a university to do. They would need to reduce investment in new facilities, perhaps lay staff off, increase class sizes, reduce contact time, cut courses. None of which students want to see and none of which make a universities a better place. Which university would want to be the first to reduce their funding? Which would want to say we're going to have to reduce the amount we spend per student when some league tables take this in to account - they would be forcing themselves down the league tables.

    Additionally, universities had been saying they needed an increase in funding if they were to remain competitive with international universities, seek out and keep the highest quality staff and remain at the fore front of knowledge, research and innovation in the fields they cover. If a university thinks they need more funding to keep their positions and quality, then a cut in funding is surely an indication they would have to take a step backwards and become a worse institution.

    So then we have a situation where universities are simultaneously given the option for increased funding and a massive cut in teaching budgets.

    To remain in the same position they need increase fees to around £7000. To get that bit more funding they say they need so much to sustain their positions they need to go higher. Yet to raise a little bit above £6000 they need to start increasing their spending on widening accesses (which pretty much now only lies with the universities after the Government cut the schemes they used to run for widening access). So it's not even as if universities will get the full funding from higher fees given there are conditions put in place that require them to spend more on areas that previously were funding by the Government from a different pot of money.

    It's all seems absolute madness and sadly seems to be making the universities out to be the bad guys. Yet really most have little choice after the decisions the Government has made.
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    (Original post by RK)
    What realistically were universities going to do though. Was not one of the reasons for considering fee rises because universities needed extra funding if they were to remain competitive on the world stage? Yet when the plan were announced they came with a massive cut in funding from the Government. This mean that on average unis would need to charge £7000 to maintain their existing funding levels. If they were to get any of the extra funding they needed then they were going to have to charge more. Yet the Government seemed to think an average pf £7500 was realistic. Looking at the situation, was an average of £7500 actually realistic? It would really only be possible if some institutions were actual able to take a cut in funding or a tiny increase - this was never a realistic option for any institution. So what we're seeing is really the only workable outcome from the plan the Government set out, unless the universities were going to suffer and see their standards fall. This doesn't mean the plans are good for students and indeed, in opinion they are not (putting too much of a mental deterrent on people form the poorest backgrounds and an actual financial deterrent from more middle class families) but because of the Governments decisions, this is the only thing which can happen without there being even worse problems. I'm maddening that the universities have been put in to such positions.
    What I don't understand is why we have this problem I'm really sorry if I sound thick but I can't see why our unis tuition fees need to be higher than those abroad (EU) ? I know the government has pulled out funding but even before this european universities were cheaper
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    (Original post by RK)
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    Thanks for explaining all that

    (Original post by Baula)
    What I don't understand is why we have this problem I'm really sorry if I sound thick but I can't see why our unis tuition fees need to be higher than those abroad (EU) ? I know the government has pulled out funding but even before this european universities were cheaper
    I know this wasn't addressed to me but isn't it all about standards? Someone was telling me the other day that you can do a masters in Sweden for free, but would you really want to? It doesn't have the same reputation as some British universities. Also the various European governments must be subsidising higher education more than it is/was in Britain.
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    (Original post by -honeybee-)

    I know this wasn't addressed to me but isn't it all about standards? Someone was telling me the other day that you can do a masters in Sweden for free, but would you really want to? It doesn't have the same reputation as some British universities. Also the various European governments must be subsidising higher education more than it is/was in Britain.
    Ok but not all are like this. The example I had in my head initially was CULeuven in Belgium. According to it's website:

    (Original post by KULeuven)
    A full-time programme of 60 study
    points amounts to €567,80.
    (2009-2010).
    http://www.kuleuven.be/admissions/pdf/studying.pdf

    I searched for world university rankings and clicked the first link which was this:
    http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u...1/top-200.html

    or for European rankings only (as this is what my post was about)
    http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u...11/europe.html

    On the European one it's ranked at 34. Universty of Sheffield is ranked below this at 45, yet it will have charged around £3000 that year to students and plans to charge £9000 in the future.

    This is what I don't understand - How good universities abroad can afford to be so much cheaper than here.
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    (Original post by Baula)
    Ok but not all are like this. The example I had in my head initially was CULeuven in Belgium. According to it's website:

    (2009-2010).
    http://www.kuleuven.be/admissions/pdf/studying.pdf

    I searched for world university rankings and clicked the first link which was this:
    http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u...1/top-200.html

    or for European rankings only (as this is what my post was about)
    http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u...11/europe.html

    On the European one it's ranked at 34. Universty of Sheffield is ranked below this at 45, yet it will have charged around £3000 that year to students and plans to charge £9000 in the future.

    This is what I don't understand - How good universities abroad can afford to be so much cheaper than here.
    Rankings are the best way to determine the value of a degree/university. Do you want to work in Belgium? Probably not, so which uni do you think is more well known in Britain? And as I said before maybe the Belgian government subsidises higher education more than the British govt.
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    How often's the map updated?

    To be honest I'm surprised that there are actually 4 greens. Obviously the universities were going to blow the coalition's predictions (or public predictions :ninja:) to pieces, but I'd have thought nobody'd go below £8.5k.
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    (Original post by -honeybee-)
    Rankings are the best way to determine the value of a degree/university. Do you want to work in Belgium? Probably not, so which uni do you think is more well known in Britain? And as I said before maybe the Belgian government subsidises higher education more than the British govt.
    You mean for prospective employers?

    As for Belgium.. I am thinking of working over there actually I've got something stupid like 5 months off uni before my second year starts in September so I'm planning to start learning Flemish :cool:
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    (Original post by Baula)
    You mean for prospective employers?

    As for Belgium.. I am thinking of working over there actually I've got something stupid like 5 months off uni before my second year starts in September so I'm planning to start learning Flemish :cool:
    Yes, in terms of employment.

    And Flemish isn't the only language spoken in Belgium...
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    University of Brighton to charge maximum £9000 fee

    http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/89811..._tuition_fees/
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    (Original post by -honeybee-)
    Yes, in terms of employment.

    And Flemish isn't the only language spoken in Belgium...
    I know they also speak French but if I move over there I'll be living the flemish region because my boyfriend's family all live around there

    It's just an idea at the moment... I've really enjoyed it in Belgium over the last few summers and I kind of like the idea of maybe teaching abroad someday. I would only move once I was fluent in the language though.
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    (Original post by Baula)
    I know they also speak French but if I move over there I'll be living the flemish region because my boyfriend's family all live around there

    It's just an idea at the moment... I've really enjoyed it in Belgium over the last few summers and I kind of like the idea of maybe teaching abroad someday. I would only move once I was fluent in the language though.
    I thought the Belgian uni you chose was a really weird example, now it makes sense...
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    Radio 4 Today programme is reporting Hull and Lincoln charging £9000
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    Range of announcements this morning!

    University of Bristol - £9000 fees (though like most, they will charge less to people from poorer backgrounds)
    University of Hull - £9000 fees
    University of Brighton - £9000 fees
    York St John University - £8500 fees

    All have been added to the map.

    The University of Lincoln has also been said to be charging £9000, but as yet no source on their website - I'll add them to the map in a minute.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Radio 4 Today programme is reporting Hull and Lincoln charging £9000

    (Original post by RK)
    Range of announcements this morning!

    University of Bristol - £9000 fees (though like most, they will charge less to people from poorer backgrounds)
    University of Hull - £9000 fees
    University of Brighton - £9000 fees
    York St John University - £8500 fees

    All have been added to the map.

    The University of Lincoln has also been said to be charging £9000, but as yet no source on their website - I'll add them to the map in a minute.
    Email to hull students this morning:

    19th April 2011



    Dear Students

    As you are aware, the basis of funding for undergraduate degree programmes is changing for the 2012 entry. A cut in the government grant for teaching of 60% will be imposed; the shortfall must be made up through a combination of raised tuition fees plus efficiency savings.

    As a result of these changes, the University of Hull has today announced that it intends to charge a fee of £9000 for full-time UK/EU undergraduates entering in 2012, subject to approval by the Office for Fair Access (OFFA). I enclose for your information a press release which has today been circulated to local media. Please note that fee arrangements for currently-registered students will not change as a result of this announcement.

    This fee will enable the University to continue to invest in providing an outstanding and distinctive student experience and further enhancements to student services and facilities at both its Hull and Scarborough Campuses. The University of Hull has always been committed to providing students with first-class facilities and an ideal environment in which to live and learn. The University of Hull has performed consistently ahead of the sector average across a wide range of access and retention measures for full-time students. Our proposal to charge £9000 is accompanied by a commitment to provide a comprehensive package of financial support to help students regardless of background or ability to pay. This package will concentrate on sustaining our current excellent performance in ensuring fair access through increased outreach activity, improving retention, fee waivers and a flexible package of financial support measures.

    Further details on these proposals will be available once they have been agreed with the Office for Fair Access in July 2011.

    The University consistently ranks in the top ten mainstream universities in the National Student Survey (NSS). These investments will further enhance the student experience at the University. The most recent Quality Assurance Agency (QAA) institutional review once again acknowledged the excellence of the University’s provision, expressing broad confidence in both the quality of our courses and our management of academic standards. We are proud of our academic reputation, which reflects the high quality of the education we provide, and which serves our graduates well in their future careers.

    We are committed to providing access to all students with the ability and motivation to benefit from an education at Hull. We are therefore putting in place a flexible programme of additional financial support to support fair access for all. The University of Hull currently exceeds the benchmark and the national average for the vast majority of the indicators used to measure performance in the Access Agreement (e.g. remaining above the national average for entrants from state schools or colleges, specified socio-economic classes, low participation neighbourhoods and those in receipt of disabled students’ allowance). We recognise that enriching the diversity of our undergraduate community and further developing our ability to attract a wide range of students will be a key element of our future success.

    We are going to be enhancing our provision of additional study opportunities and industry work experience placements and internships to provide students that choose to come and study at the University of Hull with a blended student experience; helping them develop the employability skills they will need for work, whilst at the same time guaranteeing a first class teaching and learning experience. According to the 2008/9 figures, 90% of graduates were employed or went on to further study within six months of leaving.

    The Careers service offers online advice, information and support with career planning, job vacancies, placements and internships, exploring opportunities, further study options and funding. The service also offers confidential guidance, skills workshops, interviews and assessment centres. This is a facility that students can continue to use after they graduate.

    In terms of financial support for those students entering in 2012 the following principles are in place:

    · Changes will not affect students who are already at university – or those who enter in September 2011

    · As is the case currently, tuition fees will not have to be paid upfront

    · Financial support will be available for UK students from low income backgrounds

    · Student loans (to cover fees and maintenance) will be available for all students, regardless of family income

    · Student loans will continue to be available for all students, who will only start to pay the loan back after graduation and once they are earning over £21,000

    · Any outstanding repayments will be written off after 30 years

    · Maintenance grants of £3,250 will be available to students from households earning less than £25,000 – partial grants will be available to students from households with incomes up to £42,000.

    I believe that our student recruitment process is robust enough to deal with the changes we are going through. The combination of fees and additional support that we are putting in place will mean no prospective student should feel that an undergraduate experience at Hull is beyond their grasp.

    Students who choose the University of Hull know that they are going to have an excellent student experience and will reap the benefits of graduating from a University with a recognised stature on the global stage. This will add real value to the career path they choose in the future.





    Professor Calie Pistorius

    Vice-Chancellor
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    (Original post by The_Goose)
    Email to hull students this morning:
    Thanks for sharing that. Does anyone else have emails from their universities about the fee increases they can share?
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    Sheffield Hallam University announces fees of £8500 - I've added them to the map.

    The reports are that Bournemouth University will also be charging up to £9000 a year, but will charge less than this for 90% of their courses.
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    (Original post by chrislpp)
    Now that the caps have been lifted, Oxbridge will charge £40,000 per year and at least one 24 carot family heirloom. No exceptions.

    From their site:



    This is what we get for voting in the Tories.
    i like your signature - sooo true haha
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    Does anyone foresee disgruntled students taking universities to court saying for 9k a year some half-assed lectures and a seminar once a week isn't really cutting it for value for money?
 
 
 
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