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    (Original post by shoshin)
    I'm not sure that there is a very strong logical connection between your first paragraph and your second one. But if it really is that serious a matter to be wrongly accused of trolling, then I unreservedly withdraw any such insinuation and apologise to the OP.

    The OP is brand new to TSR, but I now look forward (being from a similar background, and heading for a similar Oxford college) to reading many future posts from her, as her situation progresses.
    Um, there is a clear connection to my mind. My point is that when you're trying to reach out for help, having people accusing you of lying - even if that's just random people off the Internet - can be the last thing you need and can prevent you getting the help you require. It takes gut to admit you have problems, let alone go to your Senior Tutor and say that you're having problems like the OP has and if the OP is genuine, she needs as much support as she can lay her hands on.

    The situation might seem ludicrous to you but weirder **** has happened at Oxford (trust me) and so whilst the OP could perhaps be a troll, there's a strong chance she's not. When you're taken aback by what's happening to you, others accusing you of lying can lead to you questioning yourself, thinking you should just put up with **** and shut up and can have bad consequences (as happened in my case) :yes:

    Sorry if the link wasn't made clearer before but hopefully now you see that my post makes sense :yes:
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    (Original post by Zoedotdot)
    I have several northern friends from comprehensives (and I am from a comprehensive myself) and I've never experienced or seen this kind of thing at my medium sized Cambridge college. I would say that the OP's experience is more the regrettable exception than the rule
    Oh fantastic Reading through this thread terrified me. I'm not quite your archetypal northerner, but I do go to a northern state comprehensive, don't come from a massively well-off background, and do have a rather strong regional accent, and I'd hate to think that anyone at Cambridge would have a problem with me if I did end up there. Or even that I'd be excluded because they'd all been to top private schools or whatever, and we thus had less in common.

    Do northerners really not stand out? I mean, not that I have some sort of persecution complex just because I come from above the Watford Gap But I did feel when I went down for my interview that people spoke to me differently, and that I stood out, because I had a rather different accent to them and didn't sound as intelligent to talk to. Maybe that was just those people though
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    I'm not lying. I'm quite insulted that people think I am
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    (Original post by lissi08)
    I'm not lying. I'm quite insulted that people think I am
    :jumphug:
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    Why do people have the notion that being Northern is some sort of stigma? We are just people with our own accents and culture just like other regions in the UK, we are not aliens from another planet. If anybody makes remarks about the way that I talk when I get to university then they will most certainly be told what to do with their opinions.
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    I'm not an Oxbridge undergrad, and I wouldn't want to be one. I think you take heed of everyone's advice and leave Oxford. Birmingham is a good University. Take your chances and get out of there
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    I'd have nutted the cow who butted in your conversation about the correct pronunciation of 'dance'. Seriously.
    Can you tell what kind of background I have?

    Anyway, go where you're happy.
    You're still the first in your family in HE. Your happiness is a lot more important than Oxford. You can at least look back and say, "I've been there, done that - and I hated it". We learn from our mistakes.
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    (Original post by kerily)
    Oh fantastic Reading through this thread terrified me. I'm not quite your archetypal northerner, but I do go to a northern state comprehensive, don't come from a massively well-off background, and do have a rather strong regional accent, and I'd hate to think that anyone at Cambridge would have a problem with me if I did end up there. Or even that I'd be excluded because they'd all been to top private schools or whatever, and we thus had less in common.

    Do northerners really not stand out? I mean, not that I have some sort of persecution complex just because I come from above the Watford Gap But I did feel when I went down for my interview that people spoke to me differently, and that I stood out, because I had a rather different accent to them and didn't sound as intelligent to talk to. Maybe that was just those people though
    I have quoted and replied to you in detail in the Emma thread so as not to derail this one too much, but feel that I should clarify to the thread at large that it is only a very small minority of people at Oxbridge who feel that being northern is an awful thing. And you are likely to find people like that in many other universities as well. It is unfortunate that the OP appears to have happened across people such as these.
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    (Original post by lissi08)
    I'm thinking about leaving Oxford.

    I've done two terms of my first year and have been unhappy from very early on. I am very lonely. I have no close friends and find my college very gossipy and cliquey. I'm friendly and sociable but most of the people in college are very indifferent to me. Some purposely choose not to include me. I find I go whole days without seeing a soul.

    Sometimes I wonder whether the world I come from and my outlook on life makes me unappealing as a friend to Oxford students. I've been brought up in a totally working-class family. I'm one of few in my family that did A Levels and the first to go on to higher education.

    Some little things that have happened are stupid but have really hurt me and knocked my confidence.
    Once I was talking to an American student about Strictly Come Dancing and a girl standing adjacent to our conversation suddenly butted in and said "In England we say DARNCE not dance."
    Another time I went to the college bar and ordered half a lager and the boy next to me rolled his eyes. He proceeded to sit down at the table I was sat at and make a speech about how girls should drink wine and how Carlsberg was the cheapest ****test drink he'd ever tasted. I've been drinking Carlsberg since I was 15 and funnily enough, I actually like the taste of it. But in saying something in situations like these maybe it just puts more people off including me rather than them realising that there is a world outside of middle-class London.

    It makes me very sad when I see my home friends at other places having the time of their life. More often now when I phone them they are always too busy for a chat. I feel like I am relying on them and they don't really need me any more.

    I am getting more and more depressed and downheared and I wish I had never applied to Oxford. Because once I got in I felt I couldn't possibly turn it down.

    I made a few phonecalls and I have a place at the University of Birmingham if I want it.

    Being honest with myself I know I would be much happier in the completely different atmosphere at Birmingham.

    But at the back of my mind...and my parents... is job prospects. People are telling me no matter how miserable I am I can't drop out because its oxford.

    I'm running out of time to tell Birmingham if I want the place. I have absolutely hated the time I have spent at Oxford but for job reasons only am hesitant to firm Birmingham. I don't know what to do.
    I'm going to add my two cents worth here and it may not follow the suit of others but I hope you will read what I have to say.

    Firstly I'm sorry to hear you haven't been having a great time at university given that I'm guessing you must have been looking forward to starting at Oxford all summer long.

    My opinion is; don't dropout! Well not just yet......

    Your situation is not too different to mine. Ok I don't come from a working class background but I still didn't quite enjoy the medical school environment at first as I thought I would mainly due to the distance from home and being surrounded by people whom I initially felt I had very little in common with e.g. I don't drink and social scene revolved around drinking, most people seem more into rugby than football etc. I felt very isolated. But then I realised that there was a lot more to med school than just a small group of students and medical school and the wider university was large enough to find a group of people I could relate with and form close ties. I threw myself into many activities in the university and wider community and ultimately at the end of it all, I reminded myself that I was here first and foremost for my education and because my ultimate goal is to become a doctor and I wasn't going to all the opinions or personalities of a handful of jackasses derail my ambitions.

    I'm not sure if you did, but you didn't highlight any issues with your academic work and I therefore assumed that this hasn't been a problem. Remember that first and foremost you are there for your education and whilst having a great time at university makes the experience a whole lot more interesting, it isn't the most important factor (well for me anyways). If your assessment results etc are not an issue then on that I basis I see no reason why you should leave the course.

    Secondly, you will meet "pricks" wherever you go in life whether it's Oxford, Cambridge, Birmingham, Manchester, Exeter and further on in your career be it in Medicine, Law etc. But by that same virtue you are also bound to meet plenty of decent people and I am sure in a university as large and diverse as Oxford there will be at least a handful if not more students who come from a similar social background and may be going through similar issues. You aren't alone. Also remember this next time anyone tries to put you down or make you feel bad:
    you have a right to be there. You applied, you were deemed to have the potential, you got the grades and you have as much right to be studying there as the next person so don't ever let anyone make you feel like you are less deserving. The fact that a decent university like Birmingham are more than willing to snap your hand off and give you a place without having made a formal application just goes to show what a good student you are.

    I would also like to think that these people making comments are either doing so because they feel threatened by your presence i.e. working class student on an equal footing with them and/or it's just indicitive of their level of maturity which we hope they'll grow out of. Either way they don't sound like decent people so just don't hang around with them and if you can't avoid them don't let them get you down. If them come up with their audacious remarks again just laugh it off and try and comeback at time with a few lines of your own.

    If you allow this situation to get you down and leave Oxford, you may well regret it down the line. Now I don't in terms of career prospects as I do believe if you did well at B'ham your chances of success in the future would be as good. You worked so hard and gave so much and must be truly passionate about what you study if you could get an offer from Oxford. Many brilliant applicants are left disappointed every year. By getting an offer you have proved yourself to be the best of the best and just as deserving as Rupert from Eton or Harriet from Harrogate School etc. If you quit based on the attitudes and ignorances of a select few then you will have let ignorance win.

    This is no different to back in the days when institutional racism or social elitism was rife in the top career sectors and university programmes like Medicine, Law or Economics. I'm sure back then there were students from "minority" sectors be it based on ethnicity or social class who had unpleasant experiences like you did and on more than one ocassion thought about throwing in the towel and cutting their losses. But they decided to stick at it and show that they were good enough, that they deserved to be there and that they weren't going to allow a bunch of morons from preventing them from achieving them dreams and aspirations. I fear that if you quit Oxford because of this, you would simply be allowing these people to win and that would be a real shame. I felt like quitting numerous times during my first year and I too had an offer from Birmingham (something else we have in common), SOAS and LSE to mention but a few and this was without making an application formally etc. But ultimately I decided to stick at it because despite the setbacks (and believe there are plenty at my medical school....plenty), this is the career I want to do and I'm not going to let a select few tell me that I'm less deserving or worth any less because they think so. Ultimately I can only be judged on my results and achievements and further afield only the Good Lord himself can judge, the same person who judges us all (if you're religious).

    Four years on, ok there's still times where life feels like ****. There are some people (students and dare I say "professionals) who can sometimes make the experience unpleasant and the endless number of exams and assessments don't make it any less painful. But this is what I want to do and if this is what it's going to take, then I'm prepared to accept the challenge and win.

    I think you should stick it out till the end of the academic year at least (which isn't too far away) and once you get your end of year results/reports etc. re-assess your options again and consider whether the situation at Oxford is too much for you to handle. I'm sure there must be pastoral support in the form of pastoral tutors, counselling, student nightline and support groups etc. Try finding someone to talk about your issues. You really are not alone and certainly not the first and neither will you be the last student to be in such a position.

    If you do decide to go to Birmingham only do so having thought about the whole situation and make sure you do so with no regrets. The last thing you'd want is years down the line to look back rueing the fact you didn't carry on at Oxford, accessing pastoral support and fulfilling your potential.

    Don't let a handful of morons stop you from achieving your dreams.
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    And if it helps if anyone gives you anymore grief I'm more than happy to hop on the train to Oxford and sort them out hehe
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    (Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
    Um, there is a clear connection to my mind. My point is that when you're trying to reach out for help, having people accusing you of lying - even if that's just random people off the Internet - can be the last thing you need and can prevent you getting the help you require. It takes gut to admit you have problems, let alone go to your Senior Tutor and say that you're having problems like the OP has and if the OP is genuine, she needs as much support as she can lay her hands on.

    The situation might seem ludicrous to you but weirder **** has happened at Oxford (trust me) and so whilst the OP could perhaps be a troll, there's a strong chance she's not. When you're taken aback by what's happening to you, others accusing you of lying can lead to you questioning yourself, thinking you should just put up with **** and shut up and can have bad consequences (as happened in my case) :yes:

    Sorry if the link wasn't made clearer before but hopefully now you see that my post makes sense :yes:
    I didn't say that the connection wasn't clear, Lonely. I thought that I had shown in my post that it did make sense. I said that I didn't think it was strong. I meant that IMHO comparing your own harrowing and lengthy experience to that of being doubted by two posters out of umpteen on a TSR thread, was perhaps pushing it a bit. :dontknow:
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    (Original post by Warrior King)
    .
    Some excellent advice here from Warrior King, +rep. If I were you I would digest all his post and have a good long hard think about what you really want to do before making any rash decisions. Really commendable post there.
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    Have you tried joining university-wide societies/sports teams? (I'm assuming uni-wide societies exsit, I don't know much about the social side of Oxford). That could really help you find people who you have a common interest with. Or maybe try speaking to new people in your college at dinner/etc, especially if all years live in college, that's at least 300 people for you to meet. There are 1000s of non-"posh" people at Oxford, and obviously the vast majority of people with Southern accents aren't snobs so even your college societies and sports teams will have lots of people you could potentially be friends with.
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    (Original post by shoshin)
    I didn't say that the connection wasn't clear, Lonely. I thought that I had shown in my post that it did make sense. I said that I didn't think it was strong. I meant that IMHO comparing your own harrowing and lengthy experience to that of being doubted by two posters out of umpteen on a TSR thread, was perhaps pushing it a bit. :dontknow:
    I wasn't making a direct comparison, or at least that wasn't what I was intending. What I meant is that if you're already worried that people don't believe you, it can only take the slightest thing to push you over the edge/break you.

    The thing that exploded my degree/brain/health/life was something trivial which on its own, wouldn't have had any impact at all. It was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

    Basically I'm just saying it's not nice to doubt people who are looking for help when you don't have a particularly strong reason to My tutor had no good reason for doubting me, which was my thinking behind the comparison. I'm just saying the OP might sound to you a bit farfetched and troll like but you're not there yet
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    (Original post by lissi08)
    I'm not lying. I'm quite insulted that people think I am
    Don't worry, hardly any of us think that you are trolling; just me and oldmantax.

    Could you make further posts on this thread over the next few weeks, to let us know how the third term pans out at Oxford, what decision you make regarding Birmingham, and how things turn out? It would help me a lot because I'm going to be in your shoes in a few months time. TSR is all about helping each other.

    Good luck
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    Birmingham is an excellent university and you are obviously a brilliant candidate, I'm sure you won't find it too difficult to find a job either way. These should be the best years of your life, so enjoy them!
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    (Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
    ... the OP might sound to you a bit farfetched and troll like but you're not there yet
    As Kerily says, you are really setting the scene for us 2011 freshers! I hope not too many potential applicants have decided against it as a result of this thread.
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    (Original post by 21stcenturyphantom)
    Some excellent advice here from Warrior King, +rep. If I were you I would digest all his post and have a good long hard think about what you really want to do before making any rash decisions. Really commendable post there.
    Thanks but I'm a little surprised by the amount of people willing to advise the OP to "quit now and go to Birmingham and have fun".

    People told me to quit when I felt like I wasn't enjoying my time at medical school. If had followed that advice without trying to improve the situation, I wouldn't be able to follow my desired path of becoming a doctor (it's kind of a rule that if you quit Medicine at one uk university for whatever reason, you cannot be admitted ever again to a medical programme at any university in the UK). If I had done that I would have definately regretted it for the rest of my life. OK now I am not the OP but I don't think the OP would have applied to Oxford and subsequently got an offer if she wasn't good enough academically and wasn't deeply passionate for her course.

    Having fun is great and I can't imagine many other universities having the diversity of clubs and societies that Oxford has even though the nightlife may not compare to the bigger cities like Birmingham, Manchester and London. Oxford is a very unique environment and only a select few will have the distinction as getting to study at an institution where so many great figures from history, science etc once studied before going onto leaving their impact and lasting legacy on the world. That's not to say that couldn't be achieved anywhere else though.

    I know that if I had quit without at least giving the course a try and giving it time and making the effort to really overcome whatever obstacles were in my way, I would have regretted it for the rest of my life. The OP has a wonderful opportunity here and I simply do not want her to make a rash decision based on narrow mindedness of a few poncy wannabe aristocrats.

    Birmingham university will have also have its fair share of characters as do most of the big universities in this country. As I said before it is the same in every walk of life be it in education or the professional working environment. The important thing is to not let people drag you down or make you feel less deserving as you as much right as they do to aim high and work towards the best things in life.

    I think that by going to B'ham it would be a case of simply curling up and shying away when the going gets tough. You are worthy of your place and make sure those who think otherwise are fully aware of that. If you walk away without making a rational decision, you'd be allowing this ignorance to win.
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    (Original post by emac1987)
    i'd say don't leave. yea you might be lonely but that doesn't mean ur gonna be miserable. just concentrate on your studies 100% and get a first. its only 3 years anyway. i come from a uni similar to birmingham and yea i did get a job but it was still difficult. you'll find it much easier from oxford. so in summary: 3 years of hell still worth it for 40 - 50 years of your career. uni isn't about fun its about getting a good first job! if u wanna have fun go for a gap year...
    Only 3 years? 3 years is a long time in your life of having no friends and being miserable
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    (Original post by shoshin)
    As Kerily says, you are really setting the scene for us 2011 freshers! I hope not too many potential applicants have decided against it as a result of this thread.
    Believe me, if I wanted to drive you all away from Oxford I really could and would I spend a lot of my time encouraging people to apply in spite of what happened to me, because I don't believe it would happen to anyone else.

    Better?
 
 
 
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