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    (Original post by xCHiiBiEverlastingx)
    OP, are there no positives whatsoever? Would it help to draw up a table or something? I often find it helpful just talking out loud to myself (preferably not in a public place ) and I try to listen to what my gut tells me. That way you should be able to come to a decision.
    This is of course a life-changing step you are contemplating here. Being in such an excellent university merits that much more consideration as to whether to stay or not-- but there comes a point when personal happiness is so low that it is just not worth persevering with, no matter the prestige or status of the institution. That is to say, try to stick it out as long as poss and try to turn things around. Things might improve, but if not then at least you can leave knowing you genuinely gave it a good go. This means you may have to forego Brum this year. It does sound as if you accept them now, it will be a bit of a rushed decision, which may bring fresh problems of its own. If you do decide to leave Oxford, if anything I reckon you should take a year out to recuperate and recover your confidence, work and play hard, and then reapply to a fresh set of unis that you feel you would be happy in.
    The most important thing you must do NOW is go talk to as many tutors/advisors as poss for help. Hell, talk to anyone who will listen. They know you better than we do, and can help you make the best, most informed decision for yourself. And you won't have been the first, so don't feel bad.

    Sorry to hear this btw, do hope it gets sorted soon!!




    What?


    What........ what ?
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    Go talk to the Proctors, they'll be able to give you more information.
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    I'm at Cambridge, and I've found some people do make stupid remarks (although for me they're usually about me being stupid..).
    Also, even the demonstrators seem shocked that I'm at Cambridge, and as though by simply being here, I have fulfilled my potential (in light of my background).
    The point is, I'm sure you will find lots of people like you around, maybe just not in your college? I've made loads of friends outside college, and go to lots of the university wide events when I can to meet new people. Seeing as you've survived a year almost, two more is not that much..
    Although if it really is too much to cope with, then Birmingham is a great place to go. Even that will take a time to get used to though.. Hope you do what's best for you
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    (Original post by Txi)
    What........ what ?
    About Chinese people being inherently working class :hmmm:
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    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    OP made it to Oxford coming from a family of people who mostly went no further than GCSE. I'm sure she recognises an obstacle when she sees one. I see your point, and it is a very regrettable thing to get so far only to be at odds with the place. But ultimately she won't do well if she's not happy. To be frank I don't think the kind of people who will actually butt into a conversation between two strangers to pass judgment on their accents will be very quick to apologise for the comment. Above all, it's not about the factual accuracy or significance of such a statement itself, it's the attitude of sheer arrogance that it carries. I'm not sure I myself could do well in an environment where I was being judged, openly or otherwise, every time I opened my mouth. If OP finds a way to make it work, that's obviously the best solution. But it's not as if she's at war with herself, she just feels pressured by the expectations placed on her by her family and friends.
    I understand the situation fully but what I am saying is that the OP shouldn't allow these people to dictate her career path. As I pointed out I have had my fair share of similar experiences and even more surprisingly and shockingly I have witnessed racism first hand from patients on the wards. Obviously it leaves an unpleasant taste in the mouth and at times I wonder whether this is all worth it. But you just have to remind yourself why you are there and that you have a right to be there. And patients are made aware that their behaviour won't be tolerated and it is dealt with appropriately by the ward staff etc. If we allowed life's problems to bring us down and shyed away from the first sign of trouble, we would never get anywhere in life.

    She is at Oxford, one the of best universities in the country if not the world. The opportunities that lie before her should she complete her studies successfully are unrivalled. That's not to she couldn't be equally successful if she went elsewhere but to most extents and purposes, Oxford does occupy that position of one of the top universities.

    No obstacle is too difficult to negotiate and more often than not the first year is often one of the most difficult emotionally in having to adjust to a new environment, away from your friends and family, with new people some you will have a lot in common with and others you won't. This is no different to any other situation in life and just because of the stereotypes associated with a place like Oxford doesn't instantly mean that the situation would be any different at Birmingham. Birmingham has its fair share of morons especially at the medical and dental schools and most of its courses ask for high grades (at ABB/AAB) so you are going to be surrounded by competetive individuals.

    I can't really keep going over the same point constantly.
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    Of its genre, this has got to be the most successful thread I have ever seen in the Oxford forums.
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    (Original post by shoshin)
    Of its genre, this has got to be the most successful thread I have ever seen in the Oxford forums.
    You'll find that any thread discussing the relative merits of Oxford or Cambridge will be much busier (particularly those with the potential for a negative slant, it has to be said). People from all over the forum pitch in with anecdotal evidence for and against the system. It's an interesting little phenomenon.
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    (Original post by lissi08)
    I'm thinking about leaving Oxford.

    I've done two terms of my first year and have been unhappy from very early on. I am very lonely. I have no close friends and find my college very gossipy and cliquey. I'm friendly and sociable but most of the people in college are very indifferent to me. Some purposely choose not to include me. I find I go whole days without seeing a soul.

    Sometimes I wonder whether the world I come from and my outlook on life makes me unappealing as a friend to Oxford students. I've been brought up in a totally working-class family. I'm one of few in my family that did A Levels and the first to go on to higher education.

    Some little things that have happened are stupid but have really hurt me and knocked my confidence.
    Once I was talking to an American student about Strictly Come Dancing and a girl standing adjacent to our conversation suddenly butted in and said "In England we say DARNCE not dance."
    Another time I went to the college bar and ordered half a lager and the boy next to me rolled his eyes. He proceeded to sit down at the table I was sat at and make a speech about how girls should drink wine and how Carlsberg was the cheapest ****test drink he'd ever tasted. I've been drinking Carlsberg since I was 15 and funnily enough, I actually like the taste of it. But in saying something in situations like these maybe it just puts more people off including me rather than them realising that there is a world outside of middle-class London.

    It makes me very sad when I see my home friends at other places having the time of their life. More often now when I phone them they are always too busy for a chat. I feel like I am relying on them and they don't really need me any more.

    I am getting more and more depressed and downheared and I wish I had never applied to Oxford. Because once I got in I felt I couldn't possibly turn it down.

    I made a few phonecalls and I have a place at the University of Birmingham if I want it.

    Being honest with myself I know I would be much happier in the completely different atmosphere at Birmingham.

    But at the back of my mind...and my parents... is job prospects. People are telling me no matter how miserable I am I can't drop out because its oxford.

    I'm running out of time to tell Birmingham if I want the place. I have absolutely hated the time I have spent at Oxford but for job reasons only am hesitant to firm Birmingham. I don't know what to do.

    hey lissi,
    don't give up on oxford. your complaints aren't really about the university, they are about other students. and brum just doesn't compare to oxford academically.
    note that wherever you go, including brum, you'll come across lots of upper-middle class students: and from them you can learn about the sort of people who have power in the media, politics, the civil service - useful if you want a career of that sort.
    i think you should hang on in, and wait - you'll find friends as time ticks by. me, i sometimes go to the oxford union - full of people looking to make friends (but maybe not for you if you are very adverse to posh folk).
    how about the college bar, or sports, or drama?
    good luck.
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    (Original post by Zoedotdot)
    It's an interesting little phenomenon.
    It certainly is. :banghead:

    Well, I've tried my best :getmecoat:
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    OP - Just about this time last year I was feeling exactly the same way.

    I had a really tough time at the start of the year. I'm quite self-conscious so didn't really get over involved in all of the social aspects of college at the beginning of my first year. People who know me know that I'm confident with people I know, but put me in a room of strangers and I have some issues. I'm also not a typical kind of girl - bit of a tomboy really, so had a hard time with some of the other girls (I utterly hate this Jack Wills-wearing posh-girl culture, so I didn't get along with a few people).

    It was tough to make myself go back after Christmas in my first year. But I did it and I'm sooo glad I did.

    I joined a university sports team, and if you pick the right team (contact me if you're interested in mine!!), you'll find the girls are so welcoming and non-judgemental. Most of my friends are from other colleges now, I spend all my time socialising with my sports team instead of with people from my college.

    Things may get better. I found that in second year I was on a completely different corridor with completely different people. I started leaving my door open and my neighbours would come in and say hi/ask for some milk/check in on me and I really got to know them.

    Overall? Don't worry too much about 'fitting in'. I'm the sort of person who always feels that there's a party happening somewhere that I'm not invited to. I was never the popular kid. But you know what? University isn't always like that.

    Sure, you see those people who have a clique of about 10 friends and they do everything together. Facebook makes it seem like they have a whale of a time.

    But there's nothing wrong with being independent. I have the sort of mates now that I can call up and head to the pub for a few pints if I want. But I don't have to either. I can go for days without seeing any of them and it's fine. I don't feel left out by them (although I still do a little bit in my college), as everything happens on my own terms.

    That was a rant. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk as I've had pretty much the same experience (working-class, tomboy-ish Midland-er. Got a fair few nasty quips in my time here!). My main piece of advice would be to get involved with a university society. Charities and causes are always full of super-sweet people that would love to meet you!!
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    Why don't you be strong and prove them all wrong? Thats the best way to shut them up. Running away doesn't do anything, just think if you don't stand up... then that will be someone else in your place next year and the year after....
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    (Original post by xCHiiBiEverlastingx)
    About Chinese people being inherently working class :hmmm:

    Your country/culture is controlled from the top down, agree ?

    Whereas ours is the opposite, bottom up, the working classes control culture and to some extent religion.

    The upper classes could not force their values on us due to the great distances involved.

    We control the collective " face " of our peoples.
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    (Original post by lissi08)
    I'm thinking about leaving Oxford.

    I've done two terms of my first year and have been unhappy from very early on. I am very lonely. I have no close friends and find my college very gossipy and cliquey. I'm friendly and sociable but most of the people in college are very indifferent to me. Some purposely choose not to include me. I find I go whole days without seeing a soul.

    Sometimes I wonder whether the world I come from and my outlook on life makes me unappealing as a friend to Oxford students. I've been brought up in a totally working-class family. I'm one of few in my family that did A Levels and the first to go on to higher education.

    Some little things that have happened are stupid but have really hurt me and knocked my confidence.
    Once I was talking to an American student about Strictly Come Dancing and a girl standing adjacent to our conversation suddenly butted in and said "In England we say DARNCE not dance."
    Another time I went to the college bar and ordered half a lager and the boy next to me rolled his eyes. He proceeded to sit down at the table I was sat at and make a speech about how girls should drink wine and how Carlsberg was the cheapest ****test drink he'd ever tasted. I've been drinking Carlsberg since I was 15 and funnily enough, I actually like the taste of it. But in saying something in situations like these maybe it just puts more people off including me rather than them realising that there is a world outside of middle-class London.

    It makes me very sad when I see my home friends at other places having the time of their life. More often now when I phone them they are always too busy for a chat. I feel like I am relying on them and they don't really need me any more.

    I am getting more and more depressed and downheared and I wish I had never applied to Oxford. Because once I got in I felt I couldn't possibly turn it down.

    I made a few phonecalls and I have a place at the University of Birmingham if I want it.

    Being honest with myself I know I would be much happier in the completely different atmosphere at Birmingham.

    But at the back of my mind...and my parents... is job prospects. People are telling me no matter how miserable I am I can't drop out because its oxford.

    I'm running out of time to tell Birmingham if I want the place. I have absolutely hated the time I have spent at Oxford but for job reasons only am hesitant to firm Birmingham. I don't know what to do.
    TBH it sounds like DARNCE girl might have been trying to be friendly and Carlsberg boy was hitting on you... the poshoes can be very overbearing if you've come out of a 'sit down, shut up and do as you're told' education system - sometimes they're not even trying. Generally you're better off assuming people aren't trying to piss you off.
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    This makes me so sad. Noone has the right to make you feel like this and you shouldn't have to sacrifice your education because of some disgusting ignorant people who for some reason think they are better than everyone else because they pronounce the vowels in their words. From what you've said, I can imagine that you worked ridiculously hard to get a place, were ridiculously proud when you got in, and excited to be one of the first people in your family to have done it. And I'm also thinking that you've probably dealt with more stuff and had a lot more life experience than half of these posh noodleheads will have faced even by the end of their degree in their fickle, bubblewrapped lives.

    I just think that you should makee sure you try every option. I've heard that in extreme circumstances, occasionally it is possible for you to change your college. Have you tried joining sports clubs or societies to find more likeminded people? They do exist, I swear. I know people there who are lovely and I haven't even started yet. I have a place to read Law there in October, and part of me is a little apprehensive about how people will respond to my piercings and tattoos ( they're not by any means excessive but definitely more than the average oxford student) as well as my mancunian accent and relatively reckless past, but in al honesty, I wouldn't wanna be friends with anyone who judged me for that.

    I really think you should make a final effort this term - don't let them win. You deserve to be there, and if you think that you would still like it there when you get over this little bump then you should definitely stay. But you need to be proactive in making things turn around, it won't just happen by itself x
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    (Original post by Joinedup)
    TBH it sounds like DARNCE girl might have been trying to be friendly and Carlsberg boy was hitting on you... the poshoes can be very overbearing if you've come out of a 'sit down, shut up and do as you're told' education system - sometimes they're not even trying. Generally you're better off assuming people aren't trying to piss you off.
    This, tbh.

    I can understand the OP wanting to leave due to lack of friends and loneliness, which she does mention. But the 2 examples she gave don't seem to be too bad. Of course I don't really know the tone of voice etc, but if someone had said the same things to me, I wouldnt have been offended.
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    If i were you, I'd stick at it. When you graduate you'll be able to say i did it and showed the middle finger to the snobbish rahs, who seem to doubt you just because of your background.
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    (Original post by lissi08)
    I'm thinking about leaving Oxford.

    I've done two terms of my first year and have been unhappy from very early on. I am very lonely. I have no close friends and find my college very gossipy and cliquey. I'm friendly and sociable but most of the people in college are very indifferent to me. Some purposely choose not to include me. I find I go whole days without seeing a soul.

    Sometimes I wonder whether the world I come from and my outlook on life makes me unappealing as a friend to Oxford students. I've been brought up in a totally working-class family. I'm one of few in my family that did A Levels and the first to go on to higher education.

    Some little things that have happened are stupid but have really hurt me and knocked my confidence.
    Once I was talking to an American student about Strictly Come Dancing and a girl standing adjacent to our conversation suddenly butted in and said "In England we say DARNCE not dance."
    Another time I went to the college bar and ordered half a lager and the boy next to me rolled his eyes. He proceeded to sit down at the table I was sat at and make a speech about how girls should drink wine and how Carlsberg was the cheapest ****test drink he'd ever tasted. I've been drinking Carlsberg since I was 15 and funnily enough, I actually like the taste of it. But in saying something in situations like these maybe it just puts more people off including me rather than them realising that there is a world outside of middle-class London.

    It makes me very sad when I see my home friends at other places having the time of their life. More often now when I phone them they are always too busy for a chat. I feel like I am relying on them and they don't really need me any more.

    I am getting more and more depressed and downheared and I wish I had never applied to Oxford. Because once I got in I felt I couldn't possibly turn it down.

    I made a few phonecalls and I have a place at the University of Birmingham if I want it.

    Being honest with myself I know I would be much happier in the completely different atmosphere at Birmingham.

    But at the back of my mind...and my parents... is job prospects. People are telling me no matter how miserable I am I can't drop out because its oxford.

    I'm running out of time to tell Birmingham if I want the place. I have absolutely hated the time I have spent at Oxford but for job reasons only am hesitant to firm Birmingham. I don't know what to do.
    Don't take this the wrong way but it sounds like, to a point, it's down to your attitude. It sounds like you're letting these people walk all over you; if someone tried to do that to me I'd say "well in.... wherever I'm from we say blahblahblah" or "actually I enjoy the taste, maybe it is cheap and '****' but nonetheless I find it pleasant, what are you drinking?" Does your college have psychological help? Maybe give that a try.
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    (Original post by alexs2602)
    Don't take this the wrong way but it sounds like, to a point, it's down to your attitude. It sounds like you're letting these people walk all over you; if someone tried to do that to me I'd say "well in.... wherever I'm from we say blahblahblah" or "actually I enjoy the taste, maybe it is cheap and '****' but nonetheless I find it pleasant, what are you drinking?" Does your college have psychological help? Maybe give that a try.
    Or if she doesn't feel like being so polite she could tell him to stuff his wine up his arse and to **** off whilst he's doing it.
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    (Original post by Athena)
    Your college and the people in your year sound awful! I never heard anybody talk like that while I was an undergrad at Wadham, and I think your year at whichever college must be horrible. I'm so sorry you're not having a good time! There was occasionally good-natured teasing about accents, but more the southerners getting stick from everyone else (my housemates included a Parisian, a northener, a Midlander (me) and an Essex girl).

    Are you a member of any sports clubs/do you write for one of the student papers/get involved in drama? Being a member of a college sports team (dare I say it, the boat club?) is a good way to get to know people and be included in social activities. Or if your year are all ***** (and it happens sometimes!), get involved in university sport! Join something like korfball/trampolining/archery where they are used to lots of beginners (and very friendly!). Get chatting to other people on your course after lectures and bring them to lunch or formal hall at your college. Talk to your college parents about how you feel!

    And next time someone makes a comment about your accent, just tell them "At least I don't speak like I've got a punt pole up my bum" and see how they react!

    People do leave Oxford. There's no shame in it if you're not happy there, because if you're not happy, you won't be able to flourish academically. Do you like the course at Oxford? Would you enjoy the course at Birmingham more? They're too important considerations.
    I think my year is just really cliquey. Half the people you honestly do not see. and the others are all very similar minded people and choose not to be friends with me. im involved in a couple of societies but havent really found I've especially met good friends through. I've met people i can talk to but not friends.

    The problem isn't constant bullying as some people on here are suggesting. People have said horrible things to me or about me. but its more that i havent clicked with a single person. I'm the kind of person that if i had a couple of strong friendships i could take anything off people i couldnt stand.

    There doesnt seem a lot of difference in the two courses really. It just really is a shame to leave Oxford and its really a last resort as i had my heart set on it for so long. i really was expecting it to be the best three years of my life and a place where anyone can fit in. how wrong i was.
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    (Original post by JGR)
    As an undergraduate at Oriel College, I personally would advise staying at Oxford, but moving away from attempting to socialise purely within college.
    There are dozens of colleges and many more dozens of social, sport, interest, etc groups which you can join and participate in.
    I'm not sure if you've said which subject you're studying, but socialising along those lines may be another idea.

    I barely talk to anyone in my college these days, with the exception of a couple of the other engineers there, and when the annual college engineering socials come along. I'm involved in a number of sporting/interest groups, and used to involved in a lot more, TBH. Sports and the like help you to feel better too. (One I'd especially recommend is the beginner's alts ice hockey on Friday evenings. Great social atmosphere and very fun, just turn up and play a bit.)
    Not to mention activities that don't involve the university/Oxford.

    You've still not mentioned which college you're at, unless I've missed it. However some of the smallest colleges can be a bit claustrophobic, from what I gather.

    Either way I suggest you discuss with your tutors, and the college welfare team(s) before coming to *any* kind of decision.
    In my eyes, you would be well advised to not make such a significant life choice without proper thought and consideration.
    Noo I havent said what college. I'd rather not in case there's someone on here that sees it. Smaller colleges can get very claustrophobic. Especially when very few people in your college mix outside of college... most at mine see the size of it fine for socialising. but a pool of say 50 people that you actually see in your year isn't that big.

    I'm an arts student. so very few compulsory lectures. Its three or four tutorials a fortnight and the rest is independent reading. all in college. I've been in tutorials with the same two people for both terms.
 
 
 
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