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    (Original post by Ayshizzle)
    I really hope I never come across you. I may have to punch you in the face.
    No worries, as a Dentist i think i could quite easily know what to do with the damage (if any) from someones ***** fit
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    I call mine Kevin
    No joke
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    I don't call them anything seeing as i'm in and out within about twenty seconds
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    I don't call my dentist anything. Largely because they're poking around in my mouth with a piece of metal.
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    (Original post by electricjon)
    I won't deny I have pride in being a doctor. If you have an objection to that then I won't lose any sleep over it. I will however complain if people try to muscle in on the title purely because they're greedy, corrupt and want more people to buy their dental services.

    Okay okay I'm not saying that all dentists are like that (I imagine I'll still get negatively repped though for it), but my point still stands.

    And no, I don't really care about money. Though, since you point it out, I am going to be MaxFax surgeon, so forgive me if I don't rise to any jibes that dentists make more money than doctors. Tell it to my butler.
    HAHA ... I admire you honesty ... Although I highly think you should come back with your responses after completing a dental degree .. And likewise id be in a better position to let you know where u stand after a medic degree ..... It is about money for you also and you cannot lie about that .. If medicine paid doctors 13-15 k ... Would u hell be studying medicine!
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    (Original post by Insomnia)
    HAHA ... I admire you honesty ... Although I highly think you should come back with your responses after completing a dental degree .. And likewise id be in a better position to let you know where u stand after a medic degree ..... It is about money for you also and you cannot lie about that .. If medicine paid doctors 13-15 k ... Would u hell be studying medicine!
    Agreed. Touche. I'll accept your challenge.
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    (Original post by electricjon)
    Agreed. Touche. I'll accept your challenge.
    Lol ....
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    (Original post by Insomnia)
    No worries, as a Dentist i think i could quite easily know what to do with the damage (if any) from someones ***** fit
    Lol... ***** fit?
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    Watch White Chicks!!
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    (Original post by Ayshizzle)
    Lol... ***** fit?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGacI00Ofmg
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    I don't. In fact, I don't think I've ever called them anything. I just go there, do what is needed to done, have a chat with them...and that's it.
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    (Original post by electricjon)
    Please quote me correctly. I am not disputing that you know basic life support. Of course you do. However, basic life support is simply giving 30 compressions to 2 breaths, not exactly rocket science and certainly no reason to call someone a doctor.

    As for defibrillators. Yes, I know that dental students, just like medical students, are taught how to combine BLS along with using an AED. An AED being an AUTOMATED External Defibrillator - i.e. you stick two pads on to their chest, turn it on, and then it does everything for you. Again, not THAT difficult and again, no reason to call someone a doctor - these things have clear instructions on the front to allow them to be used by any lay person. Nurses and paramedics are also trained to use them. No-one's calling them doctors either.

    What I am talking about is ADVANCED life support. Medical and dental students DO NOT study this at university, it being a 2 day internationally recognized course that anyone can do, you have to get renewed every 4 years, and teaches you how to do manual defibrillation, recognise and treat life threatening arrhythmias, post resuscitation care, as well as a range of common emergencies such as pregnancy, anaphylaxis, sticking needles in chests etc...and loads more - essentially all the important things that members of the general public might expect a "doctor" to be able to do in the is-there-a-doctor-on-board situation. That doesn't mean that "doctors" fresh out of medical school are automatically able to handle these things. Far from it, and part of their continuing postgraduate training involves attending such courses in order to develop. Without ALS, a junior doctor in the UK is very unlikely to get a competitive job or progress up their chosen career ladder, whatever their specialty, and as such represents one of the first of many hurdles that a newly qualified doctor must overcome. It's just that they're already called "doctor" by then so status doesn't really come into it.

    Dentists can progress in their career however, without having to possess ALS, and yet they would still be allowed to call themselves "doctor" straight after finishing dental school. I have an objection to that (in case you hadn't gathered by now!) MOST dentists, just like ALL newly qualified medics, would probably be hopeless in any serious emergency that required anything more than chest compressions, sticking on defibrillator pads and flicking a switch. To any dentists out there, would YOU know what to do if the defibrillator show torsades de pointes, irregular tachycardia with a broad QRS or pulseless electrical activity? Shock them? That would be a very bad idea. I suppose then you know what dose of adrenaline to give? Amiodarone? Magnesium? And over how long? Oh, you don't. Don't call yourself a doctor then. The public will be misled into thinking you can help in these emergency situations, which is what most people would expect.

    Bare daaaambbb?! wtf? Please. Just get it right before you lay into me.
    Our role is NOT to be a doctor and perform ALS. That is not in our job role and we should not be criticised for not knowing. We know how to manage a range of medical conditions that could conceivably happen in the surgery. We know when they need medical help, and we know how to keep them alive till we get them to A&E. Simples.

    So the title doctor should be based exclusively on how advanced your life support is? I think somehow the meaning has been distorted. Do you also believe phd students are not deserving?

    And with regards to pay, when a dentist graduates they are solely responsible for their patients and treatment and have the full range of skills any other GDP has. When a med student graduates they do not, and rely very heavily on seniors. I don't even think they have full GMC registration? I think that's the reason for the difference in pay, personally.

    As for an associate dentist, it's actually pretty difficult to make money unless you work very hard. Considering up here the pt charge for a one surface filling on the NHS is £6.75, 50% would be given to your boss for renumeration...? Some treatments are barely worth your while (molar endo etc) as it's very difficult to make any money doing them as a self employed contractor.

    I just think it would be nice if healthcare professionals could respect each others skillsets rather than bickering about it. It does not really live up to the word 'professional'...
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    (Original post by Magnanimity)
    Our role is NOT to be a doctor and perform ALS. That is not in our job role and we should not be criticised for not knowing. We know how to manage a range of medical conditions that could conceivably happen in the surgery. We know when they need medical help, and we know how to keep them alive till we get them to A&E. Simples.

    So the title doctor should be based exclusively on how advanced your life support is? I think somehow the meaning has been distorted. Do you also believe phd students are not deserving?
    Surely then you agree that dentists should not be called doctors. Otherwise, what is in your job role that qualifies the use of the term? And is that meaning consistent with what the general public sees? Lay people can also spot when someone needs medical help, and most would have a crack at keeping them alive until A&E. It doesn't take a dental degree, or a medical degree. Nor does having a degree add that much either.

    The advanceness of life support criteria is an arbitrary one that I have decided to use. I, by no means, claim for it to be the viewpoint held by the general public or other healthcare professionals, but from my own experience that is the argument I feel most strongly about. I think the meaning was distorted long before my argument came along. And as for the last question: Yes and No. They are deserving, by the historical association with doctorate PhDs, and its Latin origins meaning teacher, but not for the modern day and commonly accepted definition. As the GMC recommends, the use of doctor in this context should be accompanied by a statement explaining the subject of the qualification.

    (Original post by Magnanimity)
    I just think it would be nice if healthcare professionals could respect each others skillsets rather than bickering about it. It does not really live up to the word 'professional'...
    Hear hear. I DO respect dentists and medics in equal measure. They both have unique and crucial roles in society. I'm just choosing to fuel the debate. Wouldn't be fun otherwise...
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    (Original post by electricjon)
    Surely then you agree that dentists should not be called doctors. Otherwise, what is in your job role that qualifies the use of the term? And is that meaning consistent with what the general public sees? Lay people can also spot when someone needs medical help, and most would have a crack at keeping them alive until A&E. It doesn't take a dental degree, or a medical degree. Nor does having a degree add that much either.

    Hear hear. I DO respect dentists and medics in equal measure. They both have unique and crucial roles in society. I'm just choosing to fuel the debate. Wouldn't be fun otherwise...
    You are absolutely mixing up being a medical doctor and receiving the TITLE doctor. I completely agree that in current society, if you say doctor, the first thing that springs to mind is a medically qualified individual (forgetting all this business of how much life support skills you have).

    In my eyes, and in the eyes of the system in many parts of the world, including the UK...the TITLE doctor suggests a high level of learning (phd's definitely fall under this)...medics, dentists and vets receive the TITLE doctor as an honour to the teaching that was involved in their undergraduate degrees.

    The title 'doctor' is not gained because of medical competencies alone and most definitely not from life saving competencies alone, that is not the definition nor the meaning of the TITLE doctor...

    I personally think everything would make more sense if we said 'physicians' instead of '(medically qualified) doctors' , but maintained the TITLE of doctor for physicians, dentists, vets and phd holders.

    As a final note, I truly believe it's a pity if people cannot appreciate dentists deserve the TITLE Dr. for the training that they have to go through.
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    (Original post by electricjon)
    Surely then you agree that dentists should not be called doctors. Otherwise, what is in your job role that qualifies the use of the term? And is that meaning consistent with what the general public sees? Lay people can also spot when someone needs medical help, and most would have a crack at keeping them alive until A&E. It doesn't take a dental degree, or a medical degree. Nor does having a degree add that much either.

    The advanceness of life support criteria is an arbitrary one that I have decided to use. I, by no means, claim for it to be the viewpoint held by the general public or other healthcare professionals, but from my own experience that is the argument I feel most strongly about. I think the meaning was distorted long before my argument came along. And as for the last question: Yes and No. They are deserving, by the historical association with doctorate PhDs, and its Latin origins meaning teacher, but not for the modern day and commonly accepted definition. As the GMC recommends, the use of doctor in this context should be accompanied by a statement explaining the subject of the qualification.



    Hear hear. I DO respect dentists and medics in equal measure. They both have unique and crucial roles in society. I'm just choosing to fuel the debate. Wouldn't be fun otherwise...
    You're mixing up being medically qualified and highly educated, really.

    And you're also taking away the responsibility of the individual to recognise their limitations. Generally highly educated people will know when it's appropriate to respond to an emergency and that includes realising and practising within their limitations - an essential part of being a medical professional.

    Are you saying a lay person would know how and when to give IM adrenaline, midazolam, glucagon etc? It might not be as fancy pants as ALS but it's sure as hell not BLS. Again that is not our job role and we should not be criticised for not knowing something that is not our job. Do you even know what's in a dental practices emergency drug box?

    And actually my degree has added a lot to knowing what to do in a medical emergency situation. I'd be pretty damn worried if it hadn't.
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    (Original post by munn)
    I'm British so I don't even know what a dentist is.




    Americans actually believe this.


    i don't understand you; neither sentence; not one bit.
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    My Dentist is she. And I usually have a raging boner so resolve not to say anything lest it comes out wrong.
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    (Original post by splitstriker)
    In my eyes, and in the eyes of the system in many parts of the world, including the UK...the TITLE doctor suggests a high level of learning (phd's definitely fall under this)...medics, dentists and vets receive the TITLE doctor as an honour to the teaching that was involved in their undergraduate degrees.

    The title 'doctor' is not gained because of medical competencies alone and most definitely not from life saving competencies alone, that is not the definition nor the meaning of the TITLE doctor...

    As a final note, I truly believe it's a pity if people cannot appreciate dentists deserve the TITLE Dr. for the training that they have to go through.
    The title doctor in that sense implies a doctorate degree, which qualifies the holder to teach in their specific field. As we've established though, undergraduate medical and dental degrees only give you bachelors degrees, sometimes masters, but not doctorate level, regardless of the length of training. Architects study for 7 years to get a BA - by that argument they have just as much right to the title. It's still misleading though. It's less misleading for a dentist or vet to use the term admittedly, given their basis in healthcare, but still misleading to the general public's perception of the title doctor. Even regarding it as a doctorate (which it isn't) - do all dentists hold academic teaching roles at universities? No.

    (Original post by Magnanimity)
    Generally highly educated people will know when it's appropriate to respond to an emergency and that includes realising and practising within their limitations - an essential part of being a medical professional.

    Do you even know what's in a dental practices emergency drug box?
    All healthcare professions practise within their limitations: nurses, paramedics, therapists etc. Is it appropriate for a dentist to respond to an emergency? Well that depends on their individual abilities as well as the nature of the emergency, but is your range of competencies enough to qualify the title doctor?

    No I don't know what's in a dental emergency drug box. It's not in my job role, nor am I claiming to be a dentist (yet). I'm sure I could reasonably guess what would be in one though. Besides, I'm not saying you don't have a unique role and specialist knowledge far and beyond what I know. Are there specific emergencies than only a dentist can handle, which a medically trained doctor could not? And if so, does your unique ability to help in those situations qualify you to the title doctor?

    Either way you look at it (medically or academically), there personally just isn't enough evidence to support the title. I can thoroughly appreciate where you're coming from. But that isn't enough for me.
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    (Original post by electricjon)
    The title doctor in that sense implies a doctorate degree, which qualifies the holder to teach in their specific field. As we've established though, undergraduate medical and dental degrees only give you bachelors degrees, sometimes masters, but not doctorate level, regardless of the length of training. Architects study for 7 years to get a BA - by that argument they have just as much right to the title. It's still misleading though. Less misleading for dentist or vet to use the term admittedly, given their basis in healthcare, but still misleading to the general public's perception of the title doctor.



    All healthcare professions practise within their limitations: nurses, paramedics, therapists etc. Is it appropriate for a dentist to respond to an emergency? Well that depends on their individual abilities as well as the nature of the emergency, but is your range of competencies enough to qualify the title doctor?

    No I don't know what's in a dental emergency drug box. It's not in my job role, nor am I claiming to be a dentist (yet). I'm sure I could reasonably guess what would be in one though. Besides, I'm not saying you don't have a unique role and specialist knowledge far and beyond what I know. Are there specific emergencies than only a dentist can handle, which a medically trained doctor could not? And if so, does your unique ability to help in those situations qualify you to the title doctor?

    Either way you look at it (medically or academically), there personally just isn't enough evidence to support the title.
    The only reason medics get the title doctor is because of their academic training...not because of their medical emergency training.
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    (Original post by splitstriker)

    As a final note, I truly believe it's a pity if people cannot appreciate dentists deserve the TITLE Dr. for the training that they have to go through
    .
    But other professions have to undergo a lot of learning and training, such as Lawyers and Engineers, and they don't get called "Doctor".

    So I'm not sure the title "doctor" is just about a high level of learning. Obviously the PhD Doctor was for that, but I don't think "medical doctor referred to as Dr because he's a medic" is due to a high level of learning.
 
 
 
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