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Netherlands set to ban halal/kosher slaughter without stunning watch

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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Ever seen a goat tied up then having its throat cut? Never heard an animal make such cries.
    I have been to a halal slaughter house and watched goats having their throats slit. There was no noise and they stopped shaking after around 5 seconds.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Ever seen a goat tied up then having its throat cut? Never heard an animal make such cries.
    So the level of sound is related to the level of pain?
    I don't think so. The moment an animal has an electric bolt shock to the head, must be very painful. Just because the animal doesn't scream, doesn't mean it's not in pain.

    I've not seen it the way you describe anyway. That's not how it normally happens.
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    (Original post by silent ninja)
    So the level of sound is related to the level of pain?
    I don't think so. The moment an animal has an electric bolt shock to the head, must be very painful. Just because the animal doesn't scream, doesn't mean it's not in pain.

    I've not seen it the way you describe anyway. That's not how it normally happens.
    Just going by my experience. This was in Egypt.
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    As someone has said, I hope the people campaigning for this are all vegetarians, rather then meat eaters aiming to feel better about themselves as they chomp into a little lamb's leg that was most likely having a whale of a time in the fields before being slaughtered so it could end up on their plates.

    Regardless of whether you stun them, or slit their throats, at the end of the day you're killing the animals and I imagine causing them some degree of pain. Unless studies can conclusively show that the kosher way of killing is far more painful for the animals, this is a loads of codswallop.

    On the plus side, Jews and Muslims agreeing. Could be the start of something beautiful :P
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    (Original post by silent ninja)
    So the level of sound is related to the level of pain?
    I don't think so. The moment an animal has an electric bolt shock to the head, must be very painful. Just because the animal doesn't scream, doesn't mean it's not in pain.

    I've not seen it the way you describe anyway. That's not how it normally happens.
    The electric shock renders it instantly brain-dead. There's no brain activity, so no pain, no idea what's going on. It's in the best interest of the animal to do this.
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    (Original post by *Dustinthewind*)
    As someone has said, I hope the people campaigning for this are all vegetarians, rather then meat eaters aiming to feel better about themselves as they chomp into a little lamb's leg that was most likely having a whale of a time in the fields before being slaughtered so it could end up on their plates.

    Regardless of whether you stun them, or slit their throats, at the end of the day you're killing the animals and I imagine causing them some degree of pain. Unless studies can conclusively show that the kosher way of killing is far more painful for the animals, this is a loads of codswallop.

    On the plus side, Jews and Muslims agreeing. Could be the start of something beautiful :P
    Actually, many studies have been done on this, and that's what most of them conclude.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Just going by my experience. This was in Egypt.
    Many Egyptian butchers do not follow Islamic code of conduct when it comes to ritual slaughter. Read this article of an activist who Relies on Islam to Fight for Animal Rights.
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    This is *******s anti-religion sentiment dressed up as somehow caring for animals. If you care stop eating them.
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    (Original post by *Dustinthewind*)
    As someone has said, I hope the people campaigning for this are all vegetarians, rather then meat eaters aiming to feel better about themselves as they chomp into a little lamb's leg that was most likely having a whale of a time in the fields before being slaughtered so it could end up on their plates.

    Regardless of whether you stun them, or slit their throats, at the end of the day you're killing the animals and I imagine causing them some degree of pain. Unless studies can conclusively show that the kosher way of killing is far more painful for the animals, this is a loads of codswallop.

    On the plus side, Jews and Muslims agreeing. Could be the start of something beautiful :P
    I have yet to see evidence that stunning is far more human than the Kosher or Halal way. Is it the case of "Muslim" in the title, so anything against them must be a good thing? sound like wee bit of racism to me.

    hmmm. Perhaps for the first time, the Netherlands have managed to unite Muslims and Jews together. Something which the UN has failed to do for decades.

    Not surprised thousands of Muslims and Jews have had to flee from the Netherlands in recent times. Perhaps the Netherlands, have provided an opportunity of a beautiful relationship?
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    (Original post by Cybele)
    Actually, many studies have been done on this, and that's what most of them conclude.
    Could you link me to some please?
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    (Original post by CombineHarvester)
    This law is already in place in the UK. There is only a exception made for meat which is sold to only the Muslim/Jewish communities and not the wider population, i.e. in independent butchers.
    You can buy meat marked Halal in my local Tesco in London. So either Tesco are incorrectly marking it Halal, or you are mistaken.

    Either way, I don't see why we should have one law for religious communities and another law for everyone else. Good on the Dutch.
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    You can buy meat marked Halal in my local Tesco in London. So either Tesco are incorrectly marking it Halal, or you are mistaken.
    You get Halal meat that has been stunned also and all supermarkets must use meat which has been stunned first, including Tesco.
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    (Original post by B-Man.)
    You get Halal meat that has been stunned also and all supermarkets must use meat which has been stunned first, including Tesco.
    If you define Halal as "meat from animals that have been slaughtered in the prescribed way according to the shariah" than surely stunning the animal automatically means the meat is not strictly Halal?
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    (Original post by Cybele)
    Actually, many studies have been done on this, and that's what most of them conclude.
    I have not actually seen any of these studies. Could you provide sources please?

    Also I said 'conclusively' in order to put across the point that small studies are not conclusive. They allow speculation, yes, but not a firm basis to validate people's claims.
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    (Original post by Cybele)
    Proof?
    Philip Lymbery, Chief Executive for Compassion in World Farming, said: “We completely respect every individual’s religious choice. However, it is illegal for slaughterhouses to slaughter animals without first stunning them unless they are satisfied that the meat is intended solely for the Muslim or Jewish communities. It is also against the law for a company to sell or serve meat from unstunned animals to the wider general public.”

    http://www.ciwf.org.uk/news/compassi...sher_meat.aspx

    (Original post by Cybele)
    The electric shock renders it instantly brain-dead. There's no brain activity, so no pain, no idea what's going on. It's in the best interest of the animal to do this.
    Actually this system often fails (particularly with overweight animals) and the animal needs to be shocked again for it to lose consciousness.


    (Original post by aeonflux)
    You can buy meat marked Halal in my local Tesco in London. So either Tesco are incorrectly marking it Halal, or you are mistaken.

    Either way, I don't see why we should have one law for religious communities and another law for everyone else. Good on the Dutch.
    No, the meat is pre-stunned just like the rest of them.
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    (Original post by The_Male_Melons)
    I have yet to see evidence that stunning is far more human than the Kosher or Halal way. Is it the case of "Muslim" in the title, so anything against them must be a good thing? sound like wee bit of racism to me.

    hmmm. Perhaps for the first time, the Netherlands have managed to unite Muslims and Jews together. Something which the UN has failed to do for decades.

    Not surprised thousands of Muslims and Jews have had to flee from the Netherlands in recent times. Perhaps the Netherlands, have provided an opportunity of a beautiful relationship?
    Apart from your point about racism, as Muslims are not a race, I agree with your point.
    Finally something the Muslims and Jews can conclusively agree on, can only lead to good things
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    If you want to cause less suffering to animals - don't eat meat. Arguments over whether it's less painful to put a bolt through the brain or to slit their throats are, frankly, absurd, grotesque and meaningless.

    But nonetheless kudos to The Netherlands.
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    If you define Halal as "meat from animals that have been slaughtered in the prescribed way according to the shariah" than surely stunning the animal automatically means the meat is not strictly Halal?
    You realise that there are issues in Islam and in fact all religions where there is not complete consensus on issues right? Well this is one of those cases. In the UK over 90% of all Halal meat has been stunned before slaughter. Source
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Ever seen a goat tied up then having its throat cut? Never heard an animal make such cries.
    A chicken runs around for ~30secs after it has been decapitated. I've seen live slaughter as well countless times and some animals move about and make noise a lot, others don't react at all. In any case, most of this noise/movement occurs after the animal is already brain-dead, they're reflexes caused by blood (and oxygen) escaping out of the various parts of the body. It happens in humans as well, the lazarus reflex in particular can be quite scary for pathologists.
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    (Original post by silent ninja)
    I'm against this.

    So the actual stun bolt to the head is harmless? What a load of nonsense. "No but it's less painful than the throat being cut." Evidence please?
    lol exactly. The idea of being electrocuted FIRST and then getting your throat cut sounds so much better.

    For some reason it reminds me of this
 
 
 
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