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when will socialists apologise for the 150 million dead in their name? watch

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    (Original post by adam_zed)
    Not really. Fascism is an example of syncretic politics, made up of a rag bag and sometimes conflicting mix of political ideologies from all over the political spectrum. A more accurate statement regarding the left/right scale would be that nationalism in its purest form is the polar opposite to socialism. Fascism is falsely seen as a far-right ideology because of the widespread knowledge of its crimes committed on a basis of its nationalist goals.

    Edit: Care to explain the neg?
    The people negging don't know what they're on about, you're spot on.

    Communist dictatorships and European Fascists were both on the left, but that doesn't automatically tar all socialists with the brush of authoritarianism.

    Hitler's economic policy was effectively Keynesian, thus placing him firmly on the left. "Right wing", although it has become a synonym for authoritarianism, just means free market economics, basically.
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    You've got your ideologies mixed up there, brah.
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    omg socialism is like totally retarded, like literally
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    (Original post by Straight up G)
    Irrelevant you moron, just because it says National Socialists doesn't mean they were socialist. Their social, foreign and political policies were obviously very right wing, only their economic policies could even be placed near the tag 'socialist'. You're stupid
    Interestingly the Nazi's were required to solicit donations from businesses in order to finance their March '33 election campaign. It would be interesting to see why, if the Nazi's were indeed socialist as some claim, they gave them any money - especially since the KPD and (AFAIK) the SPD never received substantial donation from business (for obvious reasons).

    Not really a criticism directed at you but it is worth pointing out that Krupp, Thyssen, IG Farben and others did not consider the Nazis economics to be too socialist.
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    The Nazis were not goddamn socialists, they **** all over the working classes and the proletariat :facepalm:
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    The Nazis were not goddamn socialists, they **** all over the working classes and the proletariat :facepalm:
    Hitler's party was entitled The National Socialist Party, Nazis call themselves National Socialists. They may not be the socialists we know nowadays, but they come close!
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    (Original post by Jimmy_AL)
    Hitler's party was entitled The National Socialist Party, Nazis call themselves National Socialists. They may not be the socialists we know nowadays, but they come close!
    No they don't, have you read any Marx whatsoever? More to the point do you know just how many thousands of communists, socialists and trade unionists were killed by the Nazi regime? FFS Hitler helped the Spanish fascists destroy the socialist/anarchist International Brigades in the Spanish Civil War.
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    ok i'm sorry!
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    No they don't, have you read any Marx whatsoever? More to the point do you know just how many thousands of communists, socialists and trade unionists were killed by the Nazi regime? FFS Hitler helped the Spanish fascists destroy the socialist/anarchist International Brigades in the Spanish Civil War.
    Yes, I've read. What I was trying to point out is that they were both the same. The Nazi had Mein Kapf and some ideas from H. Friedrich which were like a replacement for the insane ideas of the communists. I really don't know why ppl. have such a repugnance towards Nazis as long as they didn't got the opportunity to kill as much as the socialists! Probably the propaganda because in some shows (let's take Family Guy for instance) there are a lot of references to Nazi Germany or Hitler but not a trace of criticism for the left-wing!
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    People who think that the Nazis were socialists should consider several points:

    1. If it is a revelation to you that Nazi is 'short' for National Socialist you probably don't know enough about the subject to comment.
    2. The fact that the Nazis called themselves National Socialists proves nothing. As was pointed out earlier many states call themselves democratic - in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.
    3. Being able to produce quotes that 'show' the Nazis were socialists does not mean that they were socialists. (in fact, I could produce a quote from a leading Nazi which suggests that the Nazis were biologists - and with a little effort probably any number of other things). It might have escaped your notice that what people say is not necessarily what they do
    4. Historians of fascism who place Nazism on the right (where it belongs) are probably well aware of the quotes you produce, of the actually name of the party, of the 25 point program and of all the other evidence you're likely to produce.

    You might also like to ask yourself whether or not your explanation for why historians place fascism on the right is dangerously close to a conspiracy theory...
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    As an anti-socialist I have to say that people like you make me sick.
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    (Original post by B_C_89)
    People who think that the Nazis were socialists should consider several points:

    1. If it is a revelation to you that Nazi is 'short' for National Socialist you probably don't know enough about the subject to comment.
    2. The fact that the Nazis called themselves National Socialists proves nothing. As was pointed out earlier many states call themselves democratic - in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.
    3. Being able to produce quotes that 'show' the Nazis were socialists does not mean that they were socialists. (in fact, I could produce a quote from a leading Nazi which suggests that the Nazis were biologists - and with a little effort probably any number of other things). It might have escaped your notice that what people say is not necessarily what they do
    4. Historians of fascism who place Nazism on the right (where it belongs) are probably well aware of the quotes you produce, of the actually name of the party, of the 25 point program and of all the other evidence you're likely to produce.

    You might also like to ask yourself whether or not your explanation for why historians place fascism on the right is dangerously close to a conspiracy theory...


    nazis were left wing extremists.

    all totalitarian regimes are far left. far left is total government, far right is no government.
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    nazis were left wing extremists.

    all totalitarian regimes are far left. far left is total government, far right is no government.
    Mussolini certainly wouldn't have agreed with that definition:
    Granted that the XIXth century was the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy, this does not mean that the XXth century must also be the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy. Political doctrines pass; nations remain. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the 'right', a Fascist century. If the 19th century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the 'collective' century, and therefore the century of the State.
    I don't know when it suddenly became fashionable (on the internet) to claim that "left" and "right" solely depends on the "size" of government (if this were the case then given that the 20th Century was characterised by ever "larger" states everyone would have had to be considered left wing) but it seems odd that historians and others have put fascism in the right when according to your definition it is on the left.

    Are they all unaware of your definition of "left" and "right" (in which case you have to wonder how legitimate it is)? If they are not unaware why do they consistently mislabel fascism/Nazism?
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    nazis were left wing extremists.

    all totalitarian regimes are far left. far left is total government, far right is no government.
    That's not what the Far Left and Far Right mean at all :holmes:
    Left and Right, from what I've read, revolves around the perspective on Social Equality rather than the size of the state.

    There are Anarcho-Communists and Anarcho-Capitalists, the size of the state is independent of the Left-Right spectrum. Of course the Left-Right Spectrum isn't that useful, really, since it attempts to explain the vast complexities of people's opinions on a simple binary scale.
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    (Original post by Fusilero)
    That's not what the Far Left and Far Right mean at all :holmes:
    Left and Right, from what I've read, revolves around the perspective on Social Equality rather than the size of the state.

    There are Anarcho-Communists and Anarcho-Capitalists, the size of the state is independent of the Left-Right spectrum. Of course the Left-Right Spectrum isn't that useful, really, since it attempts to explain the vast complexities of people's opinions on a simple binary scale.




    i've read loads of explanations as well. most don't make any sense to me. left and right must be defined by the size of the state otherwise the term becomes subjective. impossible to define.




    anarcho capitalists and anarcho communists are both extreme right wingers pretending to be otherwise.


    extreme right wing is theoretical. i don't think its ever existed in history. maybe it exists briefly after the collapse of states or empires. but barring that, human kind has always been in bondage to the state.
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    nazis were left wing extremists.

    all totalitarian regimes are far left. far left is total government, far right is no government.
    Use of terms like Far Right and Far left are fairly useless in a serious debate on political ideology
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    Your threads are getting stupider.
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    i've read loads of explanations as well. most don't make any sense to me. left and right must be defined by the size of the state otherwise the term becomes subjective. impossible to define.




    anarcho capitalists and anarcho communists are both extreme right wingers pretending to be otherwise.


    extreme right wing is theoretical. i don't think its ever existed in history. maybe it exists briefly after the collapse of states or empires. but barring that, human kind has always been in bondage to the state.
    Welcome to the cruelty of human existence where we get to view an objective universe through a subjective lens. Please remain calm and avoid existential crises. You'll be pleased to know it most likely permanently ends in sixty to seventy years time.

    But yes, Left-Right are rather difficult to define, that's the issue I raised. The Size of the State isn't what Left-Right is about it's what the Size of the State is about. I don't know why it must be impossible to define Left-Right if it's not about the size of the state as a subjective definition isn't a terrible thing, particularly when it comes to ideologies. The Left-Right Spectrum is something vastly more complex, subjective and unwieldy. If you want to discuss the size of the state, go ahead, but don't think it is the only thing that defines a political ideology. Best to expand on your ideas, discuss it in fine detail rather than try to reduce it to two simple directions as thought up by some Frenchmen in the early 19th Century. It helps to avoid the US vs THEM mentality and so facilitate a better debate in regards to political ideology.

    You'll also be pleased to hear that traditional Marxists do aim for abolition of the nation state, which according to your definition, seems to place them firmly on the right!
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    what aspect of any of the regimes you mention, titles aside, was socialist?
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    (Original post by karateworm)
    This guy is either an idiot, a troll, or both.

    Stop feeding him, I'd rather like him to piss off.
    We can only hope.
 
 
 
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