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when will socialists apologise for the 150 million dead in their name? watch

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    (Original post by Acerbic)
    what aspect of any of the regimes you mention, titles aside, was socialist?



    so they lied about being socialists? they were secret capitalists who pretended to be socialists so they could damage the reputation of socialism?
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    OP, what a ridiculous rhetorical question.

    So you're saying all Christians should apologize for the millions dead in their name during the crusades?
    Catholics for the millions dead in their name for the inquisition?
    White people for the millions enslaved and/or killed during the slave trade and the genocide of the Native Americans?

    I could go on. But seriously, where the hell do you think you're going with this argument?
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    nazis were left wing extremists.

    all totalitarian regimes are far left. far left is total government, far right is no government.
    HAH, and my buttocks play the banjo.
    Where are you getting these facts from, might I ask? I can tell you that
    1. The Nazis may have had the word "Socialist" in their party name, however this was a total oxymoron, and they were a right-wing extremist party whose main policy was anti-Semitism.
    2. TOTALITARIANISM means when a government controls every aspect of civil life, and this government can be left wing, right wing, chicken wing, broken wing, it really doesn't matter.
    3. TOTAL GOVERNMENT=see above
    4. NO GOVERNMENT=Anarchy



    NB. My buttocks don't play the banjo. That was a joke.... I made a joke.

    But imagine if it did........the endless commercial breaks I'd get....
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    (Original post by Marinated_in_Joy)
    OP, what a ridiculous rhetorical question.

    So you're saying all Christians should apologize for the millions dead in their name during the crusades?
    Catholics for the millions dead in their name for the inquisition?
    White people for the millions enslaved and/or killed during the slave trade and the genocide of the Native Americans?

    ask americans to apologise for the massacre of native americans. white people had nothing to do with it collectively.

    I could go on. But seriously, where the hell do you think you're going with this argument?



    no.



    the crusades were a natural reaction to islamic conquest of the (former) christian holy lands.


    thousands died in the inquisition. not millions. more have been killed in jihad in the past 10 years than the whole of the inquisition.


    white people were not collectively responsible for slavery. only a few nations were involved. but, it was only rich white traders who were involved and they purchased slaves from the african tribal leaders who sold their captives. so, blame africans. not whites.


    facts are socialism is an ideology that is a complete failure. it has the blood of 150 million on its hands.
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    they were national socialists. hitler hated capitalism.
    He also hated communism
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    (Original post by Marinated_in_Joy)
    OP, what a ridiculous rhetorical question.

    So you're saying all Christians should apologize for the millions dead in their name during the crusades?
    Catholics for the millions dead in their name for the inquisition?
    White people for the millions enslaved and/or killed during the slave trade and the genocide of the Native Americans?

    I could go on. But seriously, where the hell do you think you're going with this argument?



    no.



    the crusades were a natural reaction to islamic conquest of the (former) christian holy lands.


    thousands died in the inquisition. not millions. more have been killed in jihad in the past 10 years than the whole of the inquisition.


    white people were not collectively responsible for slavery. only a few nations were involved. but, it was only rich white traders who were involved and they purchased slaves from the african tribal leaders who sold their captives.


    blame the american government for the genocide of native americans. it had nothing to do with white people collectively.


    facts are socialism is an ideology that is a complete failure. it has the blood of 150 million on its hands. why do you support it?
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    no.



    the crusades were a natural reaction to islamic conquest of the christian holy lands.


    thousands died in the inquisition. not millions. more have been killed in jihad in the past 10 years than the whole of the inquisition.


    white people were not collectively responsible for slavery. only a few nations were involved. but, it was only rich white traders who were involved and they purchased slaves from the african tribal leaders who sold their captives.


    blame the american government for the genocide of native americans. it had nothing to do with white people collectively.


    facts are socialism is an ideology that is a complete failure. it has the blood of 150 million on its hands. why do you support it?
    Didn't say I support socialism. But my point was that you can't blame people who belong to a certain group (whether it be race, religion or ideology) for things committed by their predecessors. Why should they apologise for everything? It was a ridiculous thread start and you know it, so please just stop digging yourself into an even bigger hole.
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    (Original post by Marinated_in_Joy)
    HAH, and my buttocks play the banjo.
    Where are you getting these facts from, might I ask? I can tell you that
    1. The Nazis may have had the word "Socialist" in their party name, however this was a total oxymoron, and they were a right-wing extremist party whose main policy was anti-Semitism.
    2. TOTALITARIANISM means when a government controls every aspect of civil life, and this government can be left wing, right wing, chicken wing, broken wing, it really doesn't matter.
    3. TOTAL GOVERNMENT=see above
    4. NO GOVERNMENT=Anarchy



    NB. My buttocks don't play the banjo. That was a joke.... I made a joke.

    But imagine if it did........the endless commercial breaks I'd get....



    total government: extreme left wing.

    no government: extreme right wing
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    (Original post by Marinated_in_Joy)
    Didn't say I support socialism. But my point was that you can't blame people who belong to a certain group (whether it be race, religion or ideology) for things committed by their predecessors. Why should they apologise for everything? It was a ridiculous thread start and you know it, so please just stop digging yourself into an even bigger hole.




    so, can fascists distance themselves from the nazis?

    after all, fascism is a legitimate political ideology, why let a few million deaths discredit it.
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    they were national socialists. hitler hated capitalism.
    I corrected you on this recently.

    National Socialists believed in the glorification of the state. True socialists are of the belief and hope that the state will wither away.

    They are diametrically opposed.

    I don't suppose you will stand corrected though. Clearly facts and logic hold very little sway over your thoughts.
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    (Original post by Mr Disco)
    I corrected you on this recently.

    National Socialists believed in the glorification of the state. True socialists are of the belief and hope that the state will wither away.

    They are diametrically opposed.

    I don't suppose you will stand corrected though. Clearly facts and logic hold very little sway over your thoughts.


    you mean, marx theorised that the state would fade away after the state established a socialist utopia.



    no wonder the average socialist is no different from the average religious fanatic.



    marxism is the most failed thought process in history. 150 million are dead. denounce the ideology and move on. it does not work.


    there is no marxism light.
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    so, can fascists distance themselves from the nazis?

    after all, fascism is a legitimate political ideology, why let a few million deaths discredit it.
    Well I'd say for one, Nazism is technically not Fascism, it's Nazism, although the two are similar, be careful how you throw that term around.

    Fascism and Nazism are both legitimate political ideologies in terms of government because they have both actually been used in the past and you can define them and how they are put into practice, however this doesn't make them morally viable or acceptable, so again, be careful how you use the term "legitimate".

    I'd say to your last piece of sarcasm that any fool who thought Fascism was ok BEFORE there were "millions of deaths" shouldn't be allowed to discredit anything at all.
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    Nyah, right after capitalists have finished apoligising for the ones dead in their name.



    (Original post by humanrights)
    you mean, marx theorised that the state would fade away after the state established a socialist utopia.

    no wonder the average socialist is no different from the average religious fanatic.

    marxism is the most failed thought process in history. 150 million are dead. denounce the ideology and move on. it does not work.

    there is no marxism light.
    There is not a single country in the modern world which has been truly Marxist. Just because the USSR called itself Communist doesn't mean it was.
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    (Original post by Marinated_in_Joy)
    Well I'd say for one, Nazism is technically not Fascism, it's Nazism, although the two are similar, be careful how you throw that term around.

    Fascism and Nazism are both legitimate political ideologies in terms of government because they have both actually been used in the past and you can define them and how they are put into practice, however this doesn't make them morally viable or acceptable, so again, be careful how you use the term "legitimate".

    I'd say to your last piece of sarcasm that any fool who thought Fascism was ok BEFORE there were "millions of deaths" shouldn't be allowed to discredit anything at all.


    thats my point. why should so called socialists get to weasel out of the crimes of their ideology and not 'fascists'?


    socialists always make the excuse that socialist genocidal regimes were not in fact real socialists, but a perversion............apparently , its always a perversion, despite the inevitable body count.

    it always comes down to pedantic wordplay on what socialism actually is but the truth is in the 150 million dead.
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    Nyah, right after capitalists have finished apoligising for the ones dead in their name.





    There is not a single country in the modern world which has been truly Marxist. Just because the USSR called itself Communist doesn't mean it was.


    so, what was communist russia then?


    i suppose you could say there has never been a single christian country either because no country has ever followed the christian doctrine to the letter -- which sounds silly, but thats what you are arguing in essence.



    ........the more i debate marxists the more i get the impression that marx is revered like a secular version of mohammad..........
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    you mean, marx theorised that the state would fade away after the state established a socialist utopia.



    no wonder the average socialist is no different from the average religious fanatic.



    marxism is the most failed thought process in history. 150 million are dead. denounce the ideology and move on. it does not work.


    there is no marxism light.
    A collection of sentences with a shared broad theme, but otherwise unconnected to each other.

    To return to the issue, will you apologise for your failure to distinguish between National Socialism and Marxism, when I have demonstrated them to be diametrically opposed?

    If not, at least offer a counter argument.
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    it always comes down to pedantic wordplay on what socialism actually is but the truth is in the 150 million dead.
    Erm, what?

    You're the one claiming socialism is at fault for all these deaths, so yes it does come down to what socialism actually is! As you have offered no proof for it actually being socialism that caused these deaths, what are you expecting from this?

    Oh yeh, an apology. I apologise for the sick leaders who committed these atrocities. I don't apologise for being a socialist, or socialism. Sorry.
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    so they lied about being socialists? they were secret capitalists who pretended to be socialists so they could damage the reputation of socialism?
    In practice none of them were socialist. It's not some conspiracy to damage the 'reputation of socialism', but you should understand that socialism bears no relation to maoist dictatorship, for example.
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    so, what was communist russia then?

    i suppose you could say there has never been a single christian country either because no country has ever followed the christian doctrine to the letter -- which sounds silly, but thats what you are arguing in essence.

    ........the more i debate marxists the more i get the impression that marx is revered like a secular version of mohammad..........
    It was Stalinist, which shares some features with Marxism, but goes against a lot of its ideologies. For example, it was pretty damn obvious that people were not equal in the USSR. Seriously, if I call a gun a spade, does that mean you'll think it's a spade?
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    Aside from the fact Hitler and Stalin weren't socialist, aside from the proud history of the anti-Stalinist socialist groups, aside from socialists who volunteered to lay down their lives in defiance of fascism (ever heard of the international Brigade? worth a Google mate) aside from the denunciations of Hitler and Stalin made by Trotsky, infinitely superior and indeed previous to Churchhill's, aside from the fact modern socialists weren't alive at the time these things happened, you actually have to examine what motivated these murders.

    If I put on a hat and kill you, is the hat responsible? Did Hitler kill Jews because he was a socialist (which he wasn't anyway) or because he was an anti-Semite? Did he start a war because he was a socialist (which he wasn't anyway) or because he was a violently nationalistic expansionary?

    OP needs to grow a brain, and then learn to think with it. Once he as done this he may return to me and then we shall have a discussion about the worrying "faith" element of Marxist thought, upon which I may actually agree with him. But until that time....

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