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unlikely to be CAUGHT cheating at a prestigeous uni Watch

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    Further to the thread a few weeks back where it was suggested that post 92 students were less ethical than those at more established unis on the basis of the raw numbers of cheating incidents detected...

    possible evidence that the dons are beginning to recognise they've been a bit too complacent about safeguarding their institutions reputation.

    Two dons said the small number of plagiarism cases referred to them represented just “the tip of the iceberg”.
    Nick Bamforth and Colin Thompson, the university’s proctors, who both sit on Oxford’s governing council, said that in some cases students’ work had shown “only the barest grasp of good practice” while others had lifted entire passages from the internet and fellow students’ work and pasted them straight into their theses.
    Prof Thompson, who is tasked with policing students, also criticised the university for being “supine” in the face of government cuts.
    Speaking to Congregation, Oxford’s “parliament of dons”, earlier this month he said: “We are worried that the number of plagiarism cases referred to us may only be the tip of the iceberg, because it is essential that the reputation of the degrees this university confers be jealously guarded.”
    The concerns – in the academics’ retirement oration – come just weeks after it emerged that universities across the country recorded more than 17,000 incidents of cheating last year – a 50 per cent rise in four years.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...niversity.html


    The worst offenders? (or just the worst at avoiding detection)

    Most of the cases of cheating at Oxford came from international students taking master’s courses at the university’s business school, Prof Thompson said.

    I'd recommend reading the comments too - where commenters claiming to be lecturers (at non-oxbridge institutions) say wealthy Asian internationals don't understand the western academic culture wrt plagiarism and the unis are too dependent on the international fees to risk upsetting the golden goose.
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    People plagiarise, sound the alarm, light the signal fires, write to the daily mail.

    Who cares?

    EDIT: Oh no neg rep! Just pointing out that I'm not saying plagiarism is good or should be tolerated, but come on - we all know it happens, and that people daft enough to consciously do it are generally caught out. All the poster does is go 'IT HAPPENS IN OXFORD TOO, AND ITS THEM ETHNICS WHAT ELSE'. Why wouldn't it happen in Oxford, and why wouldn't any race of person be just as susceptible to it? And its not like the attempts at covering up don't come back and bite them in the ass - look at the recent middle-eastern guy who's PhD thesis from the LSE got exposed.

    So, I repeat - who cares?
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    It is hardly surprising that Chinese students are caught cheating when Chinese academics are caught plagiarising their (former) colleagues work too; this issue was covered on Times Higher Education recently. There is clearly a cultural issue here where they do not seem to understand the importance of plagiarism.
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    Do they ever use turnitin at oxbridge - or is that just for the rest of us chavscum grovelling in our lowly unis?

    anyway i said internationals not 'ethnics'. fwiw at my lowly institution I get to meet BRITISH people of different ethnic origins (+EU students) it's much more diverse than oxbridge and they're all great afict, not the wealthy foreign Rolex rattlers trying to pay their way through oxbridge and LSE on their daddies corrupt money.

    Really just wondering if the cosy assumptions of the past at places that formerly acted as finishing schools for the nobility need to be kicked into the 21st century if they want to keep their reputations intact?
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    Also don't forget that 10% of students at Oxbridge take drugs to boost their concentration (there was a survey some time ago in Varsity). This is not considered cheating, but I find it questionable...

    (No doubt this happens at other universities too; just saying..)

    Edit: link
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    There are so many things one could reply to a certain reply in this post with, however one shall refrain.
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    (Original post by Joinedup)
    Do they ever use turnitin at oxbridge - or is that just for the rest of us chavscum grovelling in our lowly unis?

    anyway i said internationals not 'ethnics'. fwiw at my lowly institution I get to meet BRITISH people of different ethnic origins (+EU students) it's much more diverse than oxbridge and they're all great afict, not the wealthy foreign Rolex rattlers trying to pay their way through oxbridge and LSE on their daddies corrupt money.

    Really just wondering if the cosy assumptions of the past at places that formerly acted as finishing schools for the nobility need to be kicked into the 21st century if they want to keep their reputations intact?
    Really, the way your post was written, it just came off as a rant against 'internationals' (although my 'ethnics' remark, aside from being a blatant parody and exaggeration, carried the same implicit meaning, but if you want to split hairs that's fine).

    Fwiw as well, I'd posit that actually, on balance, there really aren't that many of those 'Rolex rattlers' at the top unis. Sure they might be rich, but I'd suggest to you that being rich and also being honest and hard working are not mutually exclusive character traits. As I've already said (and as 4 people seem to take affront to without saying why) there are, of course, people who will cheat their way through university (usually getting caught at some point). But to suggest that the uni is basically handing out firsts and 2:i's by blatant cheating is utterly absurd and is really insulting to the vast majority of international (and domestic) graduates who worked hard not only for their place at that university, but also worked hard to attain their degree.
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    (Original post by chidona)
    Really, the way your post was written, it just came off as a rant against 'internationals' (although my 'ethnics' remark, aside from being a blatant parody and exaggeration, carried the same implicit meaning, but if you want to split hairs that's fine).

    Fwiw as well, I'd posit that actually, on balance, there really aren't that many of those 'Rolex rattlers' at the top unis. Sure they might be rich, but I'd suggest to you that being rich and also being honest and hard working are not mutually exclusive character traits. As I've already said (and as 4 people seem to take affront to without saying why) there are, of course, people who will cheat their way through university (usually getting caught at some point). But to suggest that the uni is basically handing out firsts and 2:i's by blatant cheating is utterly absurd and is really insulting to the vast majority of international (and domestic) graduates who worked hard not only for their place at that university, but also worked hard to attain their degree.
    Culture != ethnicity - it's a side issue anyway.

    Here's the TSR thread that got my goat up in the first place (couldn't find it before) http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...ing%20epidemic



    We won't know who's cheating til there's some sort of vaguely standardised effort at detection across unis - the way things are now, how can you know it's usual for people to get caught? The figures used by the telegraph are all over the place - Cambridge students 12 times more honest than Oxford? - pretty unlikely imo.



    afraid the cheats (not me) are crapping on everyones degrees until the unis get their act together, if they dare.
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    (Original post by Joinedup)
    afraid the cheats (not me) are crapping on everyones degrees until the unis get their act together, if they dare.
    I agree with you that a standardised detection system would be ideal; turnitin is probably best placed to be that tool (and by the by, a quick google and talking to a friend who goes to Oxford suggests that Oxford does use turnitin, although I'm not sure if it's enforced across all departments). However, I don't think that, relative to the total number of graduates, those who cheat (and 'get away' with it) constitute a large enough group to devalue everyone's degrees. Regardless of what the Telegraph says.
 
 
 
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