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Will britain ever leave the EU watch

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    You know we give a lot to the EU but we get a lot back aswell in subsidies and all sorts. Farmers for example get huge amounts of money from the EU, so does agriculture, fisihing, educatio etc... Infact the a few months ago my college had to apply for a grant from the EU because they were running out of funds and they were awarded a hefty sum of money. So lets not be to hasty to leave something that is quite clearly working to our advantage.
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    (Original post by U.S Lecce)
    You know we give a lot to the EU but we get a lot back aswell in subsidies and all sorts. Farmers for example get huge amounts of money from the EU, so does agriculture, fisihing, educatio etc... Infact the a few months ago my college had to apply for a grant from the EU because they were running out of funds and they were awarded a hefty sum of money. So lets not be to hasty to leave something that is quite clearly working to our advantage.
    Don't forget all those lovely market regulations too. Oh how much they're helping the economy grow...
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    (Original post by Er-El)
    No I meant British politicians in government wanted to be part of the EEC for that reason.
    sure, there were fears that it would develop into a political power, but britain's motives for joining were primarily economic.

    So long as we can still get into free trade agreements with the EU, then it still doesn't outweigh the advantages of doing away with all that ridiculous amount of market regulations imposed by Brussels - especially when Westminster has no say on them - which is stifling growth.
    lol, this is an absolute nonsense argument.

    if britain was outside of the EU it would still need to regulate the areas that the EU does for it, e.g. environmental/consumer regulations.

    how much more would that cost the UK? BIS estimated that if it was to opt out from the Working Time Directive, for example, it would cost the UK an extra 20bn annually for that alone.

    and you do realise that only 31% of the costs britain incurs as a result of regulation is related to europe? (source: BIS 2010)
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    (Original post by x=o)
    sure, there were fears that it would develop into a political power, but britain's motives for joining were primarily economic.



    lol, this is an absolute nonsense argument.

    if britain was outside of the EU it would still need to regulate the areas that the EU does for it, e.g. environmental/consumer regulations.

    how much more would that cost the UK? BIS estimated that if it was to opt out from the Working Time Directive, for example, it would cost the UK an extra 20bn annually for that alone.

    and you do realise that only 31% of the costs britain incurs as a result of regulation is related to europe? (source: BIS 2010)
    That's quite a lot.
    And the TPA put the cost of EU at £120bn on the economy, you do realise that right?

    Absolute nonsense.

    And the Working Time Directive is just another pointless law. It assumes everyone is the same rather than letting workers negotiate their own holidays or taking their business elsewhere, people were doing just fine before the law.
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    (Original post by Er-El)
    That's quite a lot.
    not really? you've only just claimed that regulation stifles growth, yet 69% of regulation is domestic. as for the other 31%, britain would have to enforce it itself if it left the EU at an even greater cost.

    And the TPA put the cost of EU at £120bn on the economy, you do realise that right?

    Absolute nonsense.
    120bn a year, or since britain joined the EU? very dodgy figure but I'll go along with it anyway (link would be nice actually, even though the TSA's credibility is through the floor). you do realise that gross costs/contributions are entirely irrelevant to an argument about staying within the EU, don't you?

    And the Working Time Directive is just another pointless law. It assumes everyone is the same rather than letting workers negotiate their own holidays or taking their business elsewhere, people were doing just fine before the law.
    I'm talking about economic facts here, i.e. how much worse off britain would be if it left. I am not asking what you think about a particular regulation or law.
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    (Original post by x=o)
    not really? you've only just claimed that regulation stifles growth, yet 69% of regulation is domestic. as for the other 31%, britain would have to enforce it itself if it left the EU at an even greater cost.



    120bn a year, or since britain joined the EU? very dodgy figure but I'll go along with it anyway (link would be nice actually, even though the TSA's credibility is through the floor). you do realise that gross costs/contributions are entirely irrelevant to an argument about staying within the EU, don't you?



    I'm talking about economic facts here, i.e. how much worse off britain would be if it left. I am not asking what you think about a particular regulation or law.
    Citation: http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/Cos...opeanUnion.pdf

    Now you show me your source.
    And actually, most of those regulations we could do without. There's also the excessive carbon taxes to consider too. We have no say on any of this, because what the Commission wants, the Commission gets... or shall I say the real authority in this corrupt organisation, the EU Council...
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    (Original post by Er-El)
    Citation: http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/Cos...opeanUnion.pdf

    Now you show me your source.
    And actually, most of those regulations we could do without. There's also the excessive carbon taxes to consider too. We have no say on any of this, because what the Commission wants, the Commission gets... or shall I say the real authority in this corrupt organisation, the EU Council...
    that's what you use as your independent, objective, impartial source? this is the kind of garbage that you base your opinions on?

    A summary of The Great European Rip-Off: How the corrupt, wasteful EU is taking control of our lives?

    is it actually suggesting that the EU costs the british taxpayer £1,000bn per year?! the budget is only around £100bn!

    --OBR (2010) Budget forecast june 2010
    --hmtreasury (2009) European Community Finances, statement on the 2009 EC budget and measures to counter fraud and financial mismanagement.
    --EFTA (2009) This is EFTA
    --Norweigan Ministry of Foreign Affairs (2009) Norway and the EU
    --European Commission (2007) Steps towards a deeper economic integration: the internal market in the 21st century
    --BIS (2010) written submission to the HoL single market enquity @ www.parliament.uk
    --London Economics (2002), Quantification of the macroeconomic impact of integration of EU financial markets
    --Copenhagen Economics (2004), Economic effects of tax cooperation in an enlarged European Union Simulations of corporate tax harmonisation and savings tax coordination.
    --Copenhagen Economics (2005) Economic assessment of the barriers to the internal market in services
    --Copenhagen Economics (2008) the potential economic benefit to the UK from implementation of the adopted services directive - quantitative analysis by Copenhagen economics, study for the department for business and regulatory reform
    --Open Europe (2010) Still out of control? Measuring eleven years of EU regulation
    --Civitas (2004) A cost too far? an analysis of the net economic costs and benefits for the UK of EU memberhip
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    (Original post by x=o)
    that's what you use as your independent, objective, impartial source? this is the kind of garbage that you base your opinions on?

    A summary of The Great European Rip-Off: How the corrupt, wasteful EU is taking control of our lives?

    is it actually suggesting that the EU costs the british taxpayer £1,000bn per year?! the budget is only around £100bn!

    --OBR (2010) Budget forecast june 2010
    --hmtreasury (2009) European Community Finances, statement on the 2009 EC budget and measures to counter fraud and financial mismanagement.
    --EFTA (2009) This is EFTA
    --Norweigan Ministry of Foreign Affairs (2009) Norway and the EU
    --European Commission (2007) Steps towards a deeper economic integration: the internal market in the 21st century
    --BIS (2010) written submission to the HoL single market enquity @ www.parliament.uk
    --London Economics (2002), Quantification of the macroeconomic impact of integration of EU financial markets
    --Copenhagen Economics (2004), Economic effects of tax cooperation in an enlarged European Union Simulations of corporate tax harmonisation and savings tax coordination.
    --Copenhagen Economics (2005) Economic assessment of the barriers to the internal market in services
    --Copenhagen Economics (2008) the potential economic benefit to the UK from implementation of the adopted services directive - quantitative analysis by Copenhagen economics, study for the department for business and regulatory reform
    --Open Europe (2010) Still out of control? Measuring eleven years of EU regulation
    --Civitas (2004) A cost too far? an analysis of the net economic costs and benefits for the UK of EU memberhip
    All of those figures were sourced by more or less the same governmental and non-governmental organisations that you just listed.

    Look, the EU is just rubbish. We'd all be better off if we if we had a proper free trade agreement for the free movement of people, goods, and services. What we don't need is excessive taxation and regulation, and especially at a time when we're in desperate need of growth. Successive governments have always preached about reducing regulation and the burden on the markets as much as possible, but the EU organisation has more often than not been an obstacle of this and continues to constantly introduce new ones.
    The idea of the EEC didn't work because it's not really a common market that they've established, but you've got unified legislations being forced across very dissimilar economies. The reason a common market works across the UK, or Canada, US, Australia, UAE, or big countries like China, is because they actually have a common market (same interest rates, economic cycles, currency, and stuff). Now if the EU organisation was more up front and honest about its ideal utopia and invited European states to join through democratic consent of the people, and this is what it was actually trying to accomplish, then perhaps EU sceptics such as myself would be in the minority. What I don't appreciate is its secretive nature and using fabian tactics to sneak through more and more integration towards something where we don't even know where they're going.
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    (Original post by Er-El)
    All of those figures were sourced by more or less the same governmental and non-governmental organisations that you just listed.

    Look, the EU is just rubbish. We'd all be better off if we if we had a proper free trade agreement for the free movement of people, goods, and services. What we don't need is excessive taxation and regulation, and especially at a time when we're in desperate need of growth. Successive governments have always preached about reducing regulation and the burden on the markets as much as possible, but the EU organisation has more often than not been an obstacle of this and continues to constantly introduce new ones.
    The idea of the EEC didn't work because it's not really a common market that they've established, but you've got unified legislations being forced across very dissimilar economies. The reason a common market works across the UK, or Canada, US, Australia, UAE, or big countries like China, is because they actually have a common market (same interest rates, economic cycles, currency, and stuff). Now if the EU organisation was more up front and honest about its ideal utopia and invited European states to join through democratic consent of the people, and this is what it was actually trying to accomplish, then perhaps EU sceptics such as myself would be in the minority. What I don't appreciate is its secretive nature and using fabian tactics to sneak through more and more integration towards something where we don't even know where they're going.
    no they weren't, at all. i've already addressed most of this *******s in my previous posts.

    i'm done, goodbye.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Maybe. Depends though. If we left we lose trade benefits so it would require free trade agreements. Which could be difficult to get.
    We're a net importer to the continent and one of europes biggest economies. I don't think it'd be particularly difficult to get those contracts.

    What would be difficult is leaving. I don't think it will happen.
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    (Original post by U.S Lecce)
    You know we give a lot to the EU but we get a lot back aswell in subsidies and all sorts. Farmers for example get huge amounts of money from the EU, so does agriculture, fisihing, educatio etc... Infact the a few months ago my college had to apply for a grant from the EU because they were running out of funds and they were awarded a hefty sum of money. So lets not be to hasty to leave something that is quite clearly working to our advantage.
    We are net contributors. We effectively pay for our own subsidies. And to suggest farmers and fishermen have anything to thank the EU for is absurd. Haven't you read about the decline of both industries in recent decades as a direct result of the CAP and CFP?

    Your college might have more money if we were not paying billions into the EU and spending billions implementing EU diktats.

    The EU is quite clearly not working to our advantage.
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    No. Too many trade benefits, and the rights conferred via the HRA are too important to just disregard.
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    (Original post by x=o)
    sure, there were fears that it would develop into a political power, but britain's motives for joining were primarily economic.

    lol, this is an absolute nonsense argument.

    if britain was outside of the EU it would still need to regulate the areas that the EU does for it, e.g. environmental/consumer regulations.

    how much more would that cost the UK? BIS estimated that if it was to opt out from the Working Time Directive, for example, it would cost the UK an extra 20bn annually for that alone.

    and you do realise that only 31% of the costs britain incurs as a result of regulation is related to europe? (source: BIS 2010)
    Who says Britain would need to regulate the areas it does for the EU? I think it far more likely that we'd come to a mutually beneficial agreement. The trade balance would see to that.

    And a government agency's figures are no trustworthy than a private organisation's.
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    (Original post by draikzer)
    No. Too many trade benefits, and the rights conferred via the HRA are too important to just disregard.
    Trade would continue as before if we left. And the EU can stick its humans rights legislation for as long as it protects the rights of rapists and murders and forgets those extradited on dodgy European Arrest Warrants.
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    Trade would continue as before if we left. And the EU can stick its humans rights legislation for as long as it protects the rights of rapists and murders and forgets those extradited on dodgy European Arrest Warrants.
    Oh. I forgot TSR didn't regard criminals as humans.

    Seriously, stop reading The Sun/Daily Fail.

    The HRA isn't perfect. But it protects the rights of citizens probably as well or better than anything the current government could do - and it upholds and hold account our own legislation very well.

    People make it seem like it allows rapists into their houses to touch their children. Jesus...
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    Who says Britain would need to regulate the areas it does for the EU? I think it far more likely that we'd come to a mutually beneficial agreement. The trade balance would see to that.

    And a government agency's figures are no trustworthy than a private organisation's.
    do you actually have any idea what the EU regulates?
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    (Original post by draikzer)
    Oh. I forgot TSR didn't regard criminals as humans.

    Seriously, stop reading The Sun/Daily Fail.

    The HRA isn't perfect. But it protects the rights of citizens probably as well or better than anything the current government could do - and it upholds and hold account our own legislation very well.

    People make it seem like it allows rapists into their houses to touch their children. Jesus...
    Let's not get melodramatic. I didn't say criminals are not human.

    The Human Rights Act is far from perfect. It protects the rights of criminals who are very definitely humans, but is the human who would rape and leave for for dead a student so badly beaten she looked like she'd been in a car accident? Or the human who'd take and axe to kill a defenceless old lady? Are they the kind of humans you would want to have any influence on our democracy? I suppose like Ken Clarke, you think it will "broaden their minds"?

    I don't waste my time reading tabloids, and any newspaper should be read with a very critical eye.
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    (Original post by x=o)
    do you actually have any idea what the EU regulates?
    Yes. I do.
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    Yes. I do.
    go on then, do tell us... :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by x=o)
    go on then, do tell us... :rolleyes:
    Why don't you tell? :rolleyes:
 
 
 
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